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hopes, dreams, and fears for sisters in 8th


912 replies to this topic

#1
micahwc

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Just curious what people think sisters will get, what people hope sisters get, and what people are afraid the sisters will get in 8th edition.

 

Me personally, I'm hoping that the changes to vehicles will make penitent engines better. GW released the profile for space marine dreadnoughts, and they have 7 toughness, 8 wounds, and 3+ save. I assume the penitent engine will be similar. I'm guessing less wounds total, but harder to wound than the dreadnought.

 

My other hope is that exorcists can be fielded in squadrons.

 

What about y'all?


The Codex Astartes no doubt has guidance that covers that kind of situation - long, detailed advice that would essentially boil down to "shoot the choppy ones, chop the shooty ones".


#2
Commander Dawnstar

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I'm hoping that the total shake-up brought about with the new edition makes it easier for GW to cost models appropriately and actually put some daylight between Battle Sisters and Space Marines rather than the current two points. It certainly wouldn't be the end of the world if they didn't, but one of my current bugbears with 40k is how we have so many basic infantry units crammed into the 10-14 point region despite the huge differences between their stats and equipment.

 

I hope the new edition will breathe some new life into our glass cannon melee units like Penitent Engines and Repentia. Certainly the move to allowing charging units to strike first is huge for Repentia but if they're still going to be shot to pieces before getting anywhere near close combat then it's not that much of a boon. The new Dwarfs in AoS can assault out of transports so you never know ...

 

I think the big thing for me really is that a new edition gives GW the design space to start thinking about what they actually want the identity of the Sisters to be and to finally update our list from being something of a hold-over from previous editions of the game. Maybe we'll see some things that hint at the direction of what's to come in the future or see some changes that actually make units like Celestians worth considering and open up our army builds beyond the tried and tested "best" options. It'd be nice.


Edited by Brightstar, 26 April 2017 - 01:56 PM.

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#3
BlISSP

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sadly, flamer templates will get out : https://www.warhamme...-40000-weapons/

 

it's  .  . . sad

 

and the sacred bolter lost every kind of AP


Edited by BlISSP, 26 April 2017 - 02:45 PM.


#4
micahwc

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Did you see that flamers do D6 hits on a unit, even if the unit is only 1 model? I think it may be a bit more versatile. It will average 3.5 hits per shot, which is probably pretty close to what the template averages. So, a standard 5 gal unit with flamer and heavy flamer will average 7 wounds from the flamers.

 

Interesting that a las-cannon can't kill a dreadnought in a single shot (max 6 of 8 wounds), but a lucky 5 gal battle sister squad can with just flamers and bolters. The las-cannon is more dependable based on strength and range, but will require three unsaved hits with average damage rolls to kill.

 

Edit: the 20 lady bolter squad is potentially dangerous to vehicles.


Edited by micahwc, 26 April 2017 - 03:01 PM.

The Codex Astartes no doubt has guidance that covers that kind of situation - long, detailed advice that would essentially boil down to "shoot the choppy ones, chop the shooty ones".


#5
Commander Dawnstar

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Now that it's finally been put in context I'm not really sure how I feel about Flamers in a post-template world. Obviously Exorcists have prepared us somewhat for having to deal with highly variable damage outputs, but changing the Flamer so that it's less effective against big units but more effective against smaller ones seems more than a little thematically unfitting.

 

In a sense it's nice that your template weapons never have to get closer than 8" to be firing at full effectiveness and that some lucky rolls can make certain situations far more favourable than they were before, but I'm not terribly keen on how we've swapped out positioning and the risk-reward of needing to get right in the enemy's face for RNG.


Edited by Brightstar, 26 April 2017 - 03:08 PM.

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#6
Beams

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Considering most of my army is flamers and meltas, it's going to be real interesting to see how everything goes down...

#7
Servant of Dante

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I'm really glad the bolter doesn't have a save mod. If it did we'd hardly ever get our 3+, this way, armour might actually be GOOD now without invulns.

I'm sad about losing the flame template, but looking forward to rolling 5d6 hits with my command squad. It's a little un-thematic, but I can deal with it.

I hope the exorcist is nasty enough! Hopefully it has a higher T than a rhino.

Edited by Servant of Dante, 26 April 2017 - 05:03 PM.


#8
Beams

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I'm really glad the bolter doesn't have a save mod. If it did we'd hardly ever get our 3+, this way, armour might actually be GOOD now without invulns.

I'm sad about losing the flame template, but looking forward to rolling 5d6 hits with my command squad.

I hope the exercist is nasty enough!

Ideally, it's be 1d6 shots each doing 1d3 damage, considering they are supposed to be anti vehicle...

Edited by Beams, 26 April 2017 - 05:03 PM.

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#9
Ficinus

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I feel like this new system for flamers essentially destroys the combat effectiveness of 4 heavy flamer Retributor squads.  In the current rules, you can run an Immolator or Rhino (or Repressor) up close to even a small unit and easily get twenty hits.  In recent games, I've been able to get close to twenty hits with two heavy flamers on a cultist squad hiding behind cover and over forty hits with all four against an ambushing Genestealer squad.  Now, the average will be fourteen hits from all four Sisters.  I can't see running them for anything but fluff reasons.


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#10
Commander Dawnstar

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I feel like this new system for flamers essentially destroys the combat effectiveness of 4 heavy flamer Retributor squads.  In the current rules, you can run an Immolator or Rhino (or Repressor) up close to even a small unit and easily get twenty hits.  In recent games, I've been able to get close to twenty hits with two heavy flamers on a cultist squad hiding behind cover and over forty hits with all four against an ambushing Genestealer squad.  Now, the average will be fourteen hits from all four Sisters.  I can't see running them for anything but fluff reasons.

 

Funnily enough I was going to make exactly the same point earlier but decided against it. I too had a game a couple of weeks back where my Retributors managed 27 hits against a Cult unit and barbecued them all along with their Magus, and that was before the Superior got to bring her Combi-Flamer to bear. Doesn't really seem worth it if they could be getting (on average) a similar level of effectiveness from Heavy Bolters at a much safer range.


Edited by Brightstar, 26 April 2017 - 05:16 PM.

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#11
hunterkiler86

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looks like i might have to switch out my meltaguns for flamers in the near future.



#12
Servant of Dante

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It is what it is, honestly. Yes, it's a nerf against large squads, but now we can try and use them to put down smaller units with heavy armour through weight of fire.

Also, maybe now we won't have to stick flamers at the fronts of squads anymore, which would be really nice.

I advocate positivity, or at least maintaining decorum and keeping negetivity to a minimum. We're going to get to keep playing our Sisters, with up to date rules no less.

Edited by Servant of Dante, 26 April 2017 - 05:19 PM.


#13
Commander Dawnstar

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I feel like early 8th might, and obviously this is purely baseless speculation, be a little bit unpleasant for us simply because we haven't got an especially varied arsenal. Template and Melta weapons are essentially the core of our list and we haven't got a whole lot to fall back on if they end up a little lackluster. Naturally the same goes both ways and we might end up in a good spot if Melta is horrible death for big stuff and the new Flamers actually turn out pretty well. It's very much a wait and see thing.

 

And who knows: maybe new/reworked Acts of Faith, changes to points costs and any manner of other rules changes could compensate for whatever we lose even if things don't totally go our way.


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#14
Servant of Dante

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Honestly, I'll happily keep playing even if we do end up in a subpar place. Sisters haven't been competitive for a long time, much longer than I've been playing 40K :P

It'd be nice to be actually competitive, but it's not overly important to me.

#15
Captain_Krash

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Seems like the Repressor won't be usable in 8th at all

 

Krash


Ad Victoriam


#16
Machine God

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I advocate positivity, or at least maintaining decorum and keeping negetivity to a minimum. We're going to get to keep playing our Sisters, with up to date rules no less.

But still with metal modelsmsn-wink.gif


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#17
Beaky Brigade

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Who knows, certain units or armies may get buffs to flamers as part of their basic rules, so we may not be seeing the full picture.



#18
wraithman

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Flamers should get some kind of benny when dealing with units under cover. Anyone whom says otherwise I would suggest they talk to old Marines whom used them in 'Nam, or better still against the Japanese when they were holed up in armoured pillboxes. Flamers should also call for a Ld roll of some sort for the unit being targeted with them, as fear of fire is instinctive for any living thing. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm applying RL for a game, but I remember using them in my old Squad Leader games, and those checks were made. On the downside, flametroopers in RL had a short life expectancy as they were first priority to be sniped off. On the plus side, I like the thought that all weapons are going to have a use in the game again, as now there'll be a reason to equip units with things other than just a few choices.

 

Hope: We get our own Codex all to ourselves as is right and proper, with all our actual characters back in it (including real rules for Ephrael Stern)

 

Wishes: Give us Repressors, and actual choices to fill out all of the slots in our army.

 

Fears: The usual: we'll either get nerfed or squatted. Although the fact we got something printed (not some online thingy, but actual dead-tree-and-ink) for Imperial Agents and the Shadow War Armageddon tells me the latter won't happen. GW seems to be listening to their old customers.



#19
sedibear

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I doubt we'll get the Tomb Kings/Brettonia treatment.

 

Then again


All you need is a little faith and a little fire.

 

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#20
Beams

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I'm hoping we have acts of faith to increase our flame spam effectiveness. Like spend a command point to add 2 to all flamers rolls, or rrroll flamers rolls. Or flamers get shred...

Plus, can't wait to see heavy flamer rules and pengine rules... and st. Celetibe.

#21
Servant of Dante

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I advocate positivity, or at least maintaining decorum and keeping negetivity to a minimum. We're going to get to keep playing our Sisters, with up to date rules no less.

But still with metal modelsmsn-wink.gif

 

but I like the metal range, so I really don't mind :D


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#22
Ficinus

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I'm all for the metal models remaining, but I do hope for plastic penitent engines.
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#23
Red_Shift

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This morning my grishnak models arrived and they are beautiful. Plastic sisters would be awesome.

My wish for the next edition is a properly supported sisters line. That is all.

#24
Beams

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I'm all for the metal models remaining, but I do hope for plastic penitent engines.


Please, for the love of god, plastic pengines. They are one of my favorite models, but suck horribly to put them together.

I'm all for the metal models remaining, but I do hope for plastic penitent engines.


Please, for the love of god, plastic pengines. They are one of my favorite models, but suck horribly to put them together.

#25
Montford981

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It would make sense that vehicle mounted heavy flamers on an Immolator would have a longer range than a heavy flamer that can be carried by a Sister. A vehicle has the room to carry equipment which would be able to expel the promethium at higher velocity.


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