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Primaris Marines and the Grey Knights

Primaris Marines Grey Knights

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25 replies to this topic

#1
Valerian

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I figured we could use a dedicated thread on this subject, instead of discussing this aspect all over in the main 8th edition thread.

 

So, what are your initial thoughts on the new Marines and how they might, or might not, impact the Grey Knights?

 

 

My first thought is that all of the other Chapters in the game can be represented pretty easily by simply adding a few upgrade-style pieces to the stock Primaris models, and getting the color scheme right.  For example, by using some of the special shoulder pads, and tacking on a wolf tail on a couple guys, I could make a squad that would integrate into my Space Wolves army very easily.  The upgrade kit already exists, in fact, and everything on that sprue would work with the Primaris Marines, with the exception of one torso back piece that has a wolf pelt/cloak.

 

For Grey Knights, however, we'd need to have a completely dedicated Primaris Grey Knights kit to really do them justice.  Our armor is too elaborate with the scrollwork on the torso and legs, as well as the requirement to have the Liber Daemonic on the chest-piece.  Just slapping on our specialized shoulder pads aren't going to cut it.  We'd also need the right arms, since they said the newer arms weren't really interchangeable, and we'll need some with the integrated storm bolter gauntlets.  

 

Based on these factors, I'm not sure we'll even get "organic" access to Primaris Marines within the Grey Knights, initially.

 

I would, however, love to get Primaris-scale Grey Knights at some point in the future.  

 

V


Edited by Valerian, 18 May 2017 - 12:05 PM.


#2
derLumpi

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Grey Knight are psykers right?

If GK get primaris guys this would mean that the Imperium would be able to create psykers at will.


Edited by derLumpi, 18 May 2017 - 12:00 PM.

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#3
Valerian

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Grey Knight are psykers right?

If GK get primaris guys this would mean that the Imperium would be able to create psykers at will.

 

I think it's a little early to make that call.  As yet, we don't know what the creation process is for the Primaris Marines.  Some have assumed that they're vat-grown, but we don't know that for sure yet.  And even if they end up being created just like that, it could easily be explained that some small number end up with psychic potential, just like the regular human population throughout the galaxy, and those get earmarked as potential Grey Knights Primaris candidates.



#4
Prot

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I think this is going to be a very interesting discussion. I predict the background argument will be: you can't screw with 'the gift' no matter how big and cool it makes you look. And the player argument will be: why wouldn't the sons of Titan take every advantage they can get their hands on?

 

I can see it from both sides. Now that we know there heritage of the Geneseed after so many years of guessing, and we know how unique the GK geneseed is.... wow, this is a tough one to justify in a manner which won't have people up in arms to some degree.

 

This should be very interesting. :)


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#5
Gentlemanloser

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The mechanical side;

 

The 'teaser' shows the "Chapter" keyword.  The Grey Knights are a Chapter, so we could possibly have Primaris Grey Knights.  Much in the same way the Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels will be able to.

 

But all Grey Knights are Psykers, and we've been shown no evidence of the Primaris Marines having Psychic Powers.

 

While there *might* be a Primaris Librarian, there would seem to be no way to Include a Intercessor Squad in the Grey Knights, as the Intercessors aren't Psykers.

 

Now, this could all be covered by our 'Chapter Trait'. 

 

Say that the Chapter Keyword used for the Primaris Marines contains elements that are unique to the Existing Chapters.

 

If Blood Angel Primaris get the Black Rage/Red Thirst from the Bangel Keyword, it's possible that the GK Keyword would give the Intercessors PML.

 

Still, they wouldn't have access to Psycannons, Incinerators or Psilencers though.  Nor Nemesis Force Weapons.

 

It seems mechanically, clunky, at best, for the Intercessors (and other Primaris Squads!) integration into non Codex Chapters (like Space Wolf Intercessors not having access to Frost Blades, Dangel Primaris Terminators not having access to Plasma Cannons, etc).

 

But we know it will happen...


QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#6
duz_

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Right off the bat with what we've been given on the nuMarines I don't think we would have access to them.

 

Unless...

 

1) They've actually made a GK variant! :) or

2) Given the shake up in the universe they decide GK's are no longer a super secret club and everyone knows about them. So they give them access to non-psyker support on the regular to boost their efforts in the warp / chaos / daemon ridden universe. 

 

Personally I hope its #1, or perhaps our Paladins and Purifiers get enough of a rules boost we don't need them! :)

I know I will probably buy a box or 2 for my RG though... 



#7
Segismundo

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In facebook they said not are the moment:

2l1cfl.jpg


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#8
Waking Dreamer

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In facebook they said not are the moment:
2l1cfl.jpg


Yeah, I read that as GW has no intention of making suitable Primaris GK variant models in the near future. Though currently lore-wise, there is adequate reasons as to why NO Primaris marines would fill the GK ranks as fellow GKs.

On the the positive side, Primaris Marines are supposed to be the new SM+1, since GKs were initially supposed to be SM+1and now won't have Primaris marines as natural units you can add to your GK army list, our base/unique GK units will hopefully have rules to make us as competitive as Primaris units/armies but in our own fluffy GK way. I'm fine with this because I love our GK models and the fact you won't have Primaris Marines as GKs...is a good reason for GW to have us strong on our own...for the sake of balance.

Edited by Waking Dreamer, 18 May 2017 - 02:56 PM.


#9
Valerian

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In facebook they said not are the moment:
2l1cfl.jpg


Thanks for posting; I'm glad to see they responded to it, instead of avoiding.

#10
drakzilla

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I'd say if you want to field daemon-hunting Primaris Marines alongside your Grey Knights...use Exorcists ;)
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#11
Dremiah

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I'd say the Grey Knights already have Primaris Space Marines, they're called Paladins.
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#12
Valerian

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Unfortunately, Paladins aren't the right height/scale.  Hopefully they will be all balanced up and worth playing in 8th edition, though.



#13
Reclusiarch Darius

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I'd prefer we don't get Primaris Marines, to be honest. They're completely at odds with our recruitment requirements and Chapter doctrine. 


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#14
Prot

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I'd prefer we don't get Primaris Marines, to be honest. They're completely at odds with our recruitment requirements and Chapter doctrine. 

 

But ... not sure if you know this yet because it came out in the QnA; the Primaris Geneseed is flexible enough to upgrade current Marines. 



#15
Valerian

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Primaris Supreme Grand Master Kaldor Draigo?!   ohmy.png


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#16
Liege

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I think this is going to be a very interesting discussion. I predict the background argument will be: you can't screw with 'the gift' no matter how big and cool it makes you look. And the player argument will be: why wouldn't the sons of Titan take every advantage they can get their hands on?

 

I can see it from both sides. Now that we know there heritage of the Geneseed after so many years of guessing, and we know how unique the GK geneseed is.... wow, this is a tough one to justify in a manner which won't have people up in arms to some degree.

 

This should be very interesting. smile.png

Could you please elaborate on this Prot? I know who and what the original Grandmaster of the Grey Knights was, but is it his gene-seed that they used for later Grey Knights or was it the Emperors? That would be some delicious heresy if the GK gene-seed is from Big Red.


Where do your a-legion-ces lay?

 

The Luna Wolves are clearly inferior to the Space Wolves. Just look at the name, the Luna Wolves are only as strong as a basic moon whereas the Space Wolves control all of Space itself. That's literally infinitely bigger and stronger than a stupid moon.

 

I am strongly concerned with the Primaris fluff, first of all, Custodians don't have gene-seed and second of all, the Vlka Fenryka only recruit from Fenris, puny Terrans die with our mighty gene-seed implanted. Good luck explaining that away GW.


#17
Valerian

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I think this is going to be a very interesting discussion. I predict the background argument will be: you can't screw with 'the gift' no matter how big and cool it makes you look. And the player argument will be: why wouldn't the sons of Titan take every advantage they can get their hands on?

 

I can see it from both sides. Now that we know there heritage of the Geneseed after so many years of guessing, and we know how unique the GK geneseed is.... wow, this is a tough one to justify in a manner which won't have people up in arms to some degree.

 

This should be very interesting. smile.png

Could you please elaborate on this Prot? I know who and what the original Grandmaster of the Grey Knights was, but is it his gene-seed that they used for later Grey Knights or was it the Emperors? That would be some delicious heresy if the GK gene-seed is from Big Red.

 

 

The "Emperor's Gift."  It was confirmed, in the 7th edition version of the codex, I believe, that the Grey Knights were created from the Emperor's own genetic material, rather than via a Primarch, like all of the other Chapters.

 

So, Prot's point, I think, is that it would raise a lot of "fluff" issues for Cawl to have already broken the code on updating our geneseed, too.  It should require a different solution than the rest of the Adeptus Astartes.


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#18
Valerian

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So, today's post from the 40k Facebook page (provided above) confirms that Grey Knight won't initially get any of the Primaris reinforcements.  This actually ties in with exactly what I mentioned in the original post of this thread - they'll really need to do an entirely dedicated new line of models just for the Grey Knights to make that happen.  All other Chapters in the galaxy can be represented with the new basic Primaris models and whatever bits those Chapters already use to personalize their figures.  The Grey Knights, however, can't be reflected with just an upgrade kit; they're going to require specific models, which means we can expect to wait a while before Titan starts to get any benefit from the work of Cawl.

 

So, just like we had to wait forever for our pewter models of 3e, and then another decade for our plastic models of 5e, we'll be waiting for a while before we get the up-scale treatment.  In-universe, they'll probably justify it with needing more time to figure out how to develop a unique solution to improve on the genetic heritage that the Emperor personally gave us.


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#19
dogfender

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What does Gullimans lack of knowing their existence 10k ago? Considering the proximity of titan to terra, and upon becoming the Jr emp.. he would know about them. So yet again GW facebook employees lack foresight and logic in their own response and game.

 

The fact that any SM that can go through this boost process chooses not to should be exterminated. Every single SM, let alone GK should HAVE to undergo this process. Otherwise the fluff continues to be bad and the logic behind not doing it just deliberately hinders the emperors and gullimans plan of warding space of chaos and xenos.

 

GK should have the upgrades, no exceptions lol



#20
Happy-inquisitor

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In the fluff the decision will come down to the leaders of the Grey Knights such as Voldus.

 

Ultimately it could go either way but initially I think it will be caution that wins out. Grey Knights are proven to be resistant to chaos corruption, Primaris Marines are intended to be more resistant than regular marines but that is untested. Why would the GK risk and "upgrade" that might weaken their resistance to chaos corruption - being a bit bigger and stronger would be a very bad trade-off for possibly losing their most important characteristic.

 

Long term anything might happen. In the short term with no conversion kits likely to come out the GK fluff will represent the GK working alongside the new marines but not becoming them.



#21
Prot

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I think this is going to be a very interesting discussion. I predict the background argument will be: you can't screw with 'the gift' no matter how big and cool it makes you look. And the player argument will be: why wouldn't the sons of Titan take every advantage they can get their hands on?

 

I can see it from both sides. Now that we know there heritage of the Geneseed after so many years of guessing, and we know how unique the GK geneseed is.... wow, this is a tough one to justify in a manner which won't have people up in arms to some degree.

 

This should be very interesting. smile.png

Could you please elaborate on this Prot? I know who and what the original Grandmaster of the Grey Knights was, but is it his gene-seed that they used for later Grey Knights or was it the Emperors? That would be some delicious heresy if the GK gene-seed is from Big Red.

 

 

There is a reason I am drawn to Grey Knights and Thousand Sons. Sorry for being a bit off topic however it is a revelation regarding the Grey Knight Geneseed if you've not been aware of this release:

http://www.blacklibr...pero-ebook.html



#22
Gentlemanloser

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Isn't that only *who* the first Supreme Grand Master was (Which was a surprise!)?

 

All 'regular' GK (I'm assuming those Malcador stuck on Titan and bamphed into the Warp) come from the Emperors Gene-Seed, don't they?


QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#23
Rurik the blessed

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Really... do we need that heresy of primaris space marines?

i personally don't need it... having Terminators as troops... there's nothing that they could add to my army.



#24
jeffersonian000

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Technically all geneseed are the Emperor's geneseed, he did create the Primarches from his own DNA after all. /wink

SJ
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#25
Valerian

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Good point, jeff.







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