Calgar's Fury .... any good?

[Helias_Tancred]

Subject says it all. Same author as Siege. I like Calgar as a character and I'm on the fence about getting these books.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Prot]

I'm going to confess to something pretty funny or.... pretty sad depending on if you're me or not.

 

This entire time I thought we had a thread going on Calgar's Fury, but it turns out Calgar's Seige is also a new book that I thought Seahawk had misstyped in his thread. lol

 

I'm curious as well. Unfortunately it appears neither of the new books take place around the resurrection of Guilliman which is too bad because I imagine the Chaos fall out on Macragge must be just nasty and would test Calgar pretty good.

[Helias_Tancred]

Haha ...

 

I agree, it would be great to see a story from the perspective of Marneus Calgar about the coming of Cawl, Greyfax, the strange Eldar, etc and then the rise of Guilliman. I'd also like toi see it cover the start of the Black Legion attack through to the rise of the Primarch!

[Seahawk]

Well, I can tell you Calgar's Siege was quite good, so I expect the Fury to be similarly good. I'm waiting for paperback (October) so I won't be any help til then.

[Prot]

So bringing this back up as I'm finishing Dark Imperium and am considering this or Calgar's Seige. Anyone have any reviews yet?

[Ishagu]

I was going to pick the book up, but following Dark Imperium I really can't bring myself to do so.

 

Calgar has been reduced to a jealous, small man in the current lore. Gone is the selfless Warrior who's great achievements were simply out of duty, and not out of a need to seek glory.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Ishagu

[Captain Idaho]

I didn't get that from Calgar. I felt he seemed very human.

[Ishagu]

But he's not simply human. None of the Marines should feel too human in terms of emotions.

[Frater Cornelius]

But he's not simply human. None of the Marines should feel too human in terms of emotions.

But they are. Changing physiology does not make you less human in terms of emotions and metaphysical factors (let's call it that, theology is banned here after all :D).

[Captain Idaho]

Wouldn't it be rather boring if Marines were emotionless killing machines? They'd biological robots.

[Prot]

I was going to pick the book up, but following Dark Imperium I really can't bring myself to do so.

 

Calgar has been reduced to a jealous, small man in the current lore. Gone is the selfless Warrior who's great achievements were simply out of duty, and not out of a need to seek glory.

 

- I know what passages you're talking about. I think it's a very clever scene:

 

Towards the end of the book Calgar deeply hides his feelings about having the Lord of Ultramar title, and duties taken from him. On the surface you could say that this is 'too human', perhaps too selfish, or too short sighted. I really thought that was a very clever scene because Calgar knows, and truly feels elated at the reasoning behind it (the Primarch is back of course). But there's no way any person could perform that task.... such a monumental task for so long, thinking your Primarch is gone... your duties are your burden as well as the epitome of your gift as servant to the Emperor, and out of nowhere... it's gone at the snap of a finger. I don't care how super-human you are, that is going to be a hard adjustment.

 

BUT what's bigger here is the picture that shows the real burden that Calgar feels in that scene. It's a strong moment that shows his biggest self conflict, and sense of... inferiority is a fear of failure in the eyes of his gene-father.

 

What's even bigger about that moment is that Calgar has taken on that burden to the degree he does not realize there is a bigger failure here... a much bigger failure that includes Guilliman. It goes beyond the state of Ultramar, and the current Imperium, it dates back to Horus. But Calgar could -never- have that sense of realization because at the heart of it would be a sense of Guilliman's imperfection.

 

I don't think that makes Calgar weak or jealous. I think it gives him a sense of purpose, and drives him. It helps define him as one of the strongest defenders Ultramar could ever have, and makes his position even more fitting.

 

I didn't get that from Calgar. I felt he seemed very human.

 

 

But he's not simply human. None of the Marines should feel too human in terms of emotions.

 

 

One of the things that drew me to Ultramarines was the way they were tied to where they came from, the people they came from, and defend. You don't have to be 'human' to feel those things, but it is something we associate with.... humanity.

 

Going back to Calth I was always drawn by the differences between the Word Bearers willingly burning their own people in churches to spite the Emperor's  chastisement of their Legion. Yet when they came to burn Calth, it always struck me how the Ultramarines went out of their way to defend the populations.

 

We all know not all marines know of, or care of their origins, their families, their names, or backgounds. That's fine and dandy, but this is not the case of Ultramarines. They know where they come from, and who they stand for.... that's not a weakness, not a human weakness.

 

I know it's a bit off the rails, but Calgar's 'moment' there could have been very, very stiff, and cardboard-like. It could have been very shallow, and without any emotional investment. I'm glad it wasn't.

[Seahawk]

The Ultramarines are closely tied with their people, and in thought and deed are among the most "human" of the Ultramarines. Calgar's personal issues with Guilliman are similar to Luther and the Lion, but where the latter went to Chaos, Calgar is still as fiercely loyal as before; he simply is realizing the romanticized version of Guilliman isn't as true as he wished it to be.

 

Calgar's Siege was excellent; I wrote up a review here. 

 

I just got in Calgar's Fury yesterday, so I'll be starting that quite soon! :D

[Frater Cornelius]

Any updates on whether it is worth reading?

[Seahawk]

Yes!

 

Okay, so I finished reading it in a couple days. It follows the exploits of Calgar as he leads the 5th (yay!) and 7th companies aboard a space hulk. 

 

Because it's the same author, I basically have the same review as I did before. This author really 'gets' Ultramarines I feel, balancing their tactical acumen, humanity, and practicality into a story that has a nice flow, twists and turns, and so on. He does equally well writing about a company-size engagement as he does with a little alone time with with a terminator as he explores the hulk. 

 

That being said, somebody buy this :cuss author a :cuss thesaurus! 

 

he very often uses the phrase word "some", such as "some number of dudes", "some amount of material", etc. Over, and over, and over, and over. 

 

Same problem again, but I think it's even worse this time! It happens so often that every time it wrecks the immersion in the story, though I quickly delve back into it. As well, some of the sentence structure is very simplistic, as though a high-schooler wrote it. It's kinda jarring at first, but you get used to it and it interestingly helps the flow sometimes.

 

But then, do we ever go to BL desiring a high-literary work? If you do you're quite foolish, because while some/many BL authors are butt with grammar, they still churn out an excellent story, and that goes especially for Calgar's Fury. It's a ripping good story and I really, really enjoyed it because it FEELS like I'm reading about the Ultramarines.

[Frater Cornelius]

Hm, I'll give it a try, I suppose. Does it feel 40k though? I am sorely missing the old theocratic and extremely gothic Imperium, though I suppose UM isn't a good place to be looking for that :D

[Seahawk]

Quite so, it's definitely not that. I guess the Mechanicus allies get more religious in their actions, but it's not so much.

 

I suppose it reads more like 3rd edition stories than it does 7-8th edition. Does that help?

[Tamiel]

In the Dark Imperium, I did not see Calgar as selfish or short sighted. I also did not see him as feeling disappointed towards no longer being the "Lord of Ultramar" at all. The greatest (and only) struggle from Calgar was not tied to him losing his title, but was about his own sense of failure as a Chapter Master. He feels that he is not good enough, especially since he seems to interpret everything Guilliman says to him as a judgement on his character. Calgar is especially ashamed of the fact that Ultramar as a whole is not perfect, and he feels like he has failed Guilliman.

I did not get the "Oh I wish I was still the Lord of Ultramar" feel from him at all.
The only feel I got from Calgar was "I am not good enough for Guilliman because I couldn't keep Ultramar safe in Guilliman's absence".

Is there any particular passage where Calgar feels bad about losing his title? To my knowledge, that is the least of his worries (and in fact not a worry to him at all). His entire inner-conflict seems to be about him not feeling like he is worthy.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Tamiel

[Captain Idaho]

Indeed. Calgar is in fact the Tetrarch of Maccragge which is a fairly high honour and plenty of responsibility.

[Brother Captain Arkley]

I need to pick these up

[FirstSonofHorus]

In the Dark Imperium, I did not see Calgar as selfish or short sighted. I also did not see him as feeling disappointed towards no longer being the "Lord of Ultramar" at all. The greatest (and only) struggle from Calgar was not tied to him losing his title, but was about his own sense of failure as a Chapter Master. He feels that he is not good enough, especially since he seems to interpret everything Guilliman says to him as a judgement on his character. Calgar is especially ashamed of the fact that Ultramar as a whole is not perfect, and he feels like he has failed Guilliman.

 

I did not get the "Oh I wish I was still the Lord of Ultramar" feel from him at all.

The only feel I got from Calgar was "I am not good enough for Guilliman because I couldn't keep Ultramar safe in Guilliman's absence".

 

Is there any particular passage where Calgar feels bad about losing his title? To my knowledge, that is the least of his worries (and in fact not a worry to him at all). His entire inner-conflict seems to be about him not feeling like he is worthy.

 

Good post. I think it also serves as a synecdoche for the way regular marines may feel about Primaris. One of the best aspects of DI was the way it used the story progression for character development. See, Calgar, but especially Gulliman.

[Frater Cornelius]

Speaking of Guilliman, he told Dante to rebuild the moons of Baal but improve living condition there by a lot, despite the fact that irradiated wastes breed good recruits.

[DogWelder]

Speaking of Guilliman, he told Dante to rebuild the moons of Baal but improve living condition there by a lot, despite the fact that irradiated wastes breed good recruits.

 

...that part was always an extremely illogical part of Astartes lore in my opinion. If the Ultramarines (and several of their successors) can get top class recruits from hyper-civilized worlds with some of the highest living standards of the Imperium doesn't that really disprove the 'harsher environments breed better warriors' theory?

Edited November 19, 2017 by DogWelder

[Xenith]

 

Speaking of Guilliman, he told Dante to rebuild the moons of Baal but improve living condition there by a lot, despite the fact that irradiated wastes breed good recruits.

 

...that part was always an extremely illogical part of Astartes lore in my opinion. If the Ultramarines (and several of their successors) can get top class recruits from hyper-civilized worlds with some of the highest living standards of the Imperium doesn't that really disprove the 'harsher environments breed better warriors' theory?

 

 

It's more to do with the Blood Angels' souls.

 

The physical transformation from cancer ridden pock marked scavenger to angelic god being gives them such a sense of hope and optimism, one of their defining characteristics.

 

Pampering too much could lead to:

1) not being tough enough to make it to Angel's fall.

2) specific training programs to toughen up children and prepare them for astartes trials.

 

The first of which reduces recruit numbers and the second of which is anathema to the blood angels.

[DogWelder]

 

 

Speaking of Guilliman, he told Dante to rebuild the moons of Baal but improve living condition there by a lot, despite the fact that irradiated wastes breed good recruits.

 

...that part was always an extremely illogical part of Astartes lore in my opinion. If the Ultramarines (and several of their successors) can get top class recruits from hyper-civilized worlds with some of the highest living standards of the Imperium doesn't that really disprove the 'harsher environments breed better warriors' theory?

 

 

It's more to do with the Blood Angels' souls.

 

The physical transformation from cancer ridden pock marked scavenger to angelic god being gives them such a sense of hope and optimism, one of their defining characteristics.

 

Pampering too much could lead to:

1) not being tough enough to make it to Angel's fall.

2) specific training programs to toughen up children and prepare them for astartes trials.

 

The first of which reduces recruit numbers and the second of which is anathema to the blood angels.

 

 

So is it a population problem then? If so won't increasing the population exponentially increase the quality of recruits since there is a much bigger pool to work with? (Selecting the best from billions is better than selecting from 122,000).

[Brother Lunkhead]

I suspect that it's a more basic problem of "tradition".  Chapters like the Blood Angels and Space Wolves have been recruiting from these harsh environs for as long as the Ultramarines have been recruiting from the military academies. Good luck to Big Bobby G in getting these guys to change their ways. Tradition trumps reason every time.