GreyCrow Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 I'm sure the base would count for the Stormraven, wouldn't it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 Its from the model only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Are you sure ? The rules I have say : "From the Transport", and I don't think I've missed a rule where they say bases do not count as the model (unlike early AOS where you had to play footsie when charging). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 Base isn't part of a model, it's an inherent concept. We played using the base to disembark anyway. But the base is just a stand for the model, the models don't go inside it, you don't shoot from it, players can't shoot it, etc. It's something we'll need to bring up on the new FAQ site. I doubt anyone will actually play it strict RAW anyway, but it will still be nice to clean up the rule set anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 - The scope of the game has changed with the new deployment rules. Previously, it was possible to buy 1 to 2 turns to set up a strategy and choose when you engage by keeping stuff off the board in reserves. Now, the battle begins when the engagement starts, troops are commited and there is no turning back. So, designing well oiled lists that act as one, rather than a number of individual units doing their thing is going to be paramount to victory. Â - Therefore, I am a firm believer that spamming will become much more important than it was. Not spamming one kind of unit, but due to things being more powerful overall, critical mass of corps d'armes is going to be critical to ensure sustained firepower. Concentration of force. Something marines aren't exactly bad at when geared towards it. This is why I'm planning a ton of deep striking units: See the enemy setup turn 1, then deploy a concentrated force where it should have its maximum effect. New choosable reserves and no-scatter deep strike make it extremely controllable, Shrike acts as a force multiplier too. Drop pods with devastators/tacs, fire support via inceptors/terminators (take and hold), CC units with assault/vanguard squads. I'm not one to build steamroll deathstar lists, this is just much more flexible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Now you're getting in the mood ;) Â Just remember that you have to have half of your units deployed on the board. That's my biggest concern to be honest, when the enemy can get Turn 1. Â Need to see how alternated deployment goes before making assumtions there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 The alternating when deploying is weird. Using transports to consolidate units and characters is important if you want to go first. Knights and other LOWs help soak up the unit count ratio while maintaining a lot of firepower. The trade-off being that they can be out-scored on an objective by two guardsmen if it comes down to it. Â I also have a Firestorm Redoubt as well. I'm trying to decide if I want to make use of it. You can't get on top of Forts now, because they are creatures themselves, and they lost a lot of options. But they hold a lot and 10 can shoot out of it. Then you have the 3"+move disembark four counter-attacks. A bunker is better for a dev squad. Or even Centurions. A Redoubt would probably shine with a max centurion squad. It would be extremely expensive though. FWs super heavies will probably outshine them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 So ... why nlt just use a shorter stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Modeling for advantage/not using the base provided/etc. Â I doubt it will remain an issue very long. And I doubt anyone will force anyone else to auto kill their crafts contents. But it is important to note the RAW so we can give our input once the feedback/FAQ site is up. The more we inform GW the better we can craft the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 They should stop crafting rules If they craft crap rules :P  I like The outnumbering managing to grab objectives tbh ! While The guards distratct The beast, The heroic sergeant manages to send a distress call right in time!  Feels cinématic like The end of Rogue One :D  ___  Did try to craft some lists, and the balance between infantry and vehicles is quite hard to find It seems. They just take so much points ! (Oh I lament thee, 140 points Landspeeders Typhoon !)  Should get a rest game going end of week ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Good news! There is a footnote called tools of war in the core rules that lets you use the base!  Thank the emperor  And it makes it to you use the base to measure shooting ranges and such too. Which will be wierd but hey, no auto death at least Damo1701 and GreyCrow 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Sooo ... problem solved then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Yes. Â Â I also noticed in the optional terrain rules for the pipes it sounds like youre "in" terrain just by being mixed in with it. So i wonder if you need a "base" for terrain after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Reads messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) See ? ^^  EDIT : How to lose friends playing the Raven Guard at 1000 points ?  Here's how : Patrol Detachment 1 Foot Captain - Combi Plasma + Relic Blade 10 Tacticals - Power Sword, Meltagun, Grav-Cannon  Air Wing Detachment Stormraven - Twin Melta, Twin Las, 2 Stormstrike Launchers Stormtalon - Twin AssCan, Typhoon ML Stormtalon - Twin AssCan, Typhoon ML  999 points  I call this list the Forever Alone :D Edited June 5, 2017 by GreyCrow NiceGuyAdi and Shrieker 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I saw an assassin as an Elites choice in a detachment. Does that mean I could take a random HQ and 3 assassins as a Vanguard detachment? Â If so, that's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 See ? ^^  EDIT : How to lose friends playing the Raven Guard at 1000 points ?  Here's how : Patrol Detachment 1 Foot Captain - Combi Plasma + Relic Blade 10 Tacticals - Power Sword, Meltagun, Grav-Cannon  Air Wing Detachment Stormraven - Twin Melta, Twin Las, 2 Stormstrike Launchers Stormtalon - Twin AssCan, Typhoon ML Stormtalon - Twin AssCan, Typhoon ML  999 points  I call this list the Forever Alone  Ravens are quality gunships. I just had another game. Tried the Hawk and Talon. Wasn't impressed with the Talon, it's pretty squishy. The Hawk was great though.   I saw an assassin as an Elites choice in a detachment. Does that mean I could take a random HQ and 3 assassins as a Vanguard detachment?  If so, that's awesome.  Yes and yes.  My recent game was against Grey Knights. I had a few opportunities to shoot his Grand Master with my Crusader and almost pasted him, but he got lucky invuls and used his last command reroll to live. He had an Apothecary that just kep healing him each turn; I couldn't keep enough wounds on him. I just ignore him at the end and focused on killing his other GKs. I won the roll off and chose the new pointed hammer and anvil. My scouts were handy in keeping a huge buffer that prevented deepstrike/gate of infinity near my valuable targets by deploying just outside m zone on the sides. A Vindicare probably would have been great in this instance. I ended up winning.  Edit: Assassins are dirt cheap. I'm making a couple tonight. SyNidus 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 LOL. Â I suddenly want to make an army that consists of nothing but cheap HQ units and Eversor Assassins. Nusquam, shandwen and SyNidus 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 LOL. Â I suddenly want to make an army that consists of nothing but cheap HQ units and Eversor Assassins. Vanguard Detachment: Librarian - Jump Pack, Force Axe, Bolt Pistol - 132 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Total - 342 Â Vanguard Detachment: Librarian - Jump Pack, Force Axe, Bolt Pistol - 132 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Total - 412 Â Vanguard Detachment: Librarian - Jump Pack, Force Axe, Bolt Pistol - 132 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Total - 412 Â Vanguard Detachment: Librarian - Jump Pack, Force Axe, Bolt Pistol - 132 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Total - 412 Vanguard Detachment: Librarian - Jump Pack, Force Axe, Bolt Pistol - 132 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Eversor Assassion - 70 Total - 412 Â Total Points: 1990 Model Count: 24 CP: 7 GreyCrow and Nusquam 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 That's a lot of Eversors. Â It would suck at claiming objectives, but it would be vicious in melee. Â I don't think there's much that could survive getting charged by 10 Eversors at once :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Now that I think about it, a list of Space Marine super bros made from indépendent characters in HQ or Elite would be gun as Hell !  Need to Check deathwatch opportunities :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 So, had 2 Games today ! Â Very gun Edition ! Â Except, the Stormraven sucks. It's a Heavy points bag and tends to meltdown versus armies with High BS. Â 2 Grey Knights Autocannons took 12HP away from the Raven in one turn, making It quite useless as a gunship due to hitting on a 5+. Granted, the rolls were far from statistical, he stole the initiative and my armour didn't want to work, but being forced to be deployed on the board makes It very awkward. Â The -1 to hit fliers might work well in low BS armies, but against high BS, fliers are at a clear disadvantage these days unfortunately. Â I really have issues finding ways to make It work in a list :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 So, had 2 Games today ! Â Very gun Edition ! Â Except, the Stormraven sucks. It's a Heavy points bag and tends to meltdown versus armies with High BS. Â 2 Grey Knights Autocannons took 12HP away from the Raven in one turn, making It quite useless as a gunship due to hitting on a 5+. Granted, the rolls were far from statistical, he stole the initiative and my armour didn't want to work, but being forced to be deployed on the board makes It very awkward. Â The -1 to hit fliers might work well in low BS armies, but against high BS, fliers are at a clear disadvantage these days unfortunately. Â I really have issues finding ways to make It work in a list :/ I completely disagree. Stormravens are incredible. In fact i take 2! Had 3 games against Eldar, they work perfectly for my purposes and the kind of firepower they can dish out is insane. Â I've found that they can deal enough damage to lower the amount of incoming fire for my men who have disembarked. Â Of course they'll die but not after having delivered their payload. Nusquam 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) Perhaps it is because your opponent had a noob amount of dedicated AT that could reliably take down the Stormravens?  2 Dual AC Dreads are capable of just stripping 12/14 wounds in a turn. To me that's not 'incredible' resilience from the Stormraven  When you start hitting your good weaponry on 5+, it's even further from incredible.  Maybe you have to play 2 of them to at least get to shoot with one. In this case, it's still far away from incredible.  The fact that you have to deploy them in the board Turn 1, with very little ability to take cover due to how big they are (and not all gaming clubs have terrain piece high enough to hide them).  The -1 to Hit is a joke at best, good to avoid shots from armies that already have trouble hitting you, but barely significant vs 2+/3+ armies with the proper tools.  So, basically, it works well if you have first turn and don't get seized. That's not reliable nor incredible ;) Edited June 11, 2017 by GreyCrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 I agree with Syn. The Raven performed well when i took it. It took hits but i had other flyers for threat overload too. Its a balancing act. Â The -1 to hit is great. Other vehicles like tanks have similar stats but the raven is harder to hit and moves faster. Plus arcs and facings are gone so you can unload in any direction I agree with Syn. The Raven performed well when i took it. It took hits but i had other flyers for threat overload too. Its a balancing act. Â The -1 to hit is great. Other vehicles like tanks have similar stats but the raven is harder to hit and moves faster. Plus arcs and facings are gone so you can unload in any direction SyNidus 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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