Matched Play Psychic Phase Rule of 1

[Gentlemanloser]

This is such a ridiculous restriction on us (and other Psyker Heavy armies).

 

It doesn't impact those armies that have one or two Psykers availably to them.

 

But for us, every unit (including our Dreads!) are Psykers, and we get a nerfed Smite in response.

 

But out of our three powers, we can only manifest each once per turn.

 

So one unit can GoI.  One unit can Hammerhand itself.

 

Ridiculous.

 

It (along with the Imperium Faction Keyword), pushes us to take units like SM (or BA/SW etc) Librarians over Grey Knight Librarians.

 

As their individual power could be cast alongside out other units using Hammerhand already.

 

This is such a stupidly restrictive rule we really need something GK specific that get around it.  But I guess we're waiting in the cold until our individual Codex finally gets published...

 

This single rule has sucked the majority of enjoyment I had for 8th edition out of me, and has got me looking elsewhere for armies to use, other than my rather bland Grey Knights.

 

/sadpanda

[Lysere]

Remember this rule is for full matched play only. Any narrative or friendly game can ignore this rule.

 

Also with the fact that every single payer can use their powers without having to manage warp dice and such anymore it is now much easier to cast and this balances that against armies that have no way to counter them.

 

Also expect anti psyker units to have their abilities toned down a bit, like the culexus or sisters of silence.

 

Also you may have more powers in the future when you get a full codex rather than the stop gap index.

[Valerian]

This one is definitely worth complaining to the Studio about, so they can fix it for us.  Good point that you raised about just taking a 'regular' SM Librarian, so at least you can access a few more non-duplicate powers to use.  Haven't looked at their powers yet, but I'm sure there are some with utility.  

 

So, we still get a Psychic phase, and can do some good stuff with it, but we can't rely on it to do our work for us in 8e.  

 

Might just drop the Librarian that was mandatory in 7e, and just take Voldus (who gets access to everything on his own).  Spend those Librarian points elsewhere in the army.  

[Holier Than Thou]

Yeah, definitely needs sorting. It's not like we are making a conscious choice to pick a lot of Psykers, we literally don't have a choice. So we are effectively paying for powers that we cannot cast.

[Gentlemanloser]

Culexes and sisters are harsh.

 

Sister can give up to a -4 on the menifestation roll.

 

Culexes gives a flat -2

 

Both together and your not casting anything!

[Holier Than Thou]

This one is definitely worth complaining to the Studio about, so they can fix it for us.  Good point that you raised about just taking a 'regular' SM Librarian, so at least you can access a few more non-duplicate powers to use.  Haven't looked at their powers yet, but I'm sure there are some with utility.  

 

How would we go about raising this with the studio? It beggars belief that they tout the fact that we are a Chapter of Psykers and then impose such a restriction on us (and any other Psyker-heavy armies).

[Gentlemanloser]

Every unit can spam Smite every Psychic Phase though!!

 

 

[Holier Than Thou]

Every unit can spam Smite every Psychic Phase though!!

 

:teehee:

 

Well, they can spam Smite-lite. But if they have put the rule in for the purposes of balance, why let us spam the power that causes a guaranteed Mortal Wound. We could potentially kill Gulliman without laying a finger on him and he'd have no defence against it (very unlikely but still possible).

[Valerian]

 

This one is definitely worth complaining to the Studio about, so they can fix it for us.  Good point that you raised about just taking a 'regular' SM Librarian, so at least you can access a few more non-duplicate powers to use.  Haven't looked at their powers yet, but I'm sure there are some with utility.  

How would we go about raising this with the studio? It beggars belief that they tout the fact that we are a Chapter of Psykers and then impose such a restriction on us (and any other Psyker-heavy armies).

 

 

They'll be initiating a new feedback and Q&A feature through Warhammer Community soon.

[hmk17]

Where was this item posted initially? 

[Gentlemanloser]

The rule of 1?

 

It's under the matched play section of the core rulebook.

 

I know it's not in narrative. But i don't expect to be playing any narrative games. And when i do, I'm null deploying my entire army for 3 rounds. ;)

 

Becuase the half army on table is another matched only rule.

[Prot]

I personally don't think it is a ridiculous limitation. Frankly I got sick of annihilating people in one phase of the game and some armies simply have zilch to deal with it.

 

Don't forget in anything  other than match you can do what you want.

 

I think more powers are coming.... and it will change the overall feel of the phase, but until then I think they did an admirable job picking up the rest of the codex so it can compete at a different level.

[Gentlemanloser]

1 hammerhand per turn Prot?

 

Plus it's better for us to pick a SM libby and a rune priest over two GK libbies?

 

It just doesn't work for our army.

[Prot]

It's okay to make assessments, but you haven't played a single game.

 

The Psychic phase was a ridiculous mess. It was too long, too complicated, and over powered. 

 

For the sake of argument, I do understand that this is a down turn in the competitive level of the army, but strictly from a Psychic Phase point of view. (I do play a lot of Psychic heavy armies)

 

GW claims they playtested.... thoroughly. They have compensated these armies fairly well. The Grey Knight army as a whole looks so much more functional than it did 24 hours ago.  The way Force weapons work alone takes one power off your to do list for good, and it's a permanent buff on probably the most potent army in the game to have it as standard.  And I'm sure you know the other buffs the army received. 

 

I don't know about you but I've played about... zero games of 8th, (Until about 24 hours of this post). I can't possibly declare it a bust based on zero games. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Prot

[Gentlemanloser]

Compensated?

 

I don't see that.

 

Strikes are garbage. Purifiers are nerfed. Termies are out classed by paladin who are in turn outclassed by custodians.

 

Our special weapons have been nerfed (which gives us little reson to field purgation squads again). Our signature psycannon is now worse than the nilla assault cannon.

 

There are characters who literally will never be used. I'm looking at crowe here.

 

Compensated? How?

 

By every squad able to choose a psychic power. And not being able to use it as 1 other squad already has?

 

Or by having the default psychic power nerfed. As all our units get it.

 

I don't need to play a game to see how the new rules (which i think are brilliant) have basically ruined our army.

 

The new imperium faction keyword removes focus from our army, by making us just another cog in the overall better wheel.

 

Apart from ndk (again) who for thier cheap cost look brutal with dual dreadfists, there appears to be little reason to field any grey knight units in an imperium army.

 

I'd really like to be shown some compensation. Becuase i don't see any.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Valerian]

1 hammerhand per turn Prot?

 

 

Hammerhand is a crap-ton better now.  You can wound any model in the game on a 5+ with hammerhand turned on.  1/3 chance of wounding Renegade Knight Titans with a Sword at Strength 4.  That's pretty boss, so I get why it's limited to a single unit per turn.  I don't love it, but I get it.

[Captain Coolpants]

I don't think I'd mind the 1 power per turn if we just had more powers to choose from. If we had double the powers I actually think this wouldn't as much of an issue since we rarely have much more than 6 squads on the field anyway.

 

At the moment, you're generally better off mixing and matching imperial psykers to broaden your psychic power pot. And is essentially still a version of super friends.

And we've had the rules for a day and we're noticing these things, and they claim to have playtested for months... I'm just hoping it all gets changed with our specific codex (if we get one that is)

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah. This whole play tested for ages and all units will be wanted.

 

That is so obviously not the case.

 

I don't know why i let myself believe GW this time.

 

Shame on me.

[Gentlemanloser]

Off the top of my head an amendment to the rule of 1.

 

A single unit can only attempt the same power once.

 

For sucessive manifestations of the same power in a single turn, increase the warp charge cost by 1 each time.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Bartali]

I'd really like to be shown some compensation. Becuase i don't see any.

 

Rules for my other army (BA) leaked first, and it was a bit of a shock. Once other armies started getting released it didn't feel too bad as there where all in the same boat.

 

However, for GK, they seem to have come off worse than most. Balance seems to be out as there's just some units you wouldn't ever take. GK guns aren't as good as the vanilla ones, you'll most likely be relying on the more vanilla units in our army - Dreads, Razors and Stormravens for shooting (anything that was twin-linked). Rule of one hurts too until we hopefully get an expanded psychic table with the codex.

 

On the Razors subject, the detachment seem to imply we can take a dedicated transport for any unit we select in the army. Is this right ? Can we take a Razor for a Terminator unit (even though they can't ride in it ?). Doesn't seem to be a restriction ?

Edited June 1, 2017 by Bartali

[Gentlemanloser]

No restriction on type of unit, only on number.

 

We can take a Dedicated Transport, for every 2 units we take, regardless of what those units are, or even if they can ride in the transport or not.

 

We could field any army of nothing by TDA units and still take x amount of Rhinos.

 

The Detachments are so open, the flexibility is wonderful as a player, but I laugh at GWs stated desire to reward 'fluff' and punish players ust picking the most op combination of units.

 

As they've made it *easier* to do so.

[Valerian]

No restriction on type of unit, only on number.

 

We can take a Dedicated Transport, for every 2 units we take, regardless of what those units are, or even if they can ride in the transport or not.

 

 

We can take a Dedicated Transport for every other ( not Dedicated Transports.) unit we take.  So, 3 GKT squads plus 1 Brother-Captain means you can take 4 Rhinos.  When they use the term 'other' in the rules, they're talking about all of the selections that are not Dedicated Transports.  

 

V

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah, I didn't read it like that, but can see my confusion.

 

Three things I'd like FAQed now.

 

1: Number of Dedicated Transports

2: Do same powers stack (like 2 Locus' from 2 Brother Captains)

3: Do units with aura buffs buff themselves

[Valerian]

 

 

 

3: Do units with aura buffs buff themselves

 

Somebody said that was addressed in the core rules, although I haven't gone looking for it myself.  Believe it is on a sidebar on one of the pages about Shooting phase.  The answer was 'Yes' which really increases the utility/performance of pretty much every character in the game now.

[Gentlemanloser]

So Stern buffs his own little ranged Smite.  Would be nice. :)

 

GW still need to weigh in on whether a B next to Stern also increases Sterns Smite a well.  And if so, is t actually double?  And would a second BC then quaruple the range?