Nicodemus Doloroso Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Or Commissars may well have 6" or 12" bubbles within which troops get certain bonuses. That's how AoS seems to work, plus characters cannot be targeted if there is a unit within a certain distance of them. So if that's the case commissars will be fine and may significantly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Commissars could be an exception and just become part of the unit when bought, kind of like an upgrade? I really hope that characters not joining units is fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 The Faeit article from today with the supposed changes was updated to say it was fake or at least someone just extrapolating from AoS rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 In AoS you don't actually join a unit but in reality, if you are close to that unit you basically are attached. I'd say some kind of LD bubble is a good call, or a Maximum of 1 casualty from Battleshock for a unit if the Commissar uses his "command ability" in the "hero phase" analogue perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 A good change to Platoons would be for them to count as more than a single troops choice. Looking at the new info on Detachments in 8th, for the Brigade Detachment you need 6 troops. Sure would be nice if that didn't mean at least 150 infantry for Guard using Platoons! Really I don't see a reason why each squad shouldn't count as a single troops choice, that are still able to combine together, with the PCS being a sort of Platoon Tax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 The the new post also mentioned "imperium" which if that's anything like the Castellans detachment in GS1 you can pad that out with some Marines and other imperium troop choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Marshal Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 The the new post also mentioned "imperium" which if that's anything like the Castellans detachment in GS1 you can pad that out with some Marines and other imperium troop choices.Also mentioned 'Blood Angel' so it seems they'll be going the route of giving you more Command Points if you stick to say... "your army only includes models with the Astra Militarum tag." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 A good change to Platoons would be for them to count as more than a single troops choice. Looking at the new info on Detachments in 8th, for the Brigade Detachment you need 6 troops. Sure would be nice if that didn't mean at least 150 infantry for Guard using Platoons! Really I don't see a reason why each squad shouldn't count as a single troops choice, that are still able to combine together, with the PCS being a sort of Platoon Tax? Yeah I saw this too, and it made me a bit sad because it means I might have to compromise and go against my generally-held belief that veterans as a troops choice is heresy. That said, it would take me decades to paint that many models. The the new post also mentioned "imperium" which if that's anything like the Castellans detachment in GS1 you can pad that out with some Marines and other imperium troop choices. And this would include taking Militarum Tempestus Scions (assuming they are have their own seperate army/sub-faction under 8th) to fill things out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 So, lets talk Platoons and the new to wound chart. I currently shoot at marines a lot with my Platoons, wounding on 5's. I'm sure you all do this as well! Well we still wound Marines on a 5, Cultists etc on a 4 (grots on 3's!) but now.... now we wound everything else on a measly 6! This is huge for the utility of Platoons isn't it? When that pesky Dreadnaught drops behind my lines and I FRFSRF (orders aren't going away surely, certainly not THAT one) with my 20 man blob, for me that's 18 Lasguns, so 36 shots (assuming rapid fire is toned down in 8th, or it might be 54 shots). Of those 18 hit, 3 wound and one isn't saved. A wound! On a Dreadnaught! Ok so it's hardly game breaking but I like it. Now let's talk Platoons and the new "Split fire for all" rule. More interesting I think, does this change the standard weapon options at all or does hitting on a 4 still mean it's Autocannon, Heavy Bolters, Flamers and Grenade Launchers as standard? Exciting times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Orders may stay, but not necessarily the same for all we know but the new split fire gives Infantry Squads a great boost with embedded HWTs - the main problem vanishing! Sadly this means that HWSs look even worse for it (didn't think that was possible, did you? ) but I'm sure that will be rectified within the Guard rules somehow. I think it opens up weapon choice nicely as you no longer need to think about what you're shooting as much but the problem is more to do with the cost and relevant gain in my opinion. Plasma is as expensive for a Guardsman as it is a Marine with less to show for it for example, hopefully we can see this corrected. Fishing for 6s is a viable tactic sometimes, especially if you have fire power to spare, so this is a boon to the humble Guardsman. With the increase in wounds compared to Hull Points it won't have a huge effect but it'll definitely be something to remember as an ace up your sleeve or when things get desperate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Theyre all indirect buffs because they want to give infantry a place again, fortunately because guard has so many its almost a force multiplier for us! :D These changes are going to make me finish my Mordians off and fix all the paint chips, not to mention remodel my Cadian SGTs with power fists... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 The new split fire rules are a huge boon to platoons too. Being able to hide lascannons in squads that can still target vehicles and stuff is great. And while the lascannons go tank hunting, all those lasguns can target enemy infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthWaffle Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Sounds like defensive platoons are still going to be powerful. I guess the question is more blob or less blob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Sounds like defensive platoons are still going to be powerful. I guess the question is more blob or less blob. To me with how the "Retreat" mechanic and layered assault / firing lines works individual squads seem more viable. Although now everything gets split fire there is less risk of a a squad over killing a single 10 man squad as they 1 enemy squad could fire on multiple in one phase. So perhaps there will be a good trade off between 10 man vs blob... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 I'm inclined to go blob + screen. Probably add my old penal squad as the 4th squad in the platoon, leave them unblobbed, and about 4 inches in front. Let them get the emperor's redemption by taking the first charge, survivors fall back, then FRSR the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 I really hope the answer is that both will be viable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 To me with how the "Retreat" mechanic and layered assault / firing lines works individual squads seem more viable. Although now everything gets split fire there is less risk of a a squad over killing a single 10 man squad as they 1 enemy squad could fire on multiple in one phase. So perhaps there will be a good trade off between 10 man vs blob... Another thing that's not been mentioned that will really give our basic grunts a boost is that they now get their full 5+ save versus bolters, since bolters do not have any AP value this edition. Granted, it's still a 5+, but that 1/3 fewer models dying, statistically, to each round of bolter fire than before. Considering the amount of AP5 weaponry out there, that's tantamount to being able to bring a bunch more guardsmen for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 There's so much we don't know and it's killing me, release the rulebook already! If we do see a change to orders / commissars / priests etc and they can effect multiple squads in a set radius (which is suspect will be the case, orders being the probable exception) than individual squads would be looking good. I really do hope Plasma guns, Power fists etc become cheaper for guard, it's such a no brainer! With the retreat rules Slab shield Bullgryns will be great in front of a Platoon. Probably giving them a boost to cover in some way as they do now but they could take a charge, probably do fairly well in combat, run for it letting the Platoon fire and then be ready to take a charge again in the next turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Krash Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I have a strong feeling Ogryns are going to get better this edition. To at least be guards dedicated Melee/front line support unit as they should be. Krash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Just had a thought: imagine Platoons of everything? Vet Platoons, Ogryn Platoons... Rough Rider Platoons. A man can dream of the full gamut of regiment types? That aside, let's not forget we're only hearing BRB (soon to be LRB?) stuff so any and all of the faction/model rules are subject to change. The more unique things like the slab shields and Ratling's movement rules are potential victims of the streamlining process I'd wager. I'm confident enough that the rules will be fine from what I know already - at least an improvement most likely - so now I'm keen to find out codex specifics. Unfortunately I think we've a bit of a wait before we see anything there, assuming we get anything of note before the official release that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I was surprised that the shiny and expensive new Bullgryns and Scions were so lacklustre rules wise when they were released. GW policy at the time was to release anything new with deadly rules to try and make them a must buy. I'd love Og/Bullgryns to be good in the new edition, and I too suspect they will be, just looking at the rules previews so far. *steeples fingers* "Eeeexcellent...." I don't know... when the free rules for individual units were released at the start of AoS most of the special rules and equipment you'd expect had an equivalent on the units warscroll. I see no reason that on the Ratling "warscroll" there won't be a rule saying they get a free run move after firing, or on the Bullgryn "warscroll" there not being a rule about Slabshields adding one to cover to units behind them. Or something similar. I think we'll need to wait until the Codex come out to get other things like Regiment specific rules (please?), but basic unit rules will survive the transition I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 Just up: Characters https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/09/new-warhammer-40000-characters-may9gw-homepage-post-4/ So no more IC's as we know it...but bubbles/AoE for everyone and characters with less than 10W (every IG character ever?) can NOT be targeted in the Shooting phase unless they are the mode closest to an enemy unit. I think Commissars are back on the menu, boys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Command Squads not cowering in Chimeras to gain some small semblance of safety as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Could be quite useful, though unless they do something won't help CSs as they stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Guard officers were never IC's aside from Lord Commissars and 3rd edition commissars so I'm not sure whether this impacts us or not. Depends on whether command squads change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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