Primaris Marines are the new Marine & Meta standard!

[D3L]

Q: How can Primaris marines be the new meta/standard/yardstick when you keep comparing them to a regular marine?

 

Oooh, paradox.

 

A: They can't. Any time you use a non primaris marine as a baseline to show how primaris are better, you reinforce that regular marines are the baseline.

if your logic was any more circular you'd compress your cervical nerves and potentially cause other issues, take a moment, breath and realise you're trying to tell someone they can't use an arbitrary baseline, because you don't want to admit he possibility to yourself that Primaris are replacing Normalstartes

[jamesvalentine]

seeing lots of yammering. but no facts.

typical I guess.

but please like I've said I'm happy to take your unbuilt and unpainted marines off your hands.

for free obviously since you hate them so much people.

;)

[Xenith]

 

Q: How can Primaris marines be the new meta/standard/yardstick when you keep comparing them to a regular marine?

 

Oooh, paradox.

 

A: They can't. Any time you use a non primaris marine as a baseline to show how primaris are better, you reinforce that regular marines are the baseline.

if your logic was any more circular you'd compress your cervical nerves and potentially cause other issues, take a moment, breath and realise you're trying to tell someone they can't use an arbitrary baseline, because you don't want to admit he possibility to yourself that Primaris are replacing Normalstartes

 

 

Until old marines are removed from the game entirely, new marines will always be compared to them, just as every other stat line is compared to MEQ. This thread is living proof of that.

 

The baseline is not arbitrary, but based on the most common stat line within the most common faction in the game. The MEQ statline.

 

Also I don't have a clue how you drew that last inference. Primaris will eventually replace normal astartes. The thing is, it doesnt bother me.

[Grimtooth]

Q: How can Primaris marines be the new meta/standard/yardstick when you keep comparing them to a regular marine?

 

Oooh, paradox.

 

A: They can't. Any time you use a non primaris marine as a baseline to show how primaris are better, you reinforce that regular marines are the baseline.

Except that is not what I have done. Try to think more big picture instead of just bandwagoning on another post.

 

Intercessor is the Troop choice for a Primaris Force. Possibly even the Hellblasters as well in the new box set. Now look at all the other leaks we have had from the other factions and their Troop choices as well as other units. Now look at the Tactical Squad profile we have been given that is just basically an import from 7th. Now which unit do you think 8th was designed around? GW sure as hell didn't look at Gaunts and say, "Let's make a new Gaunt model and have that be the benchmark for adjusting all other units in the game." They sure as hell didn't look to the Tactical Squad and say, "Let's take this profile and use it as the benchmark to adjust all other units in the game." But they did make a brand new model, gave it a new stat line and by appearances from the stats and rules we have seen from other factions, used it as the benchmark to adjust all those said factions. Except one, the SM Tactical Squad.

 

So taking Primaris and comparing them to a Tactica Squad to show they are better is not the premise, but instead taking not only the Primaris but what we have learned from all the other factions and saying that the Tactical Squad is way underpowered in comparison to all the others.

[deathspectersgt7]

Are the BoP plastic MK III really that much larger? I was under the impression they were beefier like the plastic Mk IV but I never knew they were scaled up like the DW.

At least now I know not to use the plastic Mk III bits except with other larger plastic parts, since the FW resin parts are quite a bit smaller.

I had to cut the codpiece off the upgrade kit to get it to fit. Luckily the shoulderpads cover up things looking a little awkward.

Yeah those fw torsos don't sit that well on the gw plastic MK3 . That is why it seems taller than MK4 I did a size comparison there is just a slight height difference not like that in the picture. Great Looking CF by the way.

[Verger]

Yeah those fw torsos don't sit that well on the gw plastic MK3 . That is why it seems taller than MK4 I did a size comparison there is just a slight height difference not like that in the picture. Great Looking CF by the way.

 

 

Thanks :) . I didn't really notice because all my MKIII got the FW bodies, so I've never actually seen a plastic MKIII "as nature intended".  There is still a size gap between them, right? It looks that way in all the photos I've seen of them.

 

Regardless - the Deathwatch are huge.  We need a comparison between Primaris and those ideally. :)

[AndrewChristlieb]

seeing lots of yammering. but no facts.

typical I guess.

but please like I've said I'm happy to take your unbuilt and unpainted marines off your hands.

for free obviously since you hate them so much people.

;)

If James is too far for you to send your models for disposal I will also humbly accept the challenge. I mean it's an inconvenience sure, but hey we're all here to help ;)

[jamesvalentine]

yes...to help...<.< >.>

[Verger]

Not my photo.  But very good food for thought.

[No Foes Remain]

Ok, so the Primaris don't look tooooooo bad alongside the (standard? old?) marine. Still will be a shame when/if GW stop supporting the current marine line as many people think they will.

[Grimtooth]

 

Not my photo. But very good food for thought.

That at least looks reasonable! Every other standard Marine looks like it was take your kid to work day for the Primaris.

Ok, so the Primaris don't look tooooooo bad alongside the (standard? old?) marine. Still will be a shame when/if GW stop supporting the current marine line as many people think they will.

That is a Deathwatch Marine which are like half a head taller than the the standard if I remember correctly.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

Are the BoP plastic MK III really that much larger? I was under the impression they were beefier like the plastic Mk IV but I never knew they were scaled up like the DW.

At least now I know not to use the plastic Mk III bits except with other larger plastic parts, since the FW resin parts are quite a bit smaller.

I had to cut the codpiece off the upgrade kit to get it to fit. Luckily the shoulderpads cover up things looking a little awkward.

Yeah, I heard about the resin torso upgrades needing cutting to fit, but wow, that is a huge size increase! Thanks for the comparison.

[Claws and Effect]

You really can't claim that Primaris are yhe new baseline with any real credibility unless you can show us more than a few select unit statlines.

 

None of us can do that yet. But somehow I doubt that every MEQ unit in the game is suddenly sporting 2 wounds, which would be the case if Primaris are the new baseline.

[Grimtooth]

You really can't claim that Primaris are yhe new baseline with any real credibility unless you can show us more than a few select unit statlines.

 

None of us can do that yet. But somehow I doubt that every MEQ unit in the game is suddenly sporting 2 wounds, which would be the case if Primaris are the new baseline.

Seriously, open your eyes.  

 

The Tactical Squad stat line has been given, and minus any juiced up special rules or wargear, every single faction focus that has been touched on absolutely destroys them.  Every single one!  The same cannot be said after seeing the Primaris faction focus and stat line.  That is the whole point!  That the Primaris Marines are the standard that 8th was designed around.  We see that in the new stuff revealed in the faction reveals and we see that the standard Tactical Squad has fallen by the wayside with just an import from 7th edition.

[SickSix]

I agree with the OP 100%.

 

Guys the biggest give away is the starter set. New players won't even know what regular marines are. You think after playing with their Primaris Marines they are going to buy a single wound TAC squad, that look like dwarves to their new Primaris models?

 

Hell no!

 

If Primaris were meant to just be a new unit for marines (long term) then regular marines would have been included in the starter set. They weren't. Because GW wants new players buying into Primaris Marines full stop.

 

Guys, the writing is on the wall.

[Grimtooth]

Faction Focus Orks release just adds more fuel to the fire. Matched up well against Primaris and roll over standard Marines.

[Robbienw]

Its incredible how you are able to determine that from such a small amount of information :lol:

[Brother Christopher]

I struggle to digest the idea of the "New GW", where one of the key negative aspects of the "Old GW" was its predatory entrepreneurship. They are supposed to release more information about Primaris tomorrow. Great and all. But what about telling us more about what we already have, what we've invested our time and soul in, the Squat Marines? I would really, really like to know more about them to be able to determine how useful or useless they are in comparison with the new ones.

[Grimtooth]

I asked the Warhammer 40k Facebook page today for a Faction Focus on SM for that exact reason Crist. A SM Faction Focus will answer a lot of questions and ease a lot of trepidation about what is to come

[Brother Christopher]

I am quite content with what we saw regarding the rules for the new edition. I made up my mind to ignore the Primaris marines for the time being. Now I just need a SM Faction Focus ;)

 

Brother Ramses, did you by any chance the Emperor's grace get any meaningful response from GW?

[Grimtooth]

Not yet. I got one responses to reference the FAQ when I asked about what it would mean that standard Marines could be updated, which didn't really answer my question. I will be keeping any eye on the new post.

[Antarius]

 

Not my photo. But very good food for thought.

That at least looks reasonable! Every other standard Marine looks like it was take your kid to work day for the Primaris.

Ok, so the Primaris don't look tooooooo bad alongside the (standard? old?) marine. Still will be a shame when/if GW stop supporting the current marine line as many people think they will.

That is a Deathwatch Marine which are like half a head taller than the the standard if I remember correctly.

That exact Deathwatch Marine isn't all that tall, actually. He's from Overkill and has a bit of the "marine squatting pose" unless I'm much mistaken.

[mactire]

These guys are the new Stormcast Eternals, just look at the unit sizes, 5 for troops and 3 for spec's with large hero's. I'm not being negative, it's just the reality. As Brother Ramses said new players, which is always an important market, will only know the Primaris and will not need to bother with the SM range, there will be little or no new SM releases while the Primaris will surely get new units and transports, sure you can still play your old armies but eventually the interest will shift to the new shinies. Just look at how many Dev squads still used HB's once grav became an option, or even in our own Codex the shift to min troops when Wolfstar was the most effective.

When the rumours were first confirmed, people said they'd be limited to certain units and SM's would still be needed, but I think with the contents of the starter set confirmed we can stop pretending that this is the case. It's sad to say but this release does spell the end of the Codex Astartes Marines, and even more worryingly the possible end to the uniqueness of certain Chapters.

[Brother Christopher]

When the rumours were first confirmed, people said they'd be limited to certain units and SM's would still be needed, but I think with the contents of the starter set confirmed we can stop pretending that this is the case. It's sad to say but this release does spell the end of the Codex Astartes Marines, and even more worryingly the possible end to the uniqueness of certain Chapters.

 

This is the most worrying aspect of the plot development. Space Marine Chapters are most likely to slowly lose their unique identities and Guilliman's (or GW's) plain poster boys will rule supreme.

 

The worst part with this new Primaris business is that, as I see it, for the sake of pushing sales, GW ruins the setting. If we have to have Marines 2.0, it would be way more interesting if they couldn't be upgrades for the existing Marines. That would at least leave some space for not including them in some Chapters. As an upgrade option, I see no reason (based on GW's official fluff releases, but also extrapolating from their current writing in general) to keep the old Marines, with the new being superior in every way and, apparently, readily available in chapter-sized batches.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

The worst part with this new Primaris business is that, as I see it, for the sake of pushing sales, GW ruins the setting. If we have to have Marines 2.0, it would be way more interesting if they couldn't be upgrades for the existing Marines. That would at least leave some space for not including them in some Chapters. As an upgrade option, I see no reason (based on GW's official fluff releases, but also extrapolating from their current writing in general) to keep the old Marines, with the new being superior in every way and, apparently, readily available in chapter-sized batches.

 

 

That's like saying there's no reason for people to own Astral Claws or Astral Knights armies.