Praetorian Guard Ideas

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Well, fresh off a tournament where I had a ton of fun and encountered some great thematic armies, I've been inspired to start working on a real "hobby army" with lots of conversions. And I think a return to my very first army ever -- Praetorian Guard (who I foolishly sold when I got sick of being crushed all the time in early 3rd edition) -- is the ticket in this regard!

 

Plus the wave of support I got for the idea when I mentioned it in another thread gave me even more inspiration.

 

Obviously, with 8th edition near, I'm going to hold-off a bit before I start getting too serious about planning an army, but in the mean time, nothing should stop me from brainstorming, getting ideas on what bitz and models to use, and to start building some standard infantry platoon troops since no matter what they do in 8th I'll need lots of those.

 

I'd like to ultimately build a display board that's a bit of a diorama inspired by Rorke's Drift. So I'd like to have a platoon, maybe too, defending mealie bag redoubts, around a couple buildings as the core. I'm thinking having a genestealer onslought would be cool.

 

1. Basic Troops

 

Not as obvious a choice as I originally thought! I thought there was but one option but apparently not ... Options as I currently see them:

 

a. Victoria Lamb - They look great, and there are a variety of bitz available; but in another thread it was mentioned that the scaling is a bit off? Are they big compared to GW Praetorians, or big compared to Cadians? I'd like to mix-and-match with Cadian and even Catachan bitz to maximize individualization.

 

b. Col. Gravis - These look like they are intended to be "bashed" with Cadian kits, am I correct they fit perfecly with same? Sadly, they have no arms, so I'd be stuck with Cadian shoulder pads unless someone can suggest shoulder-pad-less arms from another third party?

 

2. Tanks

 

a. I've an idea that the new Kharadron Overlords flyers would make cool "skimmer" type tanks. I just can't decide what would work best as what ... the Ironclad looks beefy enough to be a Russ, but has side doors (could be covered with sponsons I guess). The frigate looks more befitting a Chimera but has no doors. I've not seen these kits in the flesh though so could someone suggest what would work with what?

 

b. Plus I have an ancient Empire Steam Tank in metal, and just realized that GW still sells them! Maybe a mixture of both the airships and steam-tank types? I was thinking that to minimize expensive purchases, I could mix-and-match together two tanks kits with two steam tanks and two airships to end up with four variants of Leman Russ. I was thinking that a bash of a steam tank with Russ treads and a Demolisher cannon would make a nice Thunderer.

 

Either way, any ideas on how to paint the vehicles?

 

3. Special Troops

 

a. I had an idea to do a squad of "big game hunters" either as Scions or Veterans. Use lots of the aforementioned Tyranid bits on them and really go crazy with customizations. Likely do one squad as such. Current Scion torsos would work well, or the Lifeguard torsos from Col. Gravis if I went the Scion route (I have lots of extra hotshot lasgun arms from my =][= project).

 

 

Seems about to cover it ... for now I'll just focus on the basic troopers and need to figure out what's the best setup bitz-wise for them. And what look to give them. On Lexicanum I saw this pic which is different than what I'm used to seeing but kind of neat -- maybe mix this look in with the unarmoured look for variety? (cf https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/d/d0/Praetorian_sgt_by_diegogisbertllorens.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140619031051)

 

Anyway, at the very early stages here, so hit me with all your ideas/suggestions!

[WarriorFish]

Victoria's would be my preference (I'll get some one day!), they're a bit smaller/skinnier than GW's Guardsmen though but I don't think it's a huge difference. For the vehicles perhaps a steel grey, or a tan colour would fit? You could add some red and white in areas for markings to help link the schemes?

[Formerly Wu]

Victoria's minis are excellent. The scaling is on the more realistic side of heroic, which means GW plastic bits can sometimes look a little overly big on them, but that's not a problem if you're not mixing too much. 

 

I haven't tried the Curious Constructs bits yet, although I plan to pick up a few on my next bit order. I would imagine a mix of Victoria's bits with a few of their variant torsos would create a nicely varied force!

 

The Arkanaut kits as skimmer vehicles sounds really cool, but I'd be worried about the Dwarf-specific detailing on them. Might take a bit of work to get it looking properly Imperial. Sounds like a worthy challenge.

 

I also love the idea of a Rorke's Drift scenario with Genestealers. Very cool!

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

@WF: are Victoria Lamb's miniatures as small/skinny as Forgeworld troops like Death Korps? Or somewhere in-between that and the Cadians?

 

Re: vehicles, I see from the old Big Toof River pictures, that the Praetorians had yellowish-tan coloured vehicles with red-white-and-blue markings. So that may be fitting. Any desert rats who can recommend (Citadel) paints: for reference:

 

http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2055/4_last_stand.jpg

 

@Formerly Wu: Yes, my plan is to pretty heavily convert the Arkonaut kits. They would form the basis for sure, but I'd be shaving/sanding off all the dwarf-like details and adding bitz from the tank kits (including, of course, the proper turret, hull, and sponson weapons). If it looks alright, put the actual turret and sponsons from the tank kits on.

 

I think I'll try mixing-and-matching bitz from the various lines and see how it goes. They come in 10s, plus I have about 20 or 30 unused Cadians that I've owned since the current kit first came out. So maybe if I buy 10 Curious Construct torsos and helmets, and a 10-man squad from Victoria I could do a 30-man platoon using a mixture of Cadian Torsos (for this look), as well.

 

Any suggestions on where to get some good bare heads? Those pith helmets can fall off in the heat of battle sometimes! Or maybe I'll do a hospital squad led by Cpl. Hook.

[Formerly Wu]

@WF: are Victoria Lamb's miniatures as small/skinny as Forgeworld troops like Death Korps? Or somewhere in-between that and the Cadians?

 

I'm not WF and haven't handled any Death Korps models, but my impression is they're in-between. Definitely still heroic scale, just not gorilla proportions.

 

 

Re: vehicles, I see from the old Big Toof River pictures, that the Praetorians had yellowish-tan coloured vehicles with red-white-and-blue markings. So that may be fitting. Any desert rats who can recommend (Citadel) paints: for reference:

 

I use Steel Legion Drab as a base/darker shade, and Tallarn Sand as the main color. Then shade with Agrax Earthshade and chip with Skaveblight Dinge. It's a bit more drab than what's in that image, but the effect is similar.

 

My favorite sources for heads are Mad Robot Miniatures, Puppetswar, and Victoria's Penal Legionnaires (with the forehead brands sanded off). I wouldn't recommend Maxmini for this project, as theirs are on the chunky side for a project like this.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Thanks Formerly Wu!

 

Mad Robot Miniatures has some awesome selections.

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, Victoria's aren't as skinny as DKoK but I'm sure you can find some comparison shots somewhere to get a good feel for them :) Tallarn Sand is a great colour too, and should fit neatly I reckon.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

By looking at this page, it appears that VIctoria's bitz fit almost perfectly with GW: http://gravengames.co.uk/victoria-miniatures-conversion-parts-review/

 

Perhaps just a little bit more slender but not much at all. I am feeling even more encouraged/excited about this project!

[Formerly Wu]

Glad to be of help! Looking forward to seeing the army once it's together.

[Captain Titus]

As someone else in the process of planning a Praetorian army, I would recommend the Victoria Miniatures range. They have a good variety and they are much cheaper than buying the old models off eBay. I am looking forward to purchasing their Captain Caine (Bromhead) model.

 

I too had an idea for a Rorkes drift themed board and I have discovered that Warlord games sells some useful looking Zulu themed terrain.

https://store.warlordgames.com/products/anglo-zulu-war-mealie-bag-barricade-set

[Stofficus]

As someone who has both a) Death Korps, and b) Victoria's Praetorians, they're comfortably in between, leaning more towards the GW side of thing - the guns most notably are nowhere near as gigantic, and the level of detail is simply beyond anything else in the 3rd party - some of the models have honest-to-cthulhu spectacles. Still completely kitbashable with normal Cadian kits, for the few nice parts, or the DKOK (I had a spare DK Company Commnder, chopped his head off, put on one of Vic's heads, boom, Praetorian commander)

 

Her resin caster is also, honestly, better than FW. I haven't had half the warping issues I've had with my DKOK with her line. 

 

So, if you're going for Praetorian style models, you can't beat Vic. 

[MithrilForge]

This sounds like a wonderful adventure and i wish you the best of luck with it.

whilst reading this thread and hearing Rorke's drift,duardin vehicles etc i thought of the Skitarii "Ranger" rifles with their ".303" look wooden stocks and still retaining that futuristic feeling as well, maybe worth a look at?...

The big game hunters sound Cool indeed moustaches and pith helmets must appear !

cheers, Mithril

[NatBrannigan]

I'm in the middle of panting up my Praetorians now. I was a bit more cowardly than you because I'm well out of practice with modelling so for the most part it's just simple head swaps. The Maximini pith heads work perfectly (after some minor neck trimming) with Cadian bodies and I was actually really pleased with the outcome. I'll get some pictures posted when I can.

 

The one thing I wish I'd done, and sill may, is add wheels to the Heavy weapons teams in place of the Tri-pod that comes with the GW plastic kit. I think Victoria miniatures sell suitable ones?

 

I've found some gems at various wargames conventions in the form of historical Victorian era miniatures. The best being a perfectly scaled metal model that's holding a cup of tea. A headswap and the addition various bits later and he's now my only non-GW miniature and is my Company Command Squads Vox operator! It doesn't get more British than that, and I often enjoy thinking about him sipping his tea and shaking his head disdainfully as a Carnifex barrels down on his unit.

 

For vehicle colour scheme I've gone for a fairly boring grey (similar to Col. Gravis) but was also considering a Navy blue and white. This was the uniform colour for Victorian era British artillerymen which I thought would look good and be quite fitting.

 

Next on the list in definitely the curious constructs Pith ogre heads for some Bullgryns.

 

A final word on the New Kharadon overlords boats, The Ironclad looks huge so may be a bit to big to represent a Leman Russ? I love that idea though, very steampunky.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Thanks for the input, comrades.

 

@Mithrilforge -- I completely forgot about the Skitarii stuff. Great suggestion. Do you know what those rifles are called so I can search them on eBay?

 

@NatBrannigan -- I would love to have a model holding a cup of tea. I was actually daydreaming about doing a company commander who is sitting at a field desk festooned with maps and papers and a cup of tea. I don't suppose you have any idea who made that model so I could try searching for it?

 

Yeah, the Ironclad looks pretty big, but I won't be sure until I see one in the flesh. But maybe a Frigate would work well. Do you think I could pull off a gunhauler as a chimera? Maybe I could just use the hull and the "balloon" and put some chimera bitz on the upper deck.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Mithrilforge, I'm assuming you mean the Galvanic rifles? Those can be had for a pretty decent price on eBay ... I think if I wanted to go all-out and swapped their power packs with lasgun power packs that would make them look more like lasguns than Skitarii rifles. It looks like that would be a fairly straight-forward conversion.

 

Maybe even keep the occasional Skitarii bionic arm to up the steampunk ante even more!

[Joe]

MaxMini, Mad Robot Miniatures and Secret Weapon are worth a look as well.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Thanks, Isinfier!

 

Anybody know where one can get regular, unbarded warhorses, for custom rough riders?

 

Victoria minis and Col. Gravis have Praetorian rough riders themselves but no horses for them to ride ...

[MithrilForge]

Thanks for the input, comrades.

@Mithrilforge -- I completely forgot about the Skitarii stuff. Great suggestion. Do you know what those rifles are called so I can search them on eBay?

@Nicodemus Doloroso - send me your Address in a PM and i'll send you a few arms and rifle combo's and the sniper rifle too(if i have a spare one) so you can test it out before you spend $$ on Flea bay

Cheers, Mithril

[NatBrannigan]

I'll have a look and try and find where that model came from but it was second hand when I got it. A Cup of Tea and a saucer should be fairly easy to greenstuff though? The only thing I've made is a crystal ball for a skink priest conversion, so.... a ball.... As I said my modelling skills aren't great.

 

I think I'd need to see the Kharadon ships in person as well, but in the mean time Lady Atia is working on some squats using those models as a base. I'm sure she has a WIP blog round here somewhere, or might start one if asked nicely.

 

The Skitarii rifles are a great shout! That would work well for your "hunting party" unit perhaps? Good old Lasguns work well for basic infantry I think :)

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

@mithrilforge -- thanks, that's very kind of you! PM sent!

 

@Nat Brannigan -- Oh, man, I don't know if my GS skills are equal to the task but I'll give it a whirl. I'll take a look for Atia's WIP blog, I'm pretty sure she has one. As for the Skitarii rifles, I'm inclined to "go whole hog" and give all the basic troops those rifles as well. It would sure give them a unique look and would really make them "pop". The rifles can be had for just under $0.50 per rifle on eBay.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

 

Anybody know where one can get regular, unbarded warhorses, for custom rough riders?

 

Victoria minis and Col. Gravis have Praetorian rough riders themselves but no horses for them to ride ...

 

I'm going to answer my own question and throw a link up here so I don't forget and I have a place to reference all my Praetorian resources. These look like reasonable rough rider horses and the scale appears to be right (it should be consider who is sculpting them!): https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_63&products_id=3297&osCsid=ba9mvcdp3qahc7s3lb9fdgre07

[NatBrannigan]

I hope you start your own WIP thread when you start, really looking forward to see how some of these ideas pan out.

 

Looking at what's just popped up on Warhammer Community you need to start work on a Praetorian themed Sly Marbo first though!

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

HA! I hadn't thought of that, but that would be a fun idea.

 

Come to think of it, starting with a Shadow War kill team would be a good way to get my first squad done.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Oh, and yes, I'll definitely do a WIP thread. I haven't had an active WIP thread going on this particular sub forum in years, but I do enjoy doing them. The BA successor chapter WIP in my signature has been ongoing for several years. 

 

In the mean-time I'm going to keep using this thread as a respository for my ideas since that's easier than writing them down elsewhere and trying to remember where I put it, plus also the comrades here can chip in with other ideas. To maximize individualism among my models, I think I will order a set of pith helmet heads from each of the main suppliers. As a result, there should not be very little duplication:

 

Max Mini (5 variants) - http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/head-swaps/pith-heads-bits

Mad Robot (5 variants) - https://madrobotminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_10&products_id=147&zenid=9mgfa3fp15oo1ia6e7b9asd2i1

Mad Robot bandaged heads for slightly wounded guys (5 variants) - https://madrobotminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_10&products_id=55&zenid=9mgfa3fp15oo1ia6e7b9asd2i1

Puppetswar (1 gas mask head variant -- good for melta/flamer troopers) - https://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=500 

Curious Constructs (5 variants)

Victoria Miniatures (11 variants) - http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/pith-helmet-heads-2

 

So that's a total of 32 different heads. Curious Constructs and Max Mini sell theirs in packs of two sprues, so if I bought one pack from each of the above-listed suppliers that would give me 42 heads with only 10 duplicates. That will be a highly individualized force! For more variety, I am thinking of doing heavy weapons teams with Kepis and navy/black uniforms as artillery or maybe paint them up as swabbies? I believe some of the weapons used in the Zulu war were actually naval guns and manned by naval crews. I've yet to see heads with seaman's caps on them though.

 

As for torsos, I can do a mix of:

 

Cadian

Victoria minis torsos - http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/5-victorian-torsos

Curious Constructs - Dress, Lancer (for officers) and Renegade torsos

 

Will probably go heavy on the Victoria Lamb torsos with a ratio of 2 Victoria Lamb for every 1 of something else. So only 1/6 of my troops will have dress uniforms, cadian armour, or the more dishevelled renegade look.

 

SPECIAL WEAPONS: I'm assuming the effectiveness of these won't change too much ... which do you think are most appropriate for Praetorians, or it doesn't matter and I should just go with a mix? I was thinking, tentatively, of giving the line squads all plasma and autocannons, then having "assault pioneer" special weapons teams with melta (Victoria Lamb's Fusion Guns are brilliant) and flamers.

[Stofficus]

What you could consider doing is using Cadian torsos for Stormtroopers/Carapace Veterans. 

 

I had a bunch of spare bits myself, and ended up using Vic's heads with Scion arms and cadian torsos to make some pretty decent Praetorian stormtroopers. Never got around to painting them, mind you, as my own project petered off after a while.