Please Help - DIY Chaos Army - Questions - Open Thread

[Julgolax]

Hello members of the Liber Chaotica! I think I've finally decided to pull the pin on the chaos grenade and go for it in 8th edition. I've been really conflicted with myself lately though because I have a ton of ideas and not a lot of direction. That's what I get for worshipping the rampancy symbol!

 

Let me start with my several conceptual ideas.

 

1. Slaaneshi CSM / Cult army - For this idea I wanted to make an army based on the core principles of Slaanesh. While we all know GW struggles with Slaanesh's identity in the warfare and tabletop aspect of the game, I wanted to create an army based on the idea of absolute hedonism. By definition, hedonism is putting pleasure of the mind, body and spirit above all else. So I thought, how would this coalesce into a guiding principle for a military force? The answer? It wouldn't! So I thought, what if a group of Space Marines, roughly a well-supported company's strength were suddenly exposed to a massive revelation of every hidden desire in their souls? By means of a psychic onslaught from a cult's summoned Slaaneshi daemon herald, enhanced by cultist psykers, the company was driven half-mad with mental and bodily ecstasy. (no, not like that...) While physical sensation is a part of it of course, the idea is that these warriors were given such a massive dose of gratification and adulation that they turned to their captain who was already the focal point of their idolization. 

 

This captain was hit hardest by this massive psychic burst and he was shown all that he might become if he would pledge himself to the Dark Prince. After his fall, his marines set out into the corrupted hive city becoming their own demi-gods worshiped by the masses, subservient only to their lord who fell the farthest. The city became a twisted reflection of what it once was, with the cult running rampant through the hive, beating and murdering, sacrificing rivals to slaanesh, pleasure parlors and feasting halls were everywhere and even slaves took pleasure in their agony and servitude to their masters. When the great rift was torn open across the galaxy, this dormant cult and lost astartes company emerged from their heady solitude, they were called to gather souls for Slaanesh. Now garbed in marbled white armor wrapped with living silks and adorned with silvery icons of their god, armed with bizarre and vicious weaponry the cultists follow their masters into battle for the chance to win their lord's favor.

 

2. Nurgle CSM /Cultist army - For this idea I was heavily inspired by images of the zombies in The Last of Us. On a mission to an outlying world on the end of the Great Rift, an astartes chapter was deployed en-masse against an incursion of Tzeentchian daemons running amok across the surface. Summoned forth by a disturbing Herald of Tzeentch, the daemon hordes ravaged and burned entire districts of the hab-world before finally meeting the chapter's warriors in battle. The chapter fought bravely but the hordes of Tzeentch's legions were without number and the chapter's forces were starting to get overwhelmed within a month of reaching the surface. Cut off from escape by ever-increasing warp storms and daemonic assaults from behind their lines, the chapter had lost all hope of victory and fought for survival.

 

It was when the chapter's Reclusiarch and the remainder of it's forces entered the Emperor's shrine in a last ditch effort to survive, the Reclusiarch was given a choice. Nurgle (or perhaps a Daemon speaking to him on BEHALF of Nurgle) gave him the choice to accept his blessing and survive or to perish and be forgotten. With that, a huge fungal growth erupted from the statue of the God-Emperor and unfurled to reveal a pool of oily black fluid. The Reclusiarch, was faced with watching his brothers die unremembered in failure or to accept this offering and become an agent of everything he hated. He chose the latter for he could not allow his warriors to die and drank the black sludge. As he did, he convulsed and bloated in his black armor which huge fungal growths erupted from the cracks and his wounds sealed shut by the rampant growths. He instructed his brothers to do the same, lest they be cast down and consumed by the daemon hordes. Each warrior did so in turn and they were able to survive the worst of the Horror's flames and blades. 

​They managed to escape, taking a portion of the Ebonheart Plague with them into the stars. Now they venture to and fro, offering the same deal to beleaguered defenders and enslaved masses alike. It is their blessing and curse as they must drink this black fluid to be renewed from injury at the price of being hunted as the corrupt monsters they are. The Reclusiarch has become the leader of this group, the Ebonheart Brotherhood.

 

3. Undivided CSM / Cultist Army - Heavily inspired by the story of Constantinus the Liberator, this force is more rudimentary and I wanted to explore the idea of allied armies though this idea is heavily hindered by the lack of cross faction support. I wanted to make a CSM army, rather small in size with only your most foundation type units but also supported by the Genestealer Cults units proxy-ed in as daemonic rather than xenos. This idea is rather defunct now.

 

That's about it for now. There are more floating around in my mind but these are the more developed ones I have. I'd like to hear what you think.

 

[Doctor Perils]

So, to me it seems by word-count alone, your Nurgle army is already more fleshed out then the Slaanesh army idea, and you have a name for them already: you might have already subconsciously made your decision ;) Also, new Nurgle stuff is coming out sooner then new Slaanesh stuff, but that's entirely cynical :P

 

I would like to add however that you are definitely allowed to make two DIYs, that can intermingle, allowing you to in the future make a second plastic army in the future!

 

 

Wrt the current ideas - I have to say, the Nurgle corruption seems more promising then your suggestion for the Slaaneshi corruption. For the story of corruption of a person and an army to be truly interesting, it is best for it to be an internal struggle (which can be somewhat "aided" by outside forces), but the corruption shouldn't be forced on them by a spell or some other mcGuffin. The Recclusiarch's fear of dieing and being forgotten pushing him into the warm (and somewhat sticky) embrace of nurgle would therefore be more compelling a storyline then heroic captain n°35 being hit with a spell which suddenly turns him evil; however, the emotional conflict leading up to the Recclusiarch's choice should be put forward in advance, rather then suddenly sprung upon the reader at the moment of his turning - perhaps his chapter put a large accent on heroism and the remembrance of ancient heros, and therefore when he is confronted with how the Imperium might forget the chapter, he turns to someone, or something that would remember them, and therefore has the same values as the chapter - in this way, it is suggested that in a way, Nurgle is closer to the chapter then the Imperium ever was, before even the campaign starts.

Definitely don't have Nurgle actually appear though, that just doesn't sound right - a Daemon, a Daemon-prince, or even some mortal priest of Nurgle would work much better then Papa himself :)

 

 

PS: this is a case of "do what I say, not what I do", because I don't believe I've yet managed to write this kind of story of fall from grace yet - others might give you some better examples :)

[Julgolax]

So, to me it seems by word-count alone, your Nurgle army is already more fleshed out then the Slaanesh army idea, and you have a name for them already: you might have already subconsciously made your decision Also, new Nurgle stuff is coming out sooner then new Slaanesh stuff, but that's entirely cynical

I would like to add however that you are definitely allowed to make two DIYs, that can intermingle, allowing you to in the future make a second plastic army in the future!

Wrt the current ideas - I have to say, the Nurgle corruption seems more promising then your suggestion for the Slaaneshi corruption. For the story of corruption of a person and an army to be truly interesting, it is best for it to be an internal struggle (which can be somewhat "aided" by outside forces), but the corruption shouldn't be forced on them by a spell or some other mcGuffin. The Recclusiarch's fear of dieing and being forgotten pushing him into the warm (and somewhat sticky) embrace of nurgle would therefore be more compelling a storyline then heroic captain n°35 being hit with a spell which suddenly turns him evil; however, the emotional conflict leading up to the Recclusiarch's choice should be put forward in advance, rather then suddenly sprung upon the reader at the moment of his turning - perhaps his chapter put a large accent on heroism and the remembrance of ancient heros, and therefore when he is confronted with how the Imperium might forget the chapter, he turns to someone, or something that would remember them, and therefore has the same values as the chapter - in this way, it is suggested that in a way, Nurgle is closer to the chapter then the Imperium ever was, before even the campaign starts.

Definitely don't have Nurgle actually appear though, that just doesn't sound right - a Daemon, a Daemon-prince, or even some mortal priest of Nurgle would work much better then Papa himself

PS: this is a case of "do what I say, not what I do", because I don't believe I've yet managed to write this kind of story of fall from grace yet - others might give you some better examples

I suppose you could look at it that way, yes, but really it isn't more developed, just a more complicated idea.

To be honest, I would like to think that even though GW loves for us to play god-armies because profit, there's still a place for undivided out there. The Gods somehow seem much less interesting the more defined their models are. Not every Nurgle army should be green and covered in fly icons. Not every Khorne army should be red and brass with a distinct lack of firepower. Not every Tzeentch army should be pink and blue with Egyptian headdresses. :P

And I do think Slaanesh actually has some new stuff coming out which is both good and bad.

If I WERE to choose to pursue my Nurgly army, I also would have to find a way to sculpt things like this guy's face and shoulders coming out of wounds in the marine's armor... http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/thelastofus/images/8/8f/Bloater.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150928101859 I'm a terrible sculptor. Originally, with this idea, I just thought it would be cool to make their skin turn pallid white and run heavy with black veins but I like the idea of their incredible resiliency and the idea of a plagued fungus from Nurgle's garden being used to corrupt his followers.

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

To echo Lord Thorn’s very good advice. I would say go for the Nurgle option as out of the three it is your longest and most developed idea and is generally the most compelling of the three.

So, assuming your take our advice and go for Nurgle, how do you plan on fleshing that story out?

You say you have been lacking direction lately, so I will assume you’re not just here to pick an idea, but to get a bit of help developing it. If this is the case, here are my thoughts on what you have so far (Italics is my re-working):

‘Nurgle CSM /Cultist army - For this idea I was heavily inspired by images of the zombies in The Last of Us. On a mission to an outlying world on the end of the Great Rift, an Astartes chapter was deployed en-masse against an incursion of Tzeentchian daemons running amok across the surface. Summoned forth by a disturbing Herald of Tzeentch, the daemon hordes ravaged and burned entire districts of the hab-world before finally meeting the chapter's warriors in battle. The chapter fought bravely but the hordes of Tzeentch's legions were without number and the chapter's forces were starting to get overwhelmed within a month of reaching the surface. Cut off from escape by ever-increasing warp storms and daemonic assaults from behind their lines, the chapter had lost all hope of victory and fought for survival.

It was when the chapter's Reclusiarch and the remainder of its forces entered the Emperor's shrine in a last ditch effort to survive, the Reclusiarch was given a choice… As Lord Thorn mentioned, I think this needs a bit of build up before it gets to this ‘choice’ – although I understand that this is obviously just a bit of brainstorming, so this will be the story in its most basic form but we are here to help build on this.

In my opinion, fear of dying is not an acceptable reason for an Astartes to fall. Think about it, these guys are built for war, to fight and die in the Emperor’s service. They are not meant to feel fear at all, let alone that of dying – giving their life for the Imperium is their most basic function, they would give their lives willingly and take as many of the enemy as possible. Furthermore, the fact that a Chaplain was the one to crack first is not believable at all. No Astartes feel fear, but this guy surpasses this still; he is the epitome of religious fanaticism and zealotry and would expect every one of his Brothers to die in glorious battle, without question. However, what this position does grant him is a massive amount of influence over his brothers, their faith and their very souls. Making him key to their fall is a very good idea, but if not fear, why…?  

I think it should come down to gene-seed. If the vast majority of the Chapter was deployed on this world and suffered severe losses, they would be on the verge of destruction. Due to the nature of Tzeentch (and Daemonic influence in general) it is unlikely any of the gene-seed of the fallen would be salvageable – think bodies literally melting, mutating, turning to daemonic sludge as the Warpflame of Tzeentch laps against them. The Chapter is therefore on the precipice of destruction, with most of their brothers dead and any hope of Gene-Seed recovery gone. If these guys fall too, their Chapter will disappear, their great deeds fading to memory. It is a blight on their honour and of the honour of their fallen. To make this worse, what if the last of the Chapter’s Apothecaries fell? Not only is there barely any surviving members, but no one left with the means to save such a precious resource and pass it on. I think this is much more compelling and gives you a decent build up as they go from dying bravely in the face of their enemies to seeing the mutations inflicted on the bodies of their brothers to the realisation that none of the gene-seed is recoverable to the horror that the future of their Chapter is in peril and the sheer dread as the final Apothecary falls and they know that there can be no coming back now…

Nurgle (or perhaps a Daemon speaking to him on BEHALF of Nurgle) gave him the choice to accept his blessing and survive or to perish and be forgotten. It shouldn’t be Nurgle himself. But it should be his will. Tzeentch is the arch-rival of Nurgle and the destruction of a Chapter of the Emperor’s finest is a great honour. Nurgle would not want his rival to achieve such a feat. Perhaps he decides to interrupt the machinations of Tzeentch, stealing his victory right from under his grasp by taking the very souls of those Tzeentch had intended to claim.

With that, a huge fungal growth erupted from the statue of the God-Emperor and unfurled to reveal a pool of oily black fluid. The Reclusiarch, was faced with watching his brothers die unremembered in failure or to accept this offering and become an agent of everything he hated. He chose the latter for he could not allow his warriors to die and drank the black sludge. As he did, he convulsed and bloated in his black armor which huge fungal growths erupted from the cracks and his wounds sealed shut by the rampant growths. He instructed his brothers to do the same, lest they be cast down and consumed by the daemon hordes. Each warrior did so in turn and they were able to survive the worst of the Horror's flames and blades. 

They managed to escape, taking a portion of the Ebonheart Plague with them into the stars. Now they venture to and fro, offering the same deal to beleaguered defenders and enslaved masses alike. It is their blessing and curse as they must drink this black fluid to be renewed from injury at the price of being hunted as the corrupt monsters they are. The Reclusiarch has become the leader of this group, the Ebonheart Brotherhood.

As said before, the Chaplain and their faith in the Emperor should be the key here. Here is how I imagine it (using some of your key imagery):

They fight their way into the Emperor’s shrine to find it already corrupted. Fungal growth covers the statue and thick, oily, black fluid runs down the walls and drips from the ceiling. One of the first observations that the Chapter had made of the planet was that this fungal organism was to be found growing across the planet’s surface, increasing in concentration the closer to the shrine they got. They wrongly concluded that this was a particular quirk of the planet’s ecosystem and ignored it. As the fight against the forces of Tzeentch went on, it was observed by many of the Chapter that the Warpflame of Tzeentch could not harm the fungus. Discovering this shrine, and the vast quantity of the Fungus, the Chapter again makes the mistake of believing it to be a benevolent organism, blessed by the Emperor himself to defend against the touch of the Daemon.

Knowing this would be their last stand, and in the hope of saving their Chapter, the remaining Astartes fall to their knees before the state, uttering their final prayers to the image of the Emperor, calling out for His guidance and strength to save the Chapter and win the day. And they get an answer. A voice within the Chaplain’s head tells him they can be granted the power to see their Chapter survive; if they place their faith in ‘Him’ fully. The voice convinces the Chaplain that the fungus was a sign of his touch on this world and its sap would protect them from harm. What the Chaplain didn’t realise was the Shrine was far from the Emperor’s light. Cut off by the warp storm and already corrupted by the forces of Nurgle who had secretly infiltrated the planet years before, it was not the Emperor who answered but an emissary of Nurgle. In the face of their annihilation, the Chaplain accepts, believing it to be the voice of the Emperor and begins a passionate and fiery oratory which convinces his brothers the Emperor had spoken to him and they were saved before breaking the image atop the shrine, the oily substance flowing freely from it. Starting with the Chaplain, every surviving member of the Chapter drinks the fluid from the shrine and prepares to meet their foe one final time…

Charging from the shrine, the surviving members of the Chapter are met by the Daemonic tide, who unleashes their sorcerous fury on them. As the roiling Warpflame washes over their armour, they find that they are now immune to its horrors; the only sign of its touch was the fungus from the shrine, which now grew on their armour where the Daemonic flames had touched. The surviving members finally break free of the Daemons, making it to their ships and abandoning the planet as the storms surrounding it abated. In their flight, they had ensured to take samples of the blessed fungus with them, believing it still to be a gift of the Emperor. But the Chapter would find itself changed. Every time the flames had washed over their armour, scalding the paint away, they felt their bodies changing; bloating, as more and more of the fungus erupted from their armour. The black oily liquid leaking from the cracks and joints. The journey back to their homeworld was long and the surviving Astartes found they could no longer remove their armour. Plagued by maddening visions of the daemonic fire and its effects on their brothers as the effects of the sap began to wear off, the Chapter was forced to consume more and more of it to combat the effects.

Returning to their homeworld, the survivors, still believing themselves to be loyal to the Emperor’s will, introduced the holy Fungus to their ecosystem, until it grew in abundance across the surface. The Planet’s population were not quick to quick to accept the change however and many were outright hostile in the face of their monstrous appearance. Civil war was avoided however by the outbreak of what would become known as the Ebonheart Plague. Believed to have been carried back to their homeworld by the Chapter themselves, it decimated the population and only those who had consumed the sap of the fungus were spared, quickly believing the claims that this was indeed a gift. Believing themselves prophets of the Emperor, the Chapter undertook a crusade to spread the word of their holy fungus to the Imperium, spreading the Ebonheart Plague across the system. Every planet they come in contact with are shown the power of the fungus as the plague takes its toll, given the choice to join them or fall to ruin. Eventually, their once noble mission was corrupted however, and the Chapter began to revel in the effects of the Fungus itself, until it surpassed their Emperor in their idolatry. Unnoticed at first, due to their relative obscurity, the actions of the Chapter were eventually discovered and they were declared Excommunicate Traitoris by the ecclesiarchy. A great fleet consisting of the Adepta Sororitas, Mechanicus and representatives of several Space Marine Chapters under the command of a notable Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor was dispatched to hunt the Chapter down, delivering Exterminatus on every planet tainted by the Fungus. Cast out by the Imperium, the Ebonheart Brotherhood, as they became known, fled into the Warp, taking what samples they could of the precious fungus with them and finally falling into Nurgle's grasp…

Okay, so I got a little bit carried away there and wrote far more than I intended but once the idea started I couldn’t stop haha. If any of that is of help to you please do use it.

 

​If you are leaning more towards undivided or Slaanesh I can try and do the same for those ideas if you want.