Jackalwolf Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 But they just added Taller Space Marines, which is the most creatively bankrupt and money-grabbing option they could have chosen. What's the biggest player base? Space Marines. What's the best way to make money? Make Space Marine players buy their armies again. What's the easiest way to do that? Make Taller Space Marines and give them a better cost-value ratio. With all due respect, and being a corporate executive myself, if a project nets a higher ROI than another, that's the one you do. So I'm not sure if that's a criticism or applauding their good business sense which will hopefully keep them afloat for a long time and that way you'll be provided with the hobby you like for the foreseeable future. Now on a side note, and having spoken first hand with the lead designer of the new marines, they were scared :cussless about the concept. They really thought an update was in hand since the old marines were lackluster compared even to industry standard and wanted to make something better but knew well enough the storm of shyte that could generate so no, they didn't take the lazy option but they made a solid bet. Plastic sisters I assume would look like something with no risk whatsoever but a lower overall ROI potential, so that's actually the lazy move by default: Guaranteed low returns. Potentially massive returns with a dose of risk isn't lazy, it's good business as long as the guess is educated enough and founded in a solid planning and execution strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 But they just added Taller Space Marines, which is the most creatively bankrupt and money-grabbing option they could have chosen. What's the biggest player base? Space Marines. What's the best way to make money? Make Space Marine players buy their armies again. What's the easiest way to do that? Make Taller Space Marines and give them a better cost-value ratio. With all due respect, and being a corporate executive myself, if a project nets a higher ROI than another, that's the one you do. So I'm not sure if that's a criticism or applauding their good business sense which will hopefully keep them afloat for a long time and that way you'll be provided with the hobby you like for the foreseeable future. Now on a side note, and having spoken first hand with the lead designer of the new marines, they were scared :cussless about the concept. They really thought an update was in hand since the old marines were lackluster compared even to industry standard and wanted to make something better but knew well enough the storm of shyte that could generate so no, they didn't take the lazy option but they made a solid bet. Plastic sisters I assume would look like something with no risk whatsoever but a lower overall ROI potential, so that's actually the lazy move by default: Guaranteed low returns. Potentially massive returns with a dose of risk isn't lazy, it's good business as long as the guess is educated enough and founded in a solid planning and execution strategy. Why in the hell did'nt they do it in 2013 when the new Tactical squad come out ? That is what grinds my gears . It would have been better because the real kit was ancient where as the current kit is only 4 yrs old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovemberIX Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 @DSS7: I'd assume because no one had thought of it yet. I mean at that point how much stuff was finally being ported over from finecast? If I remember right the 2013 line was also noted for standing a little taller than the previous SM kits. I honestly think primaris is a much more recent invention, indicative of the "mood of society" (though that's a whole 'nother discussion) As with the other thread(s), we already know there's gonna be continued product releases for mainline SM "some time" after primaris are released so there's that. As for primaris being the standard, that I disagree with. They just don't have the flexibility of a current SM army. Assuming there are going to be releases to fill those gaps won't really lead us anywhere, if there are that's one thing, but as primaris stand, I'll keep my Assault Squads, Vanguard Veterans, Sternguard, command squads (if they're even still a thing) and the humble, go anywhere, do anything, get shot down by it all Tactical Marine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiltedMarine Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Seems to me like GW just wanted to make money without actually putting in any effort. They could have brought Squats back. They could have introduced a whole new race or faction. They could have added a new subfaction (like a new chaos God). They could have given some unique troop models to Ynari aside from the HQs we got. They could have made plastic sisters. They could have modernized the CSM and Ork lines. But they just added Taller Space Marines, which is the most creatively bankrupt and money-grabbing option they could have chosen. What's the biggest player base? Space Marines. What's the best way to make money? Make Space Marine players buy their armies again. What's the easiest way to do that? Make Taller Space Marines and give them a better cost-value ratio. They get to keep up appearances by saying "Oh don't worry, your old SMs are still going to get rules!" while slowly making them an obsolete choice. Meanwhile, they get to milk their largest customer base while shanking them in the back. The cynical part of me says I'm going to be proven right about this. After everything GW has done in the past, I hardly see any other way for these events to unfold. If GW stops making small-marine models and discontinues the small-marine line in a few years, know that I was right. And believe me, I hope I'm wrong. This speaks to me, man. I entirely agree with you on being disappointed that this was the choice the writers and designers took rather than any other. I don't like what it does to the rest of the fluff, and I'm insulted by the laziness involved. I don't think that the cost-value ratio is better, though, for all the reasons I listed earlier. 1 Primaris =/= the killing power of 2 Veterii, although a squad of comparable size would attrit better. But they pay for their resilience with inflexibility, making them play a lot more like really expensive Eldar- each unit has a specific kind of role, and they have to work together to achieve their objectives. To me they look like they're at close to parity. Which is no excuse for the studio's dearth of imagination in foisting SUPERLATIVE MARINES on us instead of anything original or more helpful to the setting. I really sincerely think that the setting needs Squats, in some form. They provided so many narrative possibilities. It's a pity that the company treats them as an "old shame" because of the way the idea came about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentz Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 The big shame in all of this is that the companies which provide us with fun hobbies and diversions like Warhammer are not run for the purpose of pleasing us. Everything would be so much better if they could just say "it doesn't matter about sales, it just matters that we create the best gaming experience possible". I am sure that sat in the studio are designers who are dying to do that, with drawers full of designs for exciting new races or spinoffs of existing ones. But the cost involved to create those are high, and the market may be zero. Let's take the much loved squats... what percentage of the player base will start a brand new army in any given year? what percentage of those would choose space dwarves instead of one of the other races? vs What percentage of the player base has Marines? what percentage of those would choose to add some shiny new models to their existing armies? I mean it's not even close. Maybe if everyone goes and buys some new Primaris, the company will have the confidence to be more creative. Hopefully not just space dwarves though. You couldn't even call them "Squats" in 2017. I am pretty sure disability charities would not be super happy about labelling small people "squats". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cohort Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 If the mostly recently updated (and beautiful) marine lineup is lackluster compared to industry standard what does that say about most of the chaos, orks, sisters and Eldar lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAtrox Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Maybe if everyone goes and buys some new Primaris, the company will have the confidence to be more creative. If Primaris marines sell really well, GW will probably just push more Primaris marines. Predictability is stability, and stability is good for making money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesvalentine Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 · Hidden by Brother Tyler, June 2, 2017 - Jackass Hidden by Brother Tyler, June 2, 2017 - Jackass OH GOD THE SKY IS FALLING!! but yeah...primaris...new meta...great 8th isn't even out and already I gotta listen to jerkwads go on and on about meta gaming...jesus I hate 40k again Link to comment
Race Bannon Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 There are plenty of ways to release your anger: doing anything else than participating in the thing you hate ^_^ But I hate Tic Tac Toe. I don't play that game. And I certainly don't talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 What supposed industry standard is this that the current marines look lackluster compared to? There are other companies doing great stuff yes, but i cant think of anything markedly technically superior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 OH GOD THE SKY IS FALLING!! but yeah...primaris...new meta...great 8th isn't even out and already I gotta listen to jerkwads go on and on about meta gaming...jesus I hate 40k again Your social skills are lacking . Keyword < Lacking > . I don't care much for 8th and there is plenty of material on the web to justify my dislike . But I don't hate it. The primmies are nice models I may get some if they come Multipart models down the road . I don't hate them I think their fluffy was written by an 8yr old to sell to an 8 yr . Just because some people don't like them is not a reason to call them names which you seem to make a habit of . Have a nice day mate . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I feel like when anyone makes the "well they are only doing this because they will sell! They should release a faction that will actually please the fans!" argument they are overlooking something very obvious: if GW releases one release over another because it will sell better those ARE the models that will please the most fans. If people didn't want and enjoy the new stuff it just wouldn't sell. Honestly the fact that GW ever releases new models for the really unpopular lines like Dark Eldar shows that they DO in fact care about all their fans and their decisions are not in fact based solely on profits. If that were the case all we would ever see would be Space Marine releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triszin Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 natfka supposedly leaked the rules for the repulsor tank. Transport 7 Only transports Primaris marines.... wow cool. I think I'll skip the buy, since i guess my normal marines arent cool enough to ride in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Natfka? Yeah, I'll wait for official word :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickSix Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 What supposed industry standard is this that the current marines look lackluster compared to? There are other companies doing great stuff yes, but i cant think of anything markedly technically superior Dreamforge games honestly was kicking GWs ass until they redid the marines and came out with the knight (which is still inferior to the Leviathan kit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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