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Pink Horrors & 8th Edition


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#26
themortalgod

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I think the main #1 reason to use blue horrors is $$$. If you buy 2 boxes of blues + brims, that is the troop requirement for a 200 point army right there. Very cheap entry level price and they can spend the rest of their money on the important stuff.

 

#2 I am wondering is who wins cc when getting charged most likely, 1 full unit of blues or 1 full unit of brims? Vs harlequins or vs astartes etc makes a big deal in that matchup of course, but I wonder what the best unit is in that scenario?

 

Well, neither win, its about who ties them up longer, and in that case a single brim is just as tough as a single blue for much less pts. (both are T3 with a 4++)

Brims do more damage though, on average +1 A > +1 Str. (from a low attack model, on higher attack models strength becomes more valuable the more attacks you have)

 

Against T3:

Brims: 0.11 Wounds

Blues: 0.11 wounds

 

Against T4 or higher:

Brims: 0.11 Wounds

Blues: 0.06 Wounds

 

(though, both probably aren't going to be doing much killing, 10 Brims kill 0.37 MEQ per turn, on average in close combat and 10 blues kill 0.19). Hitting on 5s, wounding on 6s, against a 3+ save just doesn't do much damage. msn-wink.gif

 

If you factor in pts values then the Brims do even better, 2.5 Brims is way stronger than 1 Blue.  Both in terms of output and difficulty to kill.

 

Personally, I think the best way to run horrors will be 9 Brims and 1 Blue. The blue being just so you don't have to sacrifice brims to cast. Thats a 23pt unit that casts D3 MW on a 5+ and is surprisingly resilient in CC with a 4++ and Ld7. Can easily take a ton of these little units in an army for a minuscule investment and they can act as awesome charge screens or bubble wrap with the capability to occasionally toss a few MWs onto something.

 

I agree on the $$ front though, il prob field Blues just because I have them, might as well use them. But anyone looking to min/max will certainly ditch them in favour of Brims.


Edited by themortalgod, 05 June 2017 - 04:24 AM.


#27
bozo69pd

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Didn't see the brims have 3 T now, :cuss? I assumed they would have 1 just like in 7th. Yeah clearly that is some value just in those stats alone.



#28
Excessus

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It only says "Pink Horrors are armed with coruscating flames. Blue Horrors and Brimstone Horrors simply scrabble at anyone who comes too close", where do people get the idea that they all have flames?


"Deception is the point. Any fool can calculate strength. That one has been doing it from the moment he saw us. Now, he has to calculate what he can't see. And fear what he doesn't know."

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#29
bozo69pd

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It only says "Pink Horrors are armed with coruscating flames. Blue Horrors and Brimstone Horrors simply scrabble at anyone who comes too close", where do people get the idea that they all have flames?

I thought they were only talking about the smite psychic attacks?



#30
Excessus

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It only says "Pink Horrors are armed with coruscating flames. Blue Horrors and Brimstone Horrors simply scrabble at anyone who comes too close", where do people get the idea that they all have flames?

I thought they were only talking about the smite psychic attacks?

 

I that's the case then fine, but it's still only one spell per unit.


"Deception is the point. Any fool can calculate strength. That one has been doing it from the moment he saw us. Now, he has to calculate what he can't see. And fear what he doesn't know."

Alpha Legion Cell #379, Thousand Sons and other friends
The Serpent's Lair - Alpha Legion Forum

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#31
PureH

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Overall,  I have to say that my early hype for 8th is quickly being beaten out of me by what looks like a massive over-reaction by GW to curb 1 abusive mechanic.

 

I think it's you that is over-reacting personally, not GW. We have no information about most of the stuff you talked about in your post.

 

Lets see...

 

#1: Yes you need to pay for blue horros, but we have no information about how that rule works in 8th ed...also, that means the suddenly extremely durable horrors cost more than their 1 wound counterparts which is how it should be.

 

#2: Exactly, we don't know yet. Why even waste time about worrying about this? The rule of one thing has already been discussed and it seems unlikely that 8th ed will have that, but again, we don't know yet!

 

#3: Why do you beleive there is no mono-god armies anymore? Heck with keywords I strongly suspect there will be a "Tzeentch" one that you can play around with combined with daemon only FoCs and stuff.

 

 

 

So to sum it all up, relax, be patient. The rules will be out soon enough, this isn't a place to vent your frustration, this is a board for constructive discussions!

 

Just FYI, some one leaked the rules online for each of index's and there data sheets so yer... alot of people have looked at the rules. You have to pay for reinforcements for each and very blue/brimstone horrors you add to the unit. And Horrors are just 1 unit. so you can have blue, brimstone and pink horrors all in 1 unit.


Edited by PureH, 07 June 2017 - 06:16 AM.


#32
bozo69pd

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Yeah this information is not some new revolutionary tactic. AoS has had it since the models released in silver tower boxed set. Blows my mind that people don't know all this already.



#33
Ahzek451

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I don't understand the point of split in matched play. Pay for the models, you might as well have them at the start of the game, otherwise you risk models running and losing out on split. I feel like all we are going to see is spammed units of brims with a single blue. I don't think it would have been unreasonable to have split trigger on a 4+ or 5+ instead of paying points. Look at necrons right now. 12 pt warriors that can attempt to come back every turn (unless the unit is wiped).

#34
bozo69pd

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I don't understand the point of split in matched play. Pay for the models, you might as well have them at the start of the game, otherwise you risk models running and losing out on split. I feel like all we are going to see is spammed units of brims with a single blue. I don't think it would have been unreasonable to have split trigger on a 4+ or 5+ instead of paying points. Look at necrons right now. 12 pt warriors that can attempt to come back every turn (unless the unit is wiped).

Split is clearly not as good as reanimation protocols at all or even close. Split has been nerfed. What I am saying is if for some reason you hold 300 points in reserves to summon a LoC or screamers and only spend 270 points of summons on turn 2, then end of turn 3 if you take casualties on your pinks or blues you can spend the last 30 points that would have gone to waste on brims.

 

That is really the only value of the split rule, otherwise the brims right off the bat are better since they are t3 (which is ridiculous I think that unit should be t1 like it is now in 7th).



#35
Daenerys Targaryen

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I wonder how long until Daemons get an actual codex again?

 

I know that the mega nerf batting they've taken is more or less due to butt-hurt over a couple insanely abusive gimmicks we had in 7th,  but I just can't bring myself to give them shot,  what with how badly gutted Tzeentch's whole aspect has been.

1 'assaulty' Pink Horror squad was fun,  especially with a spawn-sword wielding Herald leading them,  and potentially giving the ability to flip tanks!

But now being reduced to Pinks & even Blues being mostly pointless,  due how beyond stupidly cheap & effective Brims are,  while the only models to even blink at taking are Exalteds,  LoC/DP's and a smattering of Screamers.

 

Yawn.



#36
bozo69pd

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Daenerys you do realize that you listed 5 units worth taking and only 2 not worth taking? I'll add Soul Grinder to the list, they are great with 8th as well.

 

Also as of 6th and 7th edition Tzeentch flying circus or screamerstar lists both only consisted of 2 11 man units of pinks and all the rest were either just screamers + heralds on disks, or DP's and LoC. Both lists of course supported by Fateweaver. This edition will be the same damn thing, except minimum brims instead of pinks.



#37
Daenerys Targaryen

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I didn't ever bother with playing "competitive" standards,  because I hated how abusive/gimmicky everything was & most "armies" were more like fluff abominations than anything else.

 

I used LOTS of Pinkies all through 6th & 7th.  (and even in 5th before we got proper psychic abilities)

My lists always revolved around at least 2x18 Pinks,  or 18 + 2x13 units of Pinks...  Throw in at least 2x 6 Flamers,  (especially once the OP WD rules went away!),  plus a Tzherald for each Pinky unit.

 

Why?  not because it was "competitive",  but because I've always felt that Pinks + Flamers *should* be the backbone of a mono-Tzeentch army!

Now,  my Pinks are pointless,  and the gutting of the Psychic phase has removed most of the flavour of what makes Tzeentch unique from the other Gods.

Even when 7th prevented multiple castings of Flickering Fire from the same unit,  I could still at least have the Tzherald pop off a useful Prescience/Misfortune and let the Pinks do their thing & blast away...  Maybe even toss in a Bolt or other shooting spell when dice permitted.

But most importantly,  I could play my army in a fluffy manner and have each & every single unit of Pinkies contribute beyond being a gimmicky WC generator for Kairos/Magnus.

 

Now though?  You're actively knee capping yourself for taking even a single Pink Horror - THE iconic Tzeentch unit that should always be present in a mono army!

Flamers are 'meh' over as well now,  especially when you compare them to what just a single Exalted/Chariot can bring.

 

Tzeentch daemons are now the "7th ed CSM's" of 8th,  whereby you bring anything BUT what should be your most iconic unit.


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#38
bozo69pd

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Yeah I preferred to play the tzeentch daemon incursion in 7th when it came out with 9x 11 pinks. That was tons of fun and there was 0 summoning involved, just D to the face all day.

 

Hopefully when daemons get a codex they will have something to address this. Until then I will shelve my pinks and bring in thousand sons or use my DG force.


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