Deathwatch Leaked Rules

[SnakeChisler]

 

Yeah, teleport homers are an exclusive thing to the deathwatch now.  With no scatter they no longer serve a purpose

 

Incorrect on both accounts. Homers are now tokens, which works sort of like servo skulls, and instead of moving you can teleport the unit within 6" of the token. The token is removed if an enemy unit comes within 9" of it. 

 

It is completely different from homers before and they are available to other space marine terminators.

 

 

From a 1st impression the teleport puts you within 6" of the homing beacon but there doesn't seem to be the same restriction of being 9" away from an enemy unit so were back onto frag cannon time

 

Poison rounds are a real crux of the army enabling wounding High T models on 2's & with wounds going through the roof on some models its a huge thing as is the -3 ammo.

 

Pulling models off as you wish means the biker out in front followed by the vanguard vet extends your charge threat range if you take the size of bases into account.

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

Thoughts....

Xenophase is now only 7 so thats nice, wish it was D3 like power weapons though, then it would be auto include.

only Vanguard can take Heavy Thunder Hammer, which is crap as it is only in the kill team box of vets. it also got worse in that it is str x2 instead of str 10. should also be moral wounds on a 6+ instead of 6 damage on a roll of 6.

I am a bit upset that all our tactics are gone for rerolling wounds and reroll hits is only with a watch master or captain. >

Xenopurge on a shotgun is nice that it does 2 dmg

Stalker pattern boltgun DOES NOT HAVE SNIPER!!! almost useless compared to a normal boltgun.

Teleport homer for free will be an auto include but all that give me is a free retreat. I don't know how that is good.

Black shields are useless you want "2 sergeants". USELESS!!!!

While its nice that the watch master is cheaper, he is boring as hell.

Overall, I would not exactly call this a good ruleset for us. I hope they come up with a stand alone codex soon that gives us more.

Its going to take a while to figure out how to make this work. I think the real power is in the section Mixed Unit that adds the respective Terminator, Bikes, Jumpack keywords.

I think that means that is you have a terminator, the whole group gets Teleport Strike. Add a bike and the unit gets turbo boost of 6" on advancing. No bonus yet on jumpack I would assume because no keyword vanguard veteran.

Um...."Any Veteran can take a Heavy Thunder Hammer". It's right there on the datasheet. :)

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

I think one thing to keep in mind is the FACTION section on Page 240 of the rulebook.  This means we can really take ANY Imperium unit in the same detachment...so you can add Predators, Centurons, Inquisitors, whatever to your army and fill in the "gaps".

 

Yeah, I thought as much. The only drawback is that they will not share the same benefits the Deathwatch has. No need for allied detachments and all that :cuss. :D

[Lysere]

Thoughts....

 

Xenophase is now only 7 so thats nice, wish it was D3 like power weapons though, then it would be auto include.

 

only Vanguard can take Heavy Thunder Hammer, which is crap as it is only in the kill team box of vets. it also got worse in that it is str x2 instead of str 10. should also be moral wounds on a 6+ instead of 6 damage on a roll of 6.

 

I am a bit upset that all our tactics are gone for rerolling wounds and reroll hits is only with a watch master or captain. >:(

 

Xenopurge on a shotgun is nice that it does 2 dmg

 

Stalker pattern boltgun DOES NOT HAVE SNIPER!!! almost useless compared to a normal boltgun.

 

Teleport homer for free will be an auto include but all that give me is a free retreat. I don't know how that is good.

 

Black shields are useless you want "2 sergeants". USELESS!!!!

 

While its nice that the watch master is cheaper, he is boring as hell.

 

Overall, I would not exactly call this a good ruleset for us. I hope they come up with a stand alone codex soon that gives us more.

 

Its going to take a while to figure out how to make this work. I think the real power is in the section Mixed Unit that adds the respective Terminator, Bikes, Jumpack keywords.

 

I think that means that is you have a terminator, the whole group gets Teleport Strike. Add a bike and the unit gets turbo boost of 6" on advancing. No bonus yet on jumpack I would assume because no keyword vanguard veteran.

Not quite right.

 

Power weapons do 1 damage, force do d3 so xenophase still beats out normal power weapon options for the most part.

 

Regular vets do have heavy hammer access.

 

Black shields have more attacks and make it easier and allows the unit to pile in out of sequence to support another squad. (Only the squad charged can be targeted allowing you to use a hard hitting melee unit to counter attack the enemies assault unit)

 

Stalker bolters are meant for squads that don't plan on moving. Double the shots at range is quite good if you're never within rapid fire range.

 

Watch master is a bit better in most regards but yes lack of options is rather meh.

 

Tactics will probably come back when we get a codex as no marine factions have tactics to begin with.

[Scurvydog]

You are correct, my mistake on the teleport homers. I just breezed over the other sections.

Still, Shotguns seem legit with the options, especially with overwatch. It seems like we can use the teleport homers to get out of combat as well without counting as falling back. Hummmm so excited!!!!

Need to start pointing things out but our veterans are 19 points base since boltguns are free.

Also holy those frag cannons!!! Nicee........

Also FINE I will buy some corvus blackstars jeez. Nice that units dont auto die from fliers any more than regular transports now. Its a nice change.

Well shotguns cost 5 points, and 15 for storm shields. 39 points for a 1 wound guy with a shotgun seems expensive, I think I might prefer a termiantor in my killteam instead when you enter that pricerange.

Our winner model is the Corvus blackstar, without the reserve nonsense rolls, tough model and ok weapons (not as impressive as a stormtalon for the points though).

To put it into perspective though, transports are more expensive now, Rhinos at 70 points and drop pods 103 baseline, wow.

[MeltaRange]

I think one thing to keep in mind is the FACTION section on Page 240 of the rulebook. This means we can really take ANY Imperium unit in the same detachment...so you can add Predators, Centurons, Inquisitors, whatever to your army and fill in the "gaps".

Yeah, I thought as much. The only drawback is that they will not share the same benefits the Deathwatch has. No need for allied detachments and all that .

It's not going to matter much for most units. All you really lose is like the Watch Master's reroll bubble and SIA. So like a Predator, Centurion Devastators, Joekaro Weaponsmiths, Ravenwing Landspeeders, whatever can be added right into the SAME detachment.

[Moostick]

I really can't swallow the 15 pts for SS when SM gets them for 5 pts (15 for characters). Our VV have essentially been gutted.

 

Also take note that while special weapon + SS is still legal, heavy weapon + SS is now illegal. So no more FC + SS, but for +45 points I doubt anyone would take it anyways.

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

 

 

Yeah, teleport homers are an exclusive thing to the deathwatch now.  With no scatter they no longer serve a purpose

 

Incorrect on both accounts. Homers are now tokens, which works sort of like servo skulls, and instead of moving you can teleport the unit within 6" of the token. The token is removed if an enemy unit comes within 9" of it. 

 

It is completely different from homers before and they are available to other space marine terminators.

 

 

From a 1st impression the teleport puts you within 6" of the homing beacon but there doesn't seem to be the same restriction of being 9" away from an enemy unit so were back onto frag cannon time

 

Poison rounds are a real crux of the army enabling wounding High T models on 2's & with wounds going through the roof on some models its a huge thing as is the -3 ammo.

 

Pulling models off as you wish means the biker out in front followed by the vanguard vet extends your charge threat range if you take the size of bases into account.

 

 

 

I think the standard principle of having to be 9 inches away will still apply in that situation. 

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

I think one thing to keep in mind is the FACTION section on Page 240 of the rulebook. This means we can really take ANY Imperium unit in the same detachment...so you can add Predators, Centurons, Inquisitors, whatever to your army and fill in the "gaps".

Yeah, I thought as much. The only drawback is that they will not share the same benefits the Deathwatch has. No need for allied detachments and all that .

It's not going to matter much for most units. All you really lose is like the Watch Master's reroll bubble and SIA. So like a Predator, Centurion Devastators, Joekaro Weaponsmiths, Ravenwing Landspeeders, whatever can be added right into the SAME detachment.

Yeah, so long as we go for the general detachments. I would imagine future Detachments will be chapter exclusive and all that.

[leth]

Yeah, I think that is something that needs to be FAQed or updated in regards to the storm shield.  If I had to guess there might be some instructions on how to use things that are across different books since we dont have anything laying out how you pay for things that dont show up in our wargear list(we can assume that you pull the points from the space marine section but still)

[Moostick]

I'm being a very large Debbie Downer right now, so apologies, but the IHB also still sucks.

 

Sure you can fire both weapons, but if you moved, your 3 HB shots hit on a 5+ only. Also, if you're in 8" range to fire both, for 5 pts more, your FC can fire 2D6 with a better profile that all auto hit.

 

So no. The IHB is still not worth it. They still look really awesome though.

[Polak]

Thoughts....

Xenophase is now only 7 so thats nice, wish it was D3 like power weapons though, then it would be auto include.

only Vanguard can take Heavy Thunder Hammer, which is crap as it is only in the kill team box of vets. it also got worse in that it is str x2 instead of str 10. should also be moral wounds on a 6+ instead of 6 damage on a roll of 6.

I am a bit upset that all our tactics are gone for rerolling wounds and reroll hits is only with a watch master or captain. >

Xenopurge on a shotgun is nice that it does 2 dmg

Stalker pattern boltgun DOES NOT HAVE SNIPER!!! almost useless compared to a normal boltgun.

Teleport homer for free will be an auto include but all that give me is a free retreat. I don't know how that is good.

Black shields are useless you want "2 sergeants". USELESS!!!!

While its nice that the watch master is cheaper, he is boring as hell.

Overall, I would not exactly call this a good ruleset for us. I hope they come up with a stand alone codex soon that gives us more.

Its going to take a while to figure out how to make this work. I think the real power is in the section Mixed Unit that adds the respective Terminator, Bikes, Jumpack keywords.

I think that means that is you have a terminator, the whole group gets Teleport Strike. Add a bike and the unit gets turbo boost of 6" on advancing. No bonus yet on jumpack I would assume because no keyword vanguard veteran.

Um...."Any Veteran can take a Heavy Thunder Hammer". It's right there on the datasheet.

Yeah you're right. I seem to have overglossed that entry on the killteam datasheet XD But still all we wanted was blackshields with HTH :(

[SnakeChisler]

Just a noticed this the new rules state you can advance on top of moving and assault weapons allow you to fire if you do both

 

-1 to hit though mmm wonder if that matters if you auto hit ;)

 

Anyway shotguns and frag cannons as well as the Infernus get a boost from that rule 

 

Usual GW you can't shoot if you advance which is rock solid written in stone till you read the assault weapon rule which states Even If you advanced you get to shoot with it.

[Lexicanum]

If we take a Watch Captain using the vanilla Marine Captain datasheet, he doesn't have SIA, does he?

 

That seems like an issue given that Artemis has SIA.

 

And Chaplains and Librarians using the vanilla datasheet have the same issue, right?

 

Am I missing something?

[leth]

Probably an oversight, I dont know of anyone who would object to you getting your special rule. 

[SnakeChisler]

If we take a Watch Captain using the vanilla Marine Captain datasheet, he doesn't have SIA, does he?

 

That seems like an issue given that Artemis has SIA.

 

And Chaplains and Librarians using the vanilla datasheet have the same issue, right?

 

Am I missing something?

 

A few pages of the data sheets at a guess or the other guess is everything will get fleshed out at a later date once the initial hit and feedback has settled us all in and were using vanilla SM to fill the gaps. 

 

I'd expect quite a few typo's and some re-balancing once this hits the floor though we've been told the Frontline guys & others proof tested all of it so you'd hope for it to be generally water tight.

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

 

If we take a Watch Captain using the vanilla Marine Captain datasheet, he doesn't have SIA, does he?

 

That seems like an issue given that Artemis has SIA.

 

And Chaplains and Librarians using the vanilla datasheet have the same issue, right?

 

Am I missing something?

 

A few pages of the data sheets at a guess or the other guess is everything will get fleshed out at a later date once the initial hit and feedback has settled us all in and were using vanilla SM to fill the gaps. 

 

I'd expect quite a few typo's and some re-balancing once this hits the floor though we've been told the Frontline guys & others proof tested all of it so you'd hope for it to be generally water tight.

 

 

If a generic Captain replaces the CHAPTER keyword with DEATHWATCH, then he receives the Special Issue Ammo as well. 

[Mobius0288]

Likes:

- We still keep SIA (and why wouldn't it apply to combi's? It's a BOLTGUN AND special weapon)

- The xenophase blade has come way down in price (gonna have to redo some sergeants)

- Artemis looks pretty sweet, though nothing has changed (except unlimited use flamer now)

- Watchmaster seems better (slightly better statline, but same cost as Capt/Artemis?)

- Blackstar: LEGIT! Kinda odd it as an "A" value but its a vehicle without melee. I get what they're trying to do... but if I have only two weapons, can a previous weapon shoot again? So twin-linked assault cannon fired 2-3 times??

-- Love that the point cost went down for matched play

- Venerable dreadnaught appears to be a good choice! Instead of rerolling the damage chart, its got the undying ancient roll (ignore wound on a 6)

-- And price has come down a little bit

- Plasma is dope now, and the supercharged shot seems like a nice risk (maybe not for my precious dreadnaught though!)

 

Dislikes:

- Infernus price didn't come down and we lost assault attribute (having no effect on my stalker/infernus team for objective camping)

- Can't take twin linked lascannon razorbacks!

- Can't have 5 heavy weapons (aka 5 missles or 5 heavy flamers) in a vet squad

-- Probably ok since the auspex is still a good idea

- No more single unit terminators

- Limited terminator assault cannons/ cyclone missiles (3 heavy weapons per squad)

- No mention of the venerable dreadnaught character with the plasma cannon and extra save. hm....

 

Thoughts somewhere in the middle:

- No primaris stuff if you choose to build a Deathwatch army

- It could be possible to take an "imperial army" detachment and just include whatever? still kind of annoyed we couldn't get a couple more units though

-- Fingers crossed FW has something for us in the new Imperial Armor book

- DW Veteran prices have come down slightly but it looks like all other <space marine> squads have too

- Landraider still seems stupid expensive, forcing me to lean towards the blackstar

- Drop pod.... why? what? rhinos and blackstars clearly do it better, or I can teleport my Vanguard/Termies at will

[Boyadventurer]

Okay, so I'm not going to be able to digest everything until I'm done work later (or if it gets slow!), but two things to bring up for now:

 

I don't know why there was an expectation that we'd get anything new in this book. The indexes are only to cover the currently existing models since you won't get dataslate pages for the stuff you've already bought (and then plus Primaris and DG). No one got anything new in these books.

 

Now, if I understand this right, I can trade my veteran's bolter for a bolt pistol AND another bolter? 1) that's awesome, 2) it kinda feels like the original bolter/shotgun loophole again...

Glad the Watch Master is looking better now... too bad I just ripped one apart to make a librarian :S

[Moostick]

Just a noticed this the new rules state you can advance on top of moving and assault weapons allow you to fire if you do both

-1 to hit though mmm wonder if that matters if you auto hit

Anyway shotguns and frag cannons as well as the Infernus get a boost from that rule

Usual GW you can't shoot if you advance which is rock solid written in stone till you read the assault weapon rule which states Even If you advanced you get to shoot with it.

Assault got a "nerf" though in that any model can assault after shooting; even Rapid Fire and Heavy. An extra D6" can be useful, but the hilarious thing is that our melee focused unit, the VV, don't have assault weapons and they lost their innate ability to reroll charges.

The shining becon I see in this is that we can take 10x combi-plasmas and drop pod them under 12" away. Anything and everything we want will die from this.

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

Okay, so I'm not going to be able to digest everything until I'm done work later (or if it gets slow!), but two things to bring up for now:

 

I don't know why there was an expectation that we'd get anything new in this book. The indexes are only to cover the currently existing models since you won't get dataslate pages for the stuff you've already bought (and then plus Primaris and DG). No one got anything new in these books.

 

Now, if I understand this right, I can trade my veteran's bolter for a bolt pistol AND another bolter? 1) that's awesome, 2) it kinda feels like the original bolter/shotgun loophole again...

 

Glad the Watch Master is looking better now... too bad I just ripped one apart to make a librarian :S

 

I personally hoped we'd have existing models like the Apothecary to be a part of the Deathwatch myself. 

[Moostick]

 

- Can't take twin linked lascannon razorbacks!

 

 

Before anyone dismantles their Razorback, the writing can be confusing, but you still can. I had to do a double take as well.

 

A new option they have now is a regular Lascannon and plasma, which is what we can't take. We can still take a twin-linked Lascannon.

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

It's a bit disappointing that we can't take full advantage of the <CHAPTER> keyword, if not surprising. We'll see what the eventual codex entails.

[Lysere]

Okay, so I'm not going to be able to digest everything until I'm done work later (or if it gets slow!), but two things to bring up for now:

 

I don't know why there was an expectation that we'd get anything new in this book. The indexes are only to cover the currently existing models since you won't get dataslate pages for the stuff you've already bought (and then plus Primaris and DG). No one got anything new in these books.

 

Now, if I understand this right, I can trade my veteran's bolter for a bolt pistol AND another bolter? 1) that's awesome, 2) it kinda feels like the original bolter/shotgun loophole again...

 

Glad the Watch Master is looking better now... too bad I just ripped one apart to make a librarian :S

The bolter shotgun table says you can only have one of them, and it's a one time swap so no infinite pistols or anything.

[Boyadventurer]

 

Okay, so I'm not going to be able to digest everything until I'm done work later (or if it gets slow!), but two things to bring up for now:

 

I don't know why there was an expectation that we'd get anything new in this book. The indexes are only to cover the currently existing models since you won't get dataslate pages for the stuff you've already bought (and then plus Primaris and DG). No one got anything new in these books.

 

Now, if I understand this right, I can trade my veteran's bolter for a bolt pistol AND another bolter? 1) that's awesome, 2) it kinda feels like the original bolter/shotgun loophole again...

 

Glad the Watch Master is looking better now... too bad I just ripped one apart to make a librarian :S

The bolter shotgun table says you can only have one of them, and it's a one time swap so no infinite pistols or anything.

 

But you can swap for 2 items, one of which being from the "rifles" list, correct? It's just that same sort of idea behind "why wouldn't you swap the bolter for a bolter+shotgun for free?" to "why wouldn't you swap the bolter for a bolter+bolt pistol for free?" which makes me worried.