Dark Imperium

[Izlude]

Definitely deserves its own thread

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/warhammer-40000-launch-date-announced-may22gw-homepage-post-1/

 

 

"Last up, for you Warhammer 40,000 fiction fans out there, we have the Dark Imperium novel from Guy Haley. This will be the first Black Library book (of many), set after the events of the Gathering Storm and starring the Primarch Roboute Guilliman, the new Primaris Space Marines and their mortal (and in some cases immortal) enemies, the Death Guard."

 

Have to say super psyched for this one! Hope there is good dialogue and not silly SM vs Ork battle (looking at you Guilliman Primarch Series). Not a big 40k person but be cool to see Guilliman interact with the current UMs like Calger. Who knows with the Death Guard...may have words with another Primarch. Although in HH I don't recall Guilliman interacting much with Magnus and Mortarian.

 

Have to say all his HH stuff has been great stuff and in my eyes saved The Beast Arises with The Beheading." 

[JH79]

I feel safe in Guy Haley's hands and really hope he has the freedom within the constrains of the story he has to tell to explore Guilliman's mindset. So much time has passed for him and the change between old and new Imperium so impossibly stark, i think any normal human would have a mental breakdown at trying to quantify that and ground themselves in the here and now.

 

Will he challenge people to a new (old!) way of thinking or would that be too much too soon... "give me a theoretical Calgar",

[b1soul]

People can be surprisingly adaptable...I'm sure Rob will keep his cool

[Petitioner's City]

How old was Guilleman when he 'died' - it was a few hundred years after the Heresy, right? 

 

But I do hope Haley embraces a 'man out of time' aspect to Roboute - but I wonder what guise? The righteous indignation of Taylor in Planet of the Apes (1968), the utopian turtleneck aspirations of La Jetee (1962), the occasional comic moments of The Voyage Home or Back to the Future or Futurama, or something else? 

 

Since it is a huge trope in sci-fi, I'm curious how he will do it. Honestly I hope there are some allusions to Gene Wolfe's Urth of the Sun or Soldier of Sidon somehow :D 

[HeritorA]

How old was Guilleman when he 'died' - it was a few hundred years after the Heresy, right?

But I do hope Haley embraces a 'man out of time' aspect to Roboute - but I wonder what guise? The righteous indignation of Taylor in Planet of the Apes (1968), the utopian turtleneck aspirations of La Jetee (1962), the occasional comic moments of The Voyage Home or Back to the Future or Futurama, or something else?

Since it is a huge trope in sci-fi, I'm curious how he will do it. Honestly I hope there are some allusions to Gene Wolfe's Urth of the Sun or Soldier of Sidon somehow

Second the 'Sidon' note

But Robi in general is not Latro or Xerxes. New resurrected Guilli is more like a case if Caesar was resurrected after the stabing.

As for the Haley - he could do it right, but at the same time he could fail gloriesly if he will follow in the footsteps of the GS lore-writers.

Also he need a big bad to fight against. Some DG corpulent lord of daemon is not a threat against Guilliman that would make us worry even a little. The case of Guilli vs Morty on a contrary would add the needed level of menace and threat to the novel.

[Kelborn]

Yeah, RG vs Morty would be a good start to go with.

 

Assumed that it's done right. The RG vs Magnus fight was a bit of a let down and full of questions and golly gee moments.

 

And after that, let the Khan return, telling RG to get off of his prey. :D

[JH79]

Also he need a big bad to fight against. Some DG corpulent lord of daemon is not a threat against Guilliman that would make us worry even a little. The case of Guilli vs Morty on a contrary would add the needed level of menace and threat to the novel.

If Mortarion were to show up I'd damn well expect Supreme Grand Master Kaldor Draigo to teleport in, open up a whole can of whoop ass on his Demon infested flesh and high five big G before zipping off again!

I may have mentioned it before by Mortarion's Heart is one of my fave audiodrama's, and yes Kaldor Draigo is my hero! lol

[1000 Sons]

Primarchs talking together in 40k times is very interesting.

[Servant of Dante]

As long as he writes Drago completely off his rocker, I'm ok with this hypothetical

[HeritorA]

Also he need a big bad to fight against. Some DG corpulent lord of daemon is not a threat against Guilliman that would make us worry even a little. The case of Guilli vs Morty on a contrary would add the needed level of menace and threat to the novel.

If Mortarion were to show up I'd damn well expect Supreme Grand Master Kaldor Draigo to teleport in, open up a whole can of whoop ass on his Demon infested flesh and high five big G before zipping off again!

I may have mentioned it before by Mortarion's Heart is one of my fave audiodrama's, and yes Kaldor Draigo is my hero! lol

Draigo fluff is an abomination. Do not mention that Heresy Probably the worst Mary Sue in all the W40K. Even worse then Guilliman.

Primarchs talking together in 40k times is very interesting.

Depends on how tis written lol If written poorly it would be a disaster.

As long as he writes Drago completely off his rocker, I'm ok with this hypothetical

Nobody can fix Draigo - he was born Mary Sue

[Midgard]

I wonder if Haley will take the easier route of using Guilliman as a peripheral character - perhaps a mentor, a distant general who sets out a mission for the heroes, or something similar. This has the effect of, first, not requiring a scaled-up antagonist (if the main character is a Primaris or an older mark Marine, the key themes might be more about showcasing the changing galaxy, dealing with the new breed of warriors, proving oneself in the eyes of the Primarch, etc.); and, second, not using up all of the dramatic license on a larger-than-life character who has been portrayed very well in the Heresy series. Of course, Haley did have a bit of Guilliman in "Pharos", and I thought that Haley gave him a decent treatment, so it is not like he has no experience working with larger-than-life demigods in the setting...

[b1soul]

I would the main characters to be a Primaris and an original Astartes.

 

The interactions should be interesting.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Primaris only a little bit better...maybe 5% better performance.

 

5% (or 1.05x the performance) is a significant edge but not overwhelming

 

For reference, the difference between the average man and average woman is about 1.50x according to this:

 

According to the National Strength and Conditioning Association, women generally produce about two-thirds the amount of total strength and applied force that men produce. Women are also physically built so that they generally carry two-thirds as much muscle mass as men.

[HeritorA]

I would the main characters to be a Primaris and an original Astartes.

 

The interactions should be interesting.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Primaris only a little bit better...maybe 5% better performance.

 

5% (or 1.05x the performance) is a significant edge but not overwhelming

 

For reference, the difference between the average man and average woman is about 1.50x according to this:

 

According to the National Strength and Conditioning Association, women generally produce about two-thirds the amount of total strength and applied force that men produce. Women are also physically built so that they generally carry two-thirds as much muscle mass as men.

 

Primaris as mentioned by Q and A sessions are 30 % more efficient than SM LOL

[Kelborn]

And where are Custodes and Grey Knights in this ranking?

 

Still on top?

[HeritorA]

And where are Custodes and Grey Knights in this ranking?

 

Still on top?

Сustodes still better than Astartes or Primaris Astartes.

GK always were outside the scope. They are all high level psykers - astartes only librarians.

[DogWelder]

 

And where are Custodes and Grey Knights in this ranking?

 

Still on top?

Сustodes still better than Astartes or Primaris Astartes.

GK always were outside the scope. They are all high level psykers - astartes only librarians.

 

Honestly I'm rather unimpressed by the Custodes.

 

Maybe it's because of their portrayal in the Horus Heresy books. I mean, they put up quite a fight but in the end they always end up losing to Astartes. This was demonstrated in first heretic where they took down the Custodes sent to watch over Lorgar with moderate casualties.

 

Then again in the Garro collection, where a Custodes gets beaten in a 1v1 match against Garro and later gets gunned down by a squad of traitor White Scars.

 

Then again in the Outcast Dead, where an unarmed World Eater rips a Custode's head off and a Thousand Sons sorcerer takes one down.

[b1soul]

In MoM, they outclass Astartes...

 

In FW Inferno, they murder stomp Astartes (not that I like it)

[bluntblade]

So far, Inferno's power level for them sounds a tad off.

 

Accurate bolter fire from ten Astartes sounds more than adequate. The Orks of Gorro are shown killing Custodes, not in significant numbers, but still killing them

[Medjugorje]

I hope that other "normal" marines see them like one Kind of their own.

 

But I want to know what Space Marine Chapters are in. With Guy H. it can be the Black Templars esp. because of their heroic stand up in the gathering storm books.

[b1soul]

.

Accurate bolter fire from ten Astartes sounds more than adequate.

In First Heretic, accurate bolter fire from 1 marine was sufficient to take out Vendatha

[veterannoob]

Just interviewed Guy again last night for Dante. excited for Dark Imperium and will be having him on to discuss it soon after its release. :) 

[bluntblade]

 

.

Accurate bolter fire from ten Astartes sounds more than adequate.

In First Heretic, accurate bolter fire from 1 marine was sufficient to take out Vendatha

Don't forget the short sword through the face.

[DarkChaplain]

Just interviewed Guy again last night for Dante. excited for Dark Imperium and will be having him on to discuss it soon after its release.

Just saw what follows on from Dante aka the Devastation of Baal and can't say I'm happy with it. Here's hoping Guy can rock the novel at least.

Guilliman really needs to stop being everywhere at once, though. It just doesn't make sense.

[JH79]

 

Honestly I'm rather unimpressed by the Custodes.

Maybe it's because of their portrayal in the Horus Heresy books. I mean, they put up quite a fight but in the end they always end up losing to Astartes. This was demonstrated in first heretic where they took down the Custodes sent to watch over Lorgar with moderate casualties.

 

Then again in the Garro collection, where a Custodes gets beaten in a 1v1 match against Garro and later gets gunned down by a squad of traitor White Scars.

 

Then again in the Outcast Dead, where an unarmed World Eater rips a Custode's head off and a Thousand Sons sorcerer takes one down.

Some points here a quite valid, I think the most obvious being Garro. In theory he should of been on his ass in 3 hits, but it is what it is. Outcast Dead i think was part justifiable as the Custodian in question was removed from what he saw as front line service due to an injury or something to that effect? I've not listened to Outcast in about 3 years so will have to re-visit soon.

 

I would argue the case in The First Heretic though... Ven faces 5 Astartes and 1 Primarch. Odd's are 100% against him, however he gives a good account of himself and is only truly undone by his own actions, that being to focus too much on Lorgar and stop for a few heart beats and speak. Looking at the scene he starts by knocking Argel Tal out of the picture, butchers 3 WB's in 3 seconds then stops to face Lorgar with Xaphen in his way toting a fully loaded bolter. Ven has his own spear & bolter ready to go, but still stops to speak. No matter how great a Custodian you are a face full of bolt shell's is near enough game over and Xaphen fires first with Argel Tal almost finishing the job moments later from a distance. Perfectly reasonable and horrendous to witness as the reader.

 

You could argue though that if Ven had focused on killing the 5 Astartes only and not stopping to accuse Lorgar of being a total nut job that things may have ended differently. Keep moving, relentless momentum, butcher the lot, run from Lorgar and call Aquillon when you're out of the cave system... then talk to him all you want.

 

The rest of the novel re-enforces just how good Custodians are in simple one on one combat with Aquillon's duels against Argel Tal. The only time he even half stands a chance is post demon upgrade.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Just interviewed Guy again last night for Dante. excited for Dark Imperium and will be having him on to discuss it soon after its release.

Just saw what follows on from Dante aka the Devastation of Baal and can't say I'm happy with it. Here's hoping Guy can rock the novel at least.

Guilliman really needs to stop being everywhere at once, though. It just doesn't make sense.

I guess Guilliman has the same teleporter Varys has in GoT