Die for the Emperor, or die trying - AM 8th Index review

[Feral_80]

So, I guess everybody has read it by now. If yes, please share your feedback on my first impressions. If not, have a look.

Disclaimer: many, many people are complaining and yelling that the sky is falling, but I'll try to be balanced here. I play IG since 2nd edition (with a hiatus in-between) and it's always been my favourite army. I'm a big fan, but NOT a fanboy (I hope the difference is clear).

So...let's have a look. This is a selective look, but still decently comprehensive.
I'll follow the (somewhat odd) order of the Index, and list my pro/cons and verdict scheme.

1. Overview

Pros:

• Lots of choices, lots of inexpensive unit = it is easy to max out one of the large detachments, which provides good CP bonus. Even at 2.000 pts (which seems to be the new standard) it would not be impossible to field a brigade.
• Cheaper basic infantry
• Better Scions
• Much better (= no) vehicle squadrons (de facto), while still keeping the 1-3 tanks per slot option
• Better artillery, or sort of

Cons:

• No more platoons, no more combined squads. Yep...
• Vets are elites
• Worse tanks, esp. LR
• Regiments are back, but they do absolutely nothing special except providing keywords that limit the interaction to units from the same regiment. At the moment, it only makes sense to field Cadian or Catachan regiments because of their special characters (the usual guys)

2. Orders

Pros:

• Easier and quicker
• No more stronger orders limited to senior officers
• Good selection and very good flexibility, none seems useless.
• Generally, the single orders seem stronger than before. But...

Cons:

• Orders only affect <infantry> AND same <<regiment>> units (sniff...my Rough Riders; and no abhumans either)
• Very short range - increased by vox...
• ...BUT vox (whose cost is the same) quickly becomes expensive to use, because every squad will now need its own
• For the same reason, orders are actually less effective because of no combined squads. We'll need a lot of officers around to issue orders to all of our infantry

Verdict: OK - I can still live with these changes, and per se the orders are interesting. Orders are limited to 1 per unit per turn, of course.

3. Units

Company Commander (HQ)
A single Character who is a senior officer.

Pros:

• Very cheap
• senior officer = issues 2 orders/turn
• His profile is basically very familiar. Keep him cheap and hidden, he has ONE job on the field and that's it.

Cons:

• Can't think to any Con except for being more vulnerable due to having lost his CCS.

Verdict: Very good - this is the kind of guy that you want to have around. Possibly not as a warlord, but certainly very useful.


Tank Commander (HQ)
A single Character, inside a LR of any kind and with all usual options.

Pros:

• I'd say decently priced, compared to a normal LR (less than +35 pts base)
• For those points you get BS 3+ and can issue orders to other LR - 1 order/turn, among 3 orders (reminiscent of the old tank orders, but all much better)
• Cannot issue orders to other (tank) characters
• Can be taken alone, no need to take any other LR

Cons:

• Due to the LR profile, the Character keyword does nothing. He can still be targeted. This is understandable, however.
• More sadly, most LR builds seem to suck. See their entry. I still believe this guy is usable, however
• Cannot take HK missiles, which are now quite useless again

Verdict: Good - himself at least. The problem is his vehicle.


Master of Ordnance (HQ)
A single Character.

Pros:

• Quite cheap
• Improves artillery vehicles (you know which I mean) within 3"

Cons:

• Has a quite silly 1 use-only, small artillery attack
• Forces you to deploy all your artillery very close to each other
• His ability only works for targets over 36" away = against certain armies it will be completely useless
• He is a fragile force multiplier, so you can figure out. Again, keep cheap and well hidden

Verdict: Meh - quite disappointing due to his minimum range limitation (come on, artillery has lost that! Why hasn't he?!), but still valuable in some artillery-heavy armies.


Platoon commander (Elite)
A single Character that is also an officer.

Pros:

• Even cheaper than the Company Commander (33% less)
• Works exactly as above, but only 1 order/turn

Cons:

• Although the cheapest way to get orders, being an Elite takes up a slot in an already cramped sector
• His role seems better taken by a CC and/or a Tempestor Prime

Verdict: Almost ok - not as good as the CC or the Tempestor Prime, but can still useful. I'd rather use the Elite slot for something else, however.

Command Squad (Elite)
Fixed squad of 4 veterans. Basically, this is what you are left with when you take the Company Commander out of his old CCS.

Pros:

• All the many options that you would expect from the old CCS
• BS 3+ on likely the cheapest possible squad ever, and they can take 4x special weapons
• Regimental standard is very cheap, fluffy, and works ok
• Medi-pack is reasonably priced and is actually quite good - on a 4+ it can heal/revive a model from any <infantry> squad within 3"
• I'd say the vox is still ok, and can be shared by as many nearby officers as you want, but the way infantry works now (no platoon) probably makes this the weaker option for the squad

Cons:

• No defensive upgrades of any sort. They evaporate as soon as the enemy stares at them
• Eats an elite slot, so you cannot spam them - as it should, after all
• Despite being a Command Squad, they have no way to protect your Commanders.

Verdict: Useful and flexible - despite their limits, they are a convenient choice. Best used as a cheap tiny boost to nearby units or as a suicide squad. In the former case, give them only 1-2 among vox, medic, and standard, and nothing else. In the latter, give them 4x plasma/melta and, likely, a transport. They become a point sink if tooled up more than this.


Infantry Squad (Troops)
Here they are, our 10 basic grunts.

Pros:

• 1 pt cheaper per man - VERY nice
• I'd say they still have all of their usual weapon options, except for krak grenades (nobody used them anyway)
• Sgt can take a power weapon (no fist) and plasma pistol as very cheap upgrades, and they might be worth it (esp. the pistol)

Cons:

• No combined squads anymore. Gone. Goodbye. 10 grunts in the open, that's it.
• Will evaporate under enemy fire in no time, especially in lack of proper morale support (see Commissar). But, isn't this their role after all?
• Vox is probably not worth it for your line guardsmen

Verdict: Yes, still great - yes, losing platoons and combined squads is bad, and forces many AM players to revise their style. Fielding a horde will be difficult now, unless you resort to conscripts (below). However, not everything is lost. Perhaps it is good to rethink our way to play. Given the way orders and melee work now, it might be worth to run these guys with only 1 flamer in each squad, and no heavies...to keep them cheap, maximise FRFSRF effectiveness, and still give them a minimum of defensive potential.


Special Weapons Squad (Elite)
Still there. 6 guys with 3 specials.

Pros:

• As cheap as you would expect
• all 3 can take a demo charge: it is GOOD and dirty cheap, but unfortunately only one can be thrown per turn (grenade type)
• Great potential for suicide destruction

Cons:

• their BS 4+ makes them poor with everything that rolls to hit
• need a transport, which unfortunately is both expensive and does not allow them to fire from inside anymore...but see below
• due to the way disembarking works, they may be a little more difficult to use than before. But still usable, and orders help (esp. "forwards, for the Emperor!")

Verdict: Funky - I'd go with 1x demo charge+2x flamers or (better) 3x flamers here, nothing else. They will earn their price back almost guaranteed. Now, a Chimera or Valkyrie will just exactly hold 2 of these squads...


Heavy Weapons Squad (Heavy)
Still there. 3 teams.

Pros:

• Well, they now cost exactly the same as a single normal guard, which means you can spam them
• I mean, you can field 3x HB teams for 36 points.
• Stupidly low morale, but their small size means they are not very vulnerable to losses. And, they can take orders 100% reliably now.
• This *might* be the place for your heavy weapons, given the changes to Infantry squads. However...

Cons:

• ...yes, they are cheap, but their weapon upgrades are not necessarily so. While heavy bolters and mortars may be, the good ones are not that cheap after all, if you consider the durability of this squad.
• No vox means they'll likely need a dedicated officer taking care of them. You'll likely group many such units in a good position - you'd better bubble-wrap them well.
• They are still extremely fragile.
• I have no idea of what GW had in mind when they talked of 'HWT really providing fire support to your army' (or something like that). They will die, a lot.

Verdict: Meh - Yes, they are better than in the previous codex, but only seem worth it if you really spam them. Could be funny, but I don't like the concept. If they eventually put out decent models for these, I might change my mind


Veterans (Elite)
Our beloved 10-man BS 3+ squad.

Pros:

• More dakka than ever: can take 1x heavy, 3x special, AND 1x heavy flamer...

Cons:

• ...but I'm not sure I'd tool them up as such. HF might be effective, but it is really expensive now. And they won't last that much anyway: see below
• No doctrines anymore. Will die just as any other guard
• Pretty flavourless, no customization
• Such a missed opportunity to reintroduce cool stuff, such as more doctrines or their own junior officer in the squad
• Unchanged in points cost, i.e. they are now +2 pts over a guard
• Moved to Elite

Verdict: Poor - relatively speaking, at least. Really one of the worst entries. I can accept, fluff-wise, that they have been moved to Elites. But the lack of real customization is lame, and the Scions (see below) now look more interesting. Add that Chimeras are now much more expensive, AND you cannot fire from the top hatch anymore. I'm afraid the day of mechanised plasma and melta vets are gone, but this is not necessarily so bad. As they stand, I can't find a reason to field them anyway: they can be a decent counter-charge unit in a flamer-Chimera, but apparently a Command Squad can do it better and cheaper.

Conscripts (Troops)
Train young new soldiers and send them to massacre, for some grimdark reason.

Pros:

• 1 pt cheaper than before - dirty
• Your one and only way to field blobs, still 20-50
• Give them proper orders, a Commissar, and/or a Priest, and they can become scary

Cons:

• Not much to say. No options whatsoever
• Useless without proper support
• Given the way big units can be obliterated in melee, I'm not 100% sure they are a must-take now. You can achieve similar results with a clever positioning of several infantry squads, which shoot better, have many options, and do not cost that much more.

Verdict: Quite ok - not fearless anymore, but with the right support they are almost so. Personally, I hate the Cadian models so I won't field many of these, but they are certainly useful. You only need to keep that Commissar alive...


Rough Riders (Fast)
Charge!

Pros:

• 1 pt cheaper than before - better than nothing
• 2W each, thus more resilient against small arms fire - much needed
• Sgt can take very cheap power weapon and plasma pistol, now definitely worth it
• Up to 2 can swap lance for special weapons - not sure I'd do it
• Hunting lance is quite good, AND is no more 1-use only!
• Good flanking ability, basically an improved outflanking. And they can charge (under the usual limitations)

Cons:

• They are <cavalry>, thus can take no orders and get no Priest buffs
• At 1 attack each base at WS 4+, don't expect them to do much
• It might be the choice of the name, but the "trampling hooves" attack of their "purebreed steed" is a joke
• I guess that we'll need to wait for the FW codex for the real nasty ones from Krieg

Verdict: Usable, or almost so - they are a mobile countercharge unit, and you can have them close to where needed since they can enter from the side. However, I wouldn't expect them to kill more than 2 marines on a good day. Sad. If you are lucky, they *might* hurt a large target due to their d3 damage lance.


Scout Sentinels (Fast)
Ah, here they are.

Pros:

• Same *base* cost than before, which is quite good since many vehicles seem to have increased.
• A bit more durable than before, as all vehicles
• Well, they can Scout
• Fast, move 9"
• Perhaps a decent platform to deliver e heavy flamer...and not much else

Cons:

• Honestly, what's their use? When you add a weapon, their cost increases beyond worth
• They DO suffer -1 for moving and firing heavy, which is really disappointing given their supposed role
• With A1 at 4+, their close combat blade is a joke
• Very fragile, in any case

Verdict: Poor - not sure I can find a reason for using these, really. Objective grabbing perhaps, but not very reliable at that


Armoured Sentinels (Fast)
"Armoured" is quite a euphemism.

Pros:

• Only version that can mount a Plasma cannon, as before
• Only 5pts more than Scout Sentinels, and obviously they lose the scouting ability

Cons:

• Whereas old armoured sentinels were really substantially more armoured, these have *exactly* the same profile as Scout Sentinels, except for the armour save, which is 1 pt better, and the movement, which is 1" less. Not so exciting.
• All Cons of the Scout version.

Verdict: Poor - not sure I can find a reason for using these either, really. Possibly even less desirable than the Scout version, due to marginal improved durability and reduced movement. If only they could fire without penalties on the move, they'd be ok and fluffy, just like their Scout counterpart.


Chimera (ded. Transport)
An evergreen. I think?

Pros:

• 12 models capacity, good for 2x special weapons squads (above) or 4 Ogryns.
• The multilaser now frankly sucks; 2x HB will be better, but only on a static Chimera. 2x heavy flamer is great, but see below.

Cons:

• Lost all of its cool rules: no more command vehicle, no more lasgun arrays funny special rules (replaced by an uninspired version), not even amphibious anymore (yes, it was utterly useless - but we all loved it). And I guess you cannot fire from the hatch anymore.
• No autocannon option
• A transport that, while durable, is only good for very limited uses. Even the basic configuration will near 100 pts, and I'm not sure I'd want many of these now. Sad.

Verdict: Disappointing - I expected much more from our workhorse and signature transport. Couple it with the equally disappointing Vets, and there you are - I doubt we'll see them as often as before. The only good configuration of a Chimera I can think of at the moment is 2x heavy flamer, turning it into a mini-Hellhound...and just as expensive. Not convinced, except perhaps in a few cases.

Taurox (ded. Transport)
Now look who's back...

Pros:

• Cheap, decently durable, and packs quite a punch
• No options, but with its 2 autocannons it costs the same of a Chimera *without* weapons, and only loses 1 T from the profile. Save for a few special cases, the Taurox seems overall much better now.
• Faster than the Chimera
• Can even embark Ogryns, albeit only 3

Cons:

• Basically no customisation options
• Model is awful, but can be improved

Verdict: Promising - Gone are the days of AV 11/10 Tauroxes exploding on turn 1. This is a good, fast, and reasonably priced vehicle, and its weapons are good. It *will* hit something, and likely damage it, and has the range to stay out of trouble. It is generally superior to the Chimera, especially if you plan to use it as a static fire support platform, holding some counter-charge/fire unit in reserve behind your main line.


Hellhounds (Fast)
Burn the heretic, or at least try to.

Pros:

• Substantially cheaper than before
• The Chem cannon looks especially nasty, and will hurt most infantry quite badly

Cons:

• The Inferno cannon does not seem very scary, after all. Despite its double range, I find it not very appealing
• The Melta cannon is not very reliable, sadly, and is the most expensive of all. Also remember that it gets -1 hit on the move, thus becoming even less reliable
• No faster than a Chimera - sigh. Actually, same profile, except for +1W
• Overall decent, but not too inspired

Verdict: Usable, which become Great in the case of a Bane Wolf - The price drop certainly benefits these units. However, the titular Hellhound does not seem that good compared to the Bane Wolf, while the disappointing Devil Dog will often hit on 5s. Overall, I guess they are reasonable, but a bit lacklustre. At about 100 pts, however, you can certainly invest in a Bane Wolf or two, especially because their dangerous guns (always take a hull heavy flamer, of course) will not lose a drop of offensive potential until the vehicle itself is completely destroyed: a tough, cheap, and very dangerous deterrent to have around.

Basilisks (Heavy)
Well, compare it to its 7th version - now we're talking.

Pros:

• Comes stock at 100 pts + hull-mounted weapon: substantially cheaper
• Earthshaker cannon can be quite nasty, although not exactly devastating
• Potentially good against single, tough targets
• No minimum range, no indirect fire penalties, can target units out of sight
• Here's where you want that Master of Ordnance
• And that's why you want to take *at least* another artillery piece

Cons:

• Will average 2, perhaps 3 (with MoO) hits on target
• Will not hurt infantry that much, after all

Verdict: Usable - The price drop certainly benefits the Basilisk as well. Still, it hurts to see that its mighty cannon won't be that much of a concern for infantry.


Hydra (Heavy)
Nasty, nasty.

Pros:

• Quite impressive Heavy 8 autocannon
• will murder units that <fly>, and is still quite usable against the rest
• Good durability

Cons:

• Substantially more expensive than before
• No special abilities at all

Verdict: Encouraging - well, I'd say almost a must-take against fliers-heavy armies (and quite a lot of units now <fly>). We might be up to something here.


Wyvern (Heavy)
Surprise, surprise.

Pros:

• Still a rather NASTY gun
• 4d6 hits, still with shred
• Can hit out-of-sight units, and suffers no penalty for that
• Good durability
• A bit more expensive than before, but still very reasonably priced
• Excellent companion to your artillery compartment with a MoO

Cons:

• No more ignore cover, but that's ok

Verdict: Shining - we expected a heavy nerf for the Wyvern, and it did not come. Its price is reasonable, also because the thing is now much more durable. It will be much more difficult to score 20 hits on a unit now, BUT, on the other hand, unlike before this thing has now the potential to literally murder even single targets. I like it, and it will be a great partner to the Basilisk and the MoO.


Manticore (Heavy)
Well, wow.

Pros:

• Each missile is 2d6 hits
• High S, decent AP, d3 damage. What else?!
• Can hit out-of-sight units, and suffers no penalty for that
• Good durability
• Almost 50 pts cheaper than before!
• Excellent companion to your artillery compartment with a MoO

Cons:

• Still has its old limit of 1 rocket/turn and a load of 4 rockets, but hey

Verdict: Scary - This will *really* scare the out of large juicy targets. Another excellent partner for the MoO.


Deathstrike (Heavy)
Well, at least they tried.

Pros:

• Its missile is now really, really nasty
• Good durability
• Price drop

Cons:

• Still difficult to use due to fire mechanic, which is similar to the old one (albeit no more -1 to the roll due to damage...but, of course, its BS will now decrease as with all vehicles)

Verdict: Usable in the right circumstances - I would not rely too much on it, but it will certainly be a scary sight. Can provide a funny opportunity. But I'd go for more reliable stuff.


Leman Russ (Heavy)
I knew something was wrong. I'll list each version on its own, and group together the two (standard and Demolisher chassis).

Pros:

• No more snap firing the rest when firing artillery, plus split fire on everything, allow for best use of all of its weapons
• Has a limited sort of lumbering behemoth...no penalty for firing the turret (only) on the move
• 'Good' (not really) versions:
• Eradicator: has gone from being the cheapest version to the most expensive of all (bar from the Demolisher), which tells you how much things have been messed up. The Eradicator cannon can be quite dangerous to many targets, although not a real killer.
• Exterminator: as expensive as the Eradicator, i.e. again a most cheap LR version has turned into one of the most expensive of the line. Still, its 4-shot autocannon is humbled by even the Predator autocannon, dammit! However, there is some hope here: see Pask below.
• Punisher: due to the buffs that Tank Commanders can give, Punishers can be a decent choice due to the sheer volume of fire. Their gun is unchanged.
• Executioner: sure it's cheaper, but not as effective than before. Will dish out some good damage against infantry if you couple its cannon with plasma sponsons (themselves quite weak). I just cannot see it as the scary beast that it is supposed to be. You'd better have a Tank Commander to issue the 'reroll 1' order when you supercharge it, because you really don't want it to overload. All in all, usable with the right support.

​​​Cons:

• Good durability, but not *that* good after all
• Generally, all seem underperforming
• When you take into consideration sponsons and weapons, their cost has increased
• No real profile difference between the old LR and Siege chassis
• 'Bad' versions:
• Leman Russ: very disappointing. No more an infantry killer, on a good day it *might* strip some wound off a large target. It is now meant to threaten single monsters/vehicles, but it's not really good at it.
• Demolisher: it's supposed to pose a threat to both heavy infantry and large targets, but I believe it will struggle to deal damage to both. Still probably (slightly) better than the vanilla LR, but also very expensive.
• Vanquisher: still sucks badly. Even with rerolls and bonus, even if its single shot hits, due to the way wounding works now, its S 8 is insufficient. It will wound most of its supposed targets on a 3+, or more often 4+ or 5+, which makes this probably the worst version of an already bad group of tanks.

Verdict: Overall, poor - We are nowhere near a good tank here. These are not the LR that we expect nor deserve. They might be somewhat durable, but we cannot afford to pay their cost for the underperforming guns that they bring to the table. The only way to use them is by investing heavily in Tank Commanders, and still half of the versions will be left on the shelves. Not good.


Baneblade and variants (Heavy)
Sorry, I'm not reviewing all of these.

Pros:

• Usually ranging between 400 and 500 pts, they seem to have decreased to a generally more reasonable cost.
• Some rather nasty guns around
• Can disengage from, or even stay in melee and still fire
• Can actually be quite dangerous in melee as well, at least until they are not damaged

Cons:

• Cost goes up quickly as they come with no sponsons, and each is +50 pts.
• The DO suffer -1 hit with their heavy weapons if they move...argh

Verdict: Usable, I believe - Although their lack of special rules is disappointing, I suppose they can be funny and quite ok. Some versions are certainly better than others, but I did not check in detail.


Lord Commissar (HQ)
Great guy.

Pros:

• 10 pts cheaper than before, incl. a power sword
• 3A at WS 2+ and a good selection of weapons mean he *might* be able to actually kill something, especially with some buff
• Gives Ld9 to all AM units within 6"
• Couple the above with a standard to get Ld10 infantry all around - great and fluffy
• Summary execution is pretty much THE rule for keeping your army and blobs from evaporating under fire

Cons:

• You will need more than 1 Commissar around, which means that they might get expensive

Verdict: Much needed - like it or not, Commissars will be needed pretty much everywhere, unlike Priest (below), and unless you run an all-tank army. Thematically, I like it very much that they finally gave Commissars and Priest two very distinct roles rule-wise.


Commissar (Elite)
Smaller great guy.

Pros:

• A bit more expensive than before
• Similar, but not as good a profile as the Lord Commissar
• Gives Ld8 to all AM units within 6"
• Summary execution: see above
• Possibly even better than the Lord, since he provides the same (or almost) bonuses at a reduced price

Cons:

• You will need more than 1 Commissar around, which means that they might get expensive AND having Elite slots for everything will be difficult

Verdict: Much needed - see above. Possibly even better than the Lord, since it does almost the same job at a reduced price. You don't want to leave home without a couple of these, on average.


Commissar Yarrick (HQ)
Greatest great guy of all.

Pros:

• 15 pts cheaper, but still costs over 2 and a half Lord Commissars
• now revived on 3+ immediately after he loses his last W
• Good buff: reroll 1s to hit to all AM units within 6", and reroll *all* failed hits against <Orks>
• Same rules of a normal Lord Commissar

Cons:

• Not very killy himself, with 3A at WS 2+ (which becomes 3+ with the power klaw)
• Has lost orders

Verdict: Still The Man - I might actually start to use him. His buff aura is good, although it overlaps some orders. Against Orks, he is basically an auto-take. It's sad that he lost his orders, but I guess that helps encouraging us to take other officers as well.


Other unique Characters
Sorry, I won't review these except for Pask. They generally seem usable. E.g. Creed and Kell are cheaper and with some decent rules, and you are not forced to take them together. But I'd still spend my points elsewhere. Nork Deddog might become very useful to boost the survivability of all and any number of characters nearby, meaning that his value increases the more characters you surround him with.


Knight Commander Pask (HQ)
Now...

Pros:

• Can mount in any LR, in any configuration
• BS 2+ ! Almost any weapon is worth taking, even the extra stubber/stormbolter
• Only +10 pts over a normal Tank Commander - so far he's a bargain
• Same rules of a Tank Commander, but can issue 2 orders/turn
• PLUS, he can issue orders to Tank Commanders! Reroll 1s to a BS 3+ LR starts to work for me...

Cons:

• Has lost ALL of his old cool rules. No special fire, no rending, etc. He fires exactly like a normal LR of its kind, except for the BS of course.
• Still cannot take a HK missile

Verdict: Still strong - Yes, the loss of the almighty damage output of the old Pask sucks. BUT, let's be honest: he is more durable now, AND he acts more as a good commander, actually improving up to 2 LR around him. And if these are Tank Commanders (and why shouldn't they?) they can improve other normal LR on their own. There is some nice synergy here, and a good start to build an all-tank army. Plus, with a BS 2+ Pask can actually put an Exterminator to good use, since those 4 shots start to find home regularly. Other variants can benefit from Pask as well (Demolisher?), but certainly he is no more an auto-take as a Punisher due to the loss of rending. Unfortunately, the Vanquisher would still SUCK BADLY even with Pask because, even hitting on 2+, it would struggle to wound, and Pask has no bonus here. Sigh.


Tempestor Prime (HQ)
Similarly to the other officers, he's now a lone character.

Pros:

• See MT
• You definitely want one around if you are playing some MT: due to keywords, he is the only guy who can issue orders to Militarum Tempestus...

Cons:

• ...which sucks thematically. Now why Kasrkins should not be both <Cadians> and <Militarum Tempestus>?
• See MT

Verdict: He's fine - comes at +10 pts over a CC, and can still issue 2 orders, AND he can do it to MT.


Militarum Tempestor Command Squad (Elite)
The equivalent, 4-men squad of the new CCS.

Pros:

• See MT
• Still can take 4 specials or the usual goodies

Cons:

• See MT

​​Verdict: Hmmm - now, these guys should act as either support or suicide, just as the CS. But for these roles they don't need much of what you pay for over a normal Command Squad (except for deep striking, in the latter case: if used to deep-kamikaze 4x plasma, they are cheap and overall great). I'm a bit puzzled by the use of this squad at the moment, and I'd rather stick with regular MT.


Militarum Tempestor Scions (Troops)
Enter the new stars.

Pros:

• Price decreased, but still +4 pts over a Veteran (incl. the hotshot gun cost)
• For those extra points, you get krak grenades, a regular deep-strike, carapace, the hotshot gun, and less weapon options.
• Basically, same options as the old codex, but with the nice addition that a maxed 10-men squad can now take 4 specials instead of 2.
• And these are Troops, yep.
• Their <regiment> keyword is fluffy and makes them taking order and benefitting only from their own kin. Normal guards will really hate these. Exception: medi-packs will work both ways regardless of regimental keyword...

Cons:

• Probably less effective than before as suicide troops: since now you deepstrike at more than 9" from the enemy, and with vehicles being generally more resilient, a 5-man squad with 2 melta won't be very useful anymore. However, they now have other uses.

​​Verdict: Very interesting - these are now your proper elite BS 3+ infantry. I'm not sure that having them as Troops makes complete sense, but MT players are people too. MT are short-range specialists, that can now hurt almost all infantry due to the new AP mechanic. I'd go safely with 10x men with 4x volleyguns or 4x plasma (the latter, deepstriking) in their squads, basically filling the gap left by the Vets. I'm not very convinced of melta, at the moment. Flamers are not even an option to be considered for these guys, of course.

Taurox Prime (ded. Transport)
Now look who's back, again...

Pros:

• Has all the goods of the regular Taurox
• Plus, for JUST +5 pts you get BS 3+, which is a bargain
• However, while the basic vehicle is cheap, its (powerful) weapons are expensive, easily pushing it around 100-130 pts
• Go 'cheap' and get the gatling (now heavy 20) and 2 volleyguns, or go long-range support and equip the battle cannon and double autocannon

Cons:

• See Taurox
• The missile launcher seems way overpriced

Verdict: Nasty - this little guy will sting, and still at quite a decent price. Ironically, its battle cannon, once so modest, is now almost on par with that of a LR, since the Taurox will hit on 3+ and compensate for the slightly worse S and AP. The cheaper gatling seems superior in most cases, however due to its sheer number of shots.


(Ogryns and) Bullgryns (Elite)
We have some winners, it seems.

Pros:

• The obvious winners here are the Bullgryns, which cost 7-10 pts more than Ogryns (which now cost as much as a Scout Sentinel).
• Bullgryns are substantially improved: WS 3+, +1A on the charge, and they even have hand grenades for a small bonus
• Bullgryns can now finally mix and match the (useless) grenadier gauntlet, the (decent) maul, and both kind of shields, both of which are good: one gives 4++, the other 2+.
• Bullgryns seem to be a rather strong charge or countercharge unit. They will shine against low-armoured targets. I'd go for a majority of the 2+ shields, since T5 won't protect them as well as before now.
• Add a Commissar nearby and especially a Priest - there you go, scary
• And of course they are <infantry>, so they appear to be able to receive a couple of good melee orders...

Cons:

• ...however, they lack the <regiment> keyword. This means they cannot actually receive orders - see the rules
• Ogryns still suck, as does their gun - we have other means to get fire support
• The grenadier gauntlet is pointless, go full melee (and still keep the grenades anyway)

Verdict: Good - finally the Bullgryns seem to be definitely playable (despite being unable to receive that nasty Fix bayonets! order), while the Ogryns remain pretty useless.


Ratlings (Elite)
Close, but no cygar.

Pros:

• Basically, they can infiltrate and keep their familiar special rules
• Now substantially cheaper
• Your best snipers...

Cons:

• ...still, I'm not that persuaded that normal sniper rifles are that useful. Seem to be way too random to be effective.
• Elite: again, a very competitive sector
• Extremely squishy - and even with their bonus, they won't get better than a 4+ in cover

Verdict: Usable, but not great - a 5-ratling unit is very cheap and might achieve something, with some luck. Still, with most characters now having 3-4 wounds or more, I don't think we can rely on standard sniper rifles that much. Maybe try to concentrate fire from more units - but seriously, who wants to buy such awful models?


Officer of the Fleet (Elite)
Thanks, but no thanks.

Pros:

• Could be somewhat useful in an all-airborne army, if (how?) he survives

Cons:

• Has a very silly one-use-only attack that can be nasty, but misses 50% of the times
• He's not even that cheap
• Against against ground targets near him, he slightly improves the accuracy of <areonautica imperialis> units...
• ...which currently are limited to Valchyries, i.e. not worth it

Verdict: Leave at home - Not really useful, except perhaps in thematic airborne assault armies. But we'll have to wait for the FW Vendetta (and pray it's good) to use these effectively.


Valkyrie (Flyer)
We apologise, your flight has been cancelled.

Pros:

• Hellstrike missiles finally no more one-use only
• Allows embarked units to redeploy very fast, and grav-chute is now much safer

Cons:

• Points cost increased
• Everybody seems excited sbout their weapons, but I can't see why. As a flyer, it is forced to move: thus, unless you hover and lose its other (good) rules, all of its heavy weapons (i.e. All) will hit on 5+.
• MT don't need it anyway
• Not sure I can find a use to redeploy an infantry unit 20" away and over 9" from enemy

Verdict: Leave in the hangar - Sadly, a great model which still seems quite useless. It has all the normal pros and cons of Flyers, but its armament is definitely sub-par. Perhaps by giving it two extra HB it could pass as a semi-decent gunship, but still not worth it due to usually hitting on 5+; while an Officer of the fleet could improve it, the combination of a short-range buff from a squishy model with a very mobile flier does not convince me. As a transport, units that should use it according to fluff and/or that once could have benefitted from it (MT Scions) don't need it anyway due to their own deepstrike rules.
*Update: *However*, IF we manage to agree on the way grav-chutes work (see discussion below), this thing potentially becomes *great* as a transport, while still remaining a poor gunship.

4. A few allies

The following are a few units that used to be part of the AM codex and that now are technically part of other factions. Still, they interact nicely with the AM, and most even have specific abilities/keywords for the AM. All can be used in the same detachment, as part of the <Imperium> faction.

Adeptus Astra Telepathica:

• Provides cheap psyker support, a mix of moderate offensive and defensive powers.
• Primaris Psyker (HQ): a decent 2-spell psyker. Finally, Commissars have learned to shoot him *before* he murders people around him when he perils the Warp.
• Wyrdwane Psykers (Elite): I always hated these, and they still seem useless
• Astropath (Elite): an even cheaper and weaker 1-spell psyker. Has a nice little special ability to provide a small buff to AM units.
• Decent - except for the Wyrdwanes, good. While the two characters are no warmachine, they are very cheap and definitely playable

Techpriest Enginseer (from the Adeptus Mechanicum):

• Price increased, over 50 pts
• Tough, S4 T4 W4 and 6++
• Has Canticles of the Omnissiah, but won't achieve much on his own. Servitors are a separate entry, and might add a small shooty support unit near him. Not sure they are worth it anyway, due to being forced to take a vastly overcosted powerfist, except for max 2 per unit being able to take a heavy weapon
• Repairs d3W to an AM <vehicle> within 3" (no need to roll) - cannot spam this
• Needs an update - Rather uninspired, also due to the simplification of vehicle rules. Hardly worth his cost in an AM army

Ministorum Priest (from the Adeptus Ministorum):

• Now part of the Nuns army list, as in codex:IA, but still has the AM keywords
• Cost increased, as a Scout Sentinel. Also incredibly tough compared to before, at a whopping W4 now
• Now provides Zealot to himself only, sucks in melee, and can purchase overpriced weapons...
• ...however, he adds +1A to all AM <infantry> units within 6", which is quite brutal if you think to a Conscripts blob, decent melee characters, Bullgryns, or even some nasty suppor units from his own sub-faction, such as Death Cult Assassins
• Does not affect morale in any way anymore, however
• Limited potential - when used with the right units, he is *very* good. However, no more an auto-include for AM armies. His old main role is now covered by the Commissar

Saint Celestine (from the Adeptus Ministorum):

• Can be taken alone, or with 1 or 2 Geminae
• Cost increased if you take the whole unit, but still worth it
• Better stats overall, more killy
• Gives all AM *units* within 6" a 6++
• Powerful - becomes a good and fluffy counter-charge unit for an AM army

5. Overall...

I believe many units have been improved, and a few have been badly ruined. Vets, Chimeras, and Leman Russes are especially disappointing, and should (hopefully) be adjusted. Some *great* opportunities have been wasted into useless, flavourless choices, above all the <regiment> keywords.

But, this index is obviously a temporary tool. As all others, it has basically no wargear options except for weapons, no relics, almost nothing to really customise your army. It reminds me of a similar booklet that was published along with the 3rd ed. handbook, with (even briefer) basic stats for all models of all armies. But that was soon forgotten, and so I hope will happen with this index, in the meaning that it will be turned into a good codex proper.

Overall, however, despite some unquestionable disappointment, I see good potential here. I see promising artillery, and an interestingly different way to play our infantry. I quite like the new vehicle and deepstrike rules, even if they detract from tactical play. Substantial points decreases in many units and wargear (some weapons *really* shine here) mean that most of our units seem actually *much* better and more playable than the previous codex - what hurts is that a few iconic ones have received an undeserved bad treatment.

I rate this *provisionary* AM index as (updated) definitely satisfying. Certainly much better that some old codexes that I've seen. Our expectations might have been partially frustrated, but I keep some faith: if GW refines the ideas that they have started to put in practice here, we might end up with a very well-rounded army. Have faith in the Emperor

[Lord Marshal]

Chimera

not even amphibious anymore

 

Guard are literally unplayable now.

 

Thanks GW.

[Feral_80]

Aye, thanks for the great, intelligent comment. Now I can sleep.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. I enjoyed the very detailed report. While I am a little more upbeat about the new IG rules, I basically agree with your overall analysis.

 

It feels like Leman Russes have been very lacklustre for several editions now. They got a bit better with price decreases last codex, but 7th edition was just too brutal on heavy armour that it wasn't enough. I do think that you might be undervaluing the vastly improved survivability of Russes under the new rules. But that said, I can't argue with you on their firepower. It just seems too low and I can't see them killing much of anything. Hopefully they will still scare people out of proportion to what they can actually accomplish and draw fire however.

 

If you don't mind, I'd be interested in your thoughts on one Russ variant that you missed, the Punisher ... I'm guessing it gets a bad rating since people never even liked it in 7th unless it was a "Paskunisher" but on the other hand I think it may be the cheapest variant (along with the Executioner which you say is still rubbish despite pricing)  clocking-in at 160 with hull heavy bolter or 176 with two sponson heavy bolters as well.

 

Lets hope they are good to their word and continue to assess things and give our tanks a boost when the real codex comes out.

 

On the whole I'm still pretty happy. Personally I am overjoyed at the return to a more 3rd edition style of Guard where veterans are elites and regular IG troops are back to being the bread-and-butter of Guard instead of "chimeltavets". As with you I love what they've done with Commissars.

 

Snipers are much more important this edition -- I believe I glean from your review that Ratlings (while not as good as they could be) remain the best option in this regard? If my math is right, 10 of them clock in at 70. No other way to get 10 sniper rifles for those points and certainly not at 3+ BS. Even two special weapon squads will only net you 6 sniper rifles at 4+ and cost more. Veteran snipers seem like a nonstarter especially given the lack of doctrines (camo cloaks). Elites slot is crowded but it seems to me there's very little reason to take platoon commanders anymore so you can free up slots that way. I don't know, 20 Ratlings at less than 150 points might at least scare people if not make some noise.

[Thorakitai]

I keep seeing worries about running out of elite slots (which is a bit ironic, considering how mediocre that slot has been for guard arimes for years) and I think people are worrying unnecessarily. For starters, there's a detachment that adds 6 elite slots for a HQ tax, which for guard happens to both be useful and dirt cheap. Besides this, it's very doable for an infantry army to fit 3 brigades into 2000 points. That's 18 elite slots (and 27 more command points). I doubt that's the best option, but if you want to put 200+ guardsmen on the table, you can easily fit in the commissars to keep them there.

[Otto von Bludd]

I respect the amount of effort you've put into your analysis, but is it perhaps premature?  For example I disagree that the LR is worse in any way.  It seems to be substantially better in just about every way.  Regiments currently do not do anything, but remember there is going to be an IG codex coming out at some point in which I would expect to see them fleshed out.  Orders may not be as much of an issue as you think, with cheap officers and options like Creed + Kell adding 3 orders just on their own.  I think we will be able to get as many orders as we really want to without much of a hassle.

 

The Valkyrie is shaping up to be one of the best transport options in the game too!  It's a flying tank bristling with AP-1 weapons when kitted with rocket pods and HBs, 12 transport slots with the ability to carry multiple squads, an absurd movement profile and a very powerful and substantially improved grav chute insertion rule to get those squads exactly where you want them to be.  I don't think it will be sitting in the hangar for very long.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

That's a fair point, Thorakital. Six elite slots is still a fair bit to fill-up if one is using a single Brigade Detachment even. And I had forgotten about the relative ease with which an accessory Vanguard Detachment could be added if you want MOAR commissars and the like.

[HenricusTyranicus]

I think people are selling the Russ a little too short. Only a few variants are great at consistent damage, however, all of them have the potential to do massive damage in the right circumstances. I think they'll lean on their sponsons a little more than they have in the past, but they'll add some real durability to the army. An executioner with plasma sponsons, a lascannon, and a nearby commander to order it to reroll ones sounds amazing, to be honest. Don't forget, a command point reroll will help you really get the most out of your tanks

[Yorkston]

Unless i'm missing something, the buying stuff per-weapon also applies to the Baneblade sponsons.  In that case, bolter sponsons are 68pts/pair and flamer sponsons are 100pts/pair.  Barebones seems to be about 20ish points cheaper than old prices for most variants, buts end up being more expensive with sponsons. 

 

Just to rant a bit more, it is also the only LoW to suffer from the -1 to-hit movement penalty.  Knights, Wraithknights, Stompas, Mecha-Khorne, Stormsurges, and the Terminus Ultra all have rules to ignore it and the Necron ones are all assault weapons.  Even the Gork/Morkanaught get to ignore the penalty.  Why GW!?!?!

 

Also I just realized, why does the Hellhammer have a random mounted lasgun now?  I thought the Shadowsword was the one with laser pointers.

[Feral_80]

Thanks all for the replies! Just a couple of things.

Nicodemus, indeed I forgot the Punisher (added now), but I actually consider it one of the better variants.

Now Ratlings *might* be good in numbers, but my greatest concern is that to really hurt a character you need to roll 6s, and roll many of them. so, you'll need many Ratlings. And I both hate the models and think that, while cheap, a unit won't last a single turn of return fire. So your snipers could quickly evaporate. They are certainly better than guardsmen snipers however.

Personally, I prefer the traditional AM approach: to target that character who is not the closest enemy, first obliterate those units that are shielding him with sheer amount of explosions he'll be next.

Otto, yes the Valkyrie has its advantages and allows you to redeploy a unit with excellent range and mobility...but, to do what? Maybe grab objectives, but only if there are no enemies nearby. I mean, the way grav chute (and deep strike) works now means that you disembark over 9" away from any enemy. And your flamers are 8", and your meltaguns rock at 6". You might try to embark Ogryns and charge, but again a 9" roll is risky. The old-style suicide squads do not work this way anymore. I'm a bit puzzled by the real use of the Valkyrie mobility and utility as a transport, since almost all of our squads won't survive a turn away from the rest of the army.

And generally, yes I know that combining detachments allows you to pretty much field anything. But I was trying to avoid this 7th-ed. mentality, and keep it simple using no more than a couple of detachments in my average game.

[Gothical]

I lament what has happened to my beautiful tanks - Russes, Hellhounds and Artillery. Tank Orders are now worse due to the loss of Squadrons, so they only affect one tank.

 

The Wyvern is still reasonably decent, Pask will still appreciate a Punisher or Exterminator and can at least make a pair of standard Russes/Executioners better, and the Hydra is mentally good (8 shots, hitting on 5s or 3s depending on your target, -1AP). Of the Superheavies, I am very sad my Shadowsword lost its targeters but it does insane amounts of damage - you'd have to be lucky, but you can put 72 points of damage on a single target (I may use the Banesword instead, still does fairly heavy damage to targets as it is really D3-6 damage, thus is lighter on Command re-rolls to max out its potential, and I can personally justify it taking Lascannons to boost that further).

 

Bullgryn are amazing, especially as we can mix-and-match weapons to have arguably superior Terminators with 2+ Saves, 3 Wounds and 4 S7 AP-1 D2 attacks on the charge (5 on the charge and 4 in subsequent turns if you stack a Priest in there).

 

A couple of Medi-packs plus Nork Deddog should make a key character fairly survivable, but as ever remaining out of sight is the best plan.

 

++Edit++

 

Valkyries are pretty good with the Officer of the Fleet, re-rolling 1s means that Hellstrikes and a Lascannon become reasonably reliable anti-tank weapons (a nice change) and the MRP+Heavy Bolters will shred infantry (but you may need to use the Command Re-rolls on the MRP to get a good number of shots). There's also nothing in the Strafing Run rule saying the target has to be in LOS of the Officer, just within 18", so you should be able to keep him reasonably safe.

[HenricusTyranicus]

You can also just not use grav chute insertion and put the models wherever you want. Specially since you can charge from Transports. Start with 4 bullgryns in there, go 35 or so inches your first turn, and park next to some backfield unit. Next turn, jump out 3, move your movement, and charge.

 

 

EDIT: Actually not even sure you have to go into hover mode. I see nothing about it in the rules.

[WarriorFish]

A good write up, I'd like more detail on artillery as I do like them and had hoped for more effectiveness. Seems to me that they'll be best targeting hidden units, letting the rest of your army focus elsewhere?

[Feral_80]

A good write up, I'd like more detail on artillery as I do like them and had hoped for more effectiveness. Seems to me that they'll be best targeting hidden units, letting the rest of your army focus elsewhere?

 

Might be - after all, that's what artillery should do, right?

At the moment I am quite excited to try a MoO and a trio of pieces (likely a Wyvern, a Manticore, and a Basilik) around him. I believe they will do good results for a decent price.

I don't think taking a single artillery piece (even a Wyvern) is now worth it anymore. The buff from the MoO is really needed, but you need to maximise it to affect more units in order to make up for his cost. But I'm actually quite fine with the idea of go heavy or go nothing with artillery.

[Shamansky]

I hope i simply can't see the forest behind the trees. Because now my army looks to be in a great need of additions. The additions i was trying to avoid. Like horses, mutants (ok, ok, abhumans), square-wheeled ork-invented tauroxes... Oh boy. Can't wait to see the codex.

[KasrkinRyu]

This may seem like a silly question but can anyone confirm flyers start in reserve in 8th.

[WarriorFish]

It does seem like the Taurox got the boost it needed at the expense of the Chimera, but we'll see how it pans out. I'm eager to get some Stormies on the table, looks like they are finally as good as they deserve I used the Manticore in my last 7th game (it helped pop a Land Raider), looks like it may need to come out for the first 8th game too

[Jam Master Flex]

This may seem like a silly question but can anyone confirm flyers start in reserve in 8th.

I can't see anything in the core rules that were leaked yesterday about it so god knows.

[KasrkinRyu]

This may seem like a silly question but can anyone confirm flyers start in reserve in 8th.

I can't see anything in the core rules that were leaked yesterday about it so god knows.

Me too! I thought I missed something...

[duz_]

Wait Sgts can't take power fists??

 

I feel like my plans of vets with flamers carapace and power fist are slowly leaving the room especially since they're now elites ...

 

My Scions on the the other hand will be seeing the table a lot more. :)

4 deep striking plasmas in a 10 man squad? Yes plz

[Brother Dallo]

Thanks for the in depth write up. I found it pretty helpful. I'm planning on slowly putting a Guard army together. Do you think it's worth holding off on purchasing classics like Russes and Chimeras until we see what the actual codex holds for them, or just get them because they're fluffy?

 

I hope sentinels get an upgrade.

 

Dallo

[Feral_80]

I could not find anything special about Flyers. It seems that each has their own rules.

From what I can see, they seem to deploy as any other unit...which is ok for those that can land and hover like the Valkyrie, but quite odd for stuff like the Eldar flyers...

 

 

Dallo: as always, I'd suggest to buy what you like. I assume that all vehicles will be usable eventually. Just don't go 5x Chimera as many of us did so far...

[H311fi5h]

So how would you fill the three required fast attack slots for a Brigade Detachment?

[duz_]

Hellhounds! Burn them all! ;) :)

[our_baz]

@feral_80 Thank you for the in-depth review of the leaks, it was a good read over my coffee break Ta.