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8th edition loadouts


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#1
Captain Coolpants

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So we always had a similar topic before, and we all agreed that there were typical load outs. Usually put a psycannons on anything that was efficient, everything else gets an incinerator because only 5pts, and so on ect.


Now we have 8th and the massive weapon changes, what do you think now?

I for one think the incinerator is rather expensive, and strangely enough find the psycannon lacklustre this edition.

But now everything can hurt everything on a 6, will the psilencer be the go to weapon? Dealing D3 wounds with 6 shots, and if there's a character bubble around re-rolling some dice.


And then there's combat weapons! Since no extra attack is made from charging, I'm seeing falchions as the standard go to weapon, then the sword,

Are hammers on justicars/ GM/BC back again too? Since they can't be challenged out anymore.

And finally the good'ol dreadknight! I'm thinking double fist or hammer, and not even bothering with guns, with a teleporter?

Edited by Captain Coolpants, 01 June 2017 - 06:16 AM.


#2
Gentlemanloser

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For the ndk I'm thinking just dual fist.

No guns (thank the emp mine aren't glued on!), and get goi to move then around.

No teleporter, unless points are spare and there's still enough reserve slots.

I really need to spend some time with the sm dread entry.
QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#3
Adeptus

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I'm just sticking with what I've already got. I can't be bothered re-arming all my models, as none of them are magnetised and none of the new weapons suck so badly that I don't want to use them.


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#4
jeffersonian000

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Magnets!

SJ
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#5
Zamtro

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Yeah I'll be sticking to what I already have, and just swapping a few models around within squads, so they're mixed bag and look a bit fluffier :)

 

Spearhead, 15 Termies, 10-15 interceptors, 15 Purgators, 2NDK, Land raider and 2x razorbacks, storm raven... See what I'm left with in models/bits I think I have enough for a few more PA.

 

Pretty Sad about Purifiers though, they look pretty crap now, so they will be having their backpacks swapped haha.



#6
Adeptus

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lol, yeah, in addition to magnetising weapons, I wish I'd done backpacks!

#7
Zamtro

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lol, yeah, in addition to magnetising weapons, I wish I'd done backpacks!

Fortunately backpacks should be pretty easy to Remove without TOO much hassle :P Mine are all glued but with gentle precision (And occasionally just in transport) they come off reasonably easy haha



#8
Valerian

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lol, yeah, in addition to magnetising weapons, I wish I'd done backpacks!

 

I had a full squad of 10 with magnetized backpacks, but the guys I sent them to for painting ran off with them.  So, I'm just telling any opponents, "all these power armored dudes are Interceptors."  Everything else is WYSIWYG, and I don't play any tournaments, so I'm not too concerned about anyone having a problem with that.

 

V


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#9
Waking Dreamer

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Yeah I'll be sticking to what I already have, and just swapping a few models around within squads, so they're mixed bag and look a bit fluffier smile.png

 

Spearhead, 15 Termies, 10-15 interceptors, 15 Purgators, 2NDK, Land raider and 2x razorbacks, storm raven... See what I'm left with in models/bits I think I have enough for a few more PA.

 

Pretty Sad about Purifiers though, they look pretty crap now, so they will be having their backpacks swapped haha.

 

Yeah, they made it so that no melee weapon is actually bad. I've always seen the Halberd as the iconic GK weapon myself so I sprinkled a couple amongst the GK infantry. Since my brother's heavy Tau Crisis Suit army got a buff (with their suits being T5 now), the Halberd's +1S should come in handy as well.

 

My current list of models I am thinking of fielding include: Draigo, Voldus, Termies x10, Paladin Ancient, Apothecary, Paladin x3, NDK x3, Xiphon Interceptor, Librarians x3.

 

So I'm thinking, Spearhead Detachment:

- Draigo

- Voldus

- Terminators x10

- NDK x3

- Paladin Ancient

- Apothecary

- Xiphon Interceptor

 

Auxiliary Support Detachment:

- Paladin x3

 

And maybe (if there is a psychic buff from our codex) Supreme Command Detachment:

- Librarians x3



#10
Zamtro

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Yeah I'll be sticking to what I already have, and just swapping a few models around within squads, so they're mixed bag and look a bit fluffier smile.png

 

Spearhead, 15 Termies, 10-15 interceptors, 15 Purgators, 2NDK, Land raider and 2x razorbacks, storm raven... See what I'm left with in models/bits I think I have enough for a few more PA.

 

Pretty Sad about Purifiers though, they look pretty crap now, so they will be having their backpacks swapped haha.

 

Yeah, they made it so that no melee weapon is actually bad. I've always seen the Halberd as the iconic GK weapon myself so I sprinkled a couple amongst the GK infantry. Since my brother's heavy Tau Crisis Suit army got a buff (with their suits being T5 now), the Halberd's +1S should come in handy as well.

 

My current list of models I am thinking of fielding include: Draigo, Voldus, Termies x10, Paladin Ancient, Apothecary, Paladin x3, NDK x3, Xiphon Interceptor, Librarians x3.

 

So I'm thinking, Spearhead Detachment:

- Draigo

- Voldus

- Terminators x10

- NDK x3

- Paladin Ancient

- Apothecary

- Xiphon Interceptor

 

Auxiliary Support Detachment:

- Paladin x3

 

And maybe (if there is a psychic buff from our codex) Supreme Command Detachment:

- Librarians x3

 

Oh totally forgot about my Interceptor! Imperial Armour books are all being updated for release with 8th too yeah? I'll be picking one up from Forgeworld when I'm over there in a few months anyway, because I love the model!


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#11
Valerian

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It took me a couple of hours, but I managed to update my excel Master Army List this afternoon, updating all entries to their new 8e data.  Then I copied the sheet to a new tab to start culling out stuff to get to around 2,000 points of a battle-forged list.  Managed to get to a total of 1985 points and still have enough units to build a Battalion Detachment for the extra 3 Command Points, bringing me to 6 total for a game.  This is with complete WYSIWYG and painted models, with the exception of a Rhino and two Razorbacks that are only primed.  I decided to go with Inquisitor Coteaz as my second HQ, since he's a very cheap HQ option at 100 points, that brings access to a different Psychic power table.  He's an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord, too, so completely fits the theme of the army, and I've got a painted model for him.  I'm in the process of building a new Paladin Ancient using the resin Draigo model, so when I get that all done, and get him painted up, I'll probably drop Coteaz and the Rhino to make room for the Ancient, and try to take advantage of the Grand Master + Ancient double-buff.

 

For now the list looks like this:

 

HQ

 

  • Grand Master Voldus
  • *Inquisitor Torquemada Coteaz

 

Troops

 

  • Terminator Squad of 5 (Justicar with Hammer; one Psycannon; mixture of other Nemesis weapons)
  • Terminator Squad of 5 (Justicar with Hammer; one Psycannon; mixture of other Nemesis weapons)
  • Strike Squad of 5 (Justicar with Hammer; one Psycannon; mixture of other Nemesis weapons)

Fast Attack

 

  • *Interceptor Squad of 6 (Justicar with Halberd; one Psycannon; one Hammer; mixture of other Nemesis weapons)
  • *Interceptor Squad of 6 (Justicar with Halberd; one Psycannon; one Hammer; mixture of other Nemesis weapons)

 

Heavy Support

 

  • Nemesis Dreadknight (Hammer and Fist; Psycannon, Incinerator, Teleporter)
  • Nemesis Dreadknight (Sword and Fist; Incinerator, Teleporter)

 

Dedicated Transports

 

  • *Razorback (Twin Heavy Bolters)
  • *Razorback (Twin Heavy Bolters)
  • *Rhino

 

The 6 units with the asterisks can start on the board (Interceptors behind LOS-blocking terrain if possible, in cover otherwise)

The 6 units without asterisks can start in reserves and attempt first turn charges from teleport attack, when it makes sense to go on the offensive in that way.  Including the Interceptor's once per game 'shunt' I can attempt charges with 8 separate units at a time, and hope that a couple make it the 9" necessary to start tying up units and killing enemy units in close combat.

 

If I had the models/bits for it, I'd like to upgrade the Razorbacks to have Twin Lascannon, instead of the Heavy Bolters, and I'd like to add a Twin Lascannon Venerable Dreadnought.  I feel that the main weakness of the models that I have to be the lack of long-ranged anti-Vehicle firepower.  For now I'll have to rely primarily on close combat to bring down the high-Toughness/high-Wound models.

 

Valerian


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#12
Seizeman

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About standard loadouts, I think it is pretty simple. Bolters and falchions.

 

Special weapons are pretty much garbage right now, as you take a -1 penalty to hit even on terminators, and they are ridiculously expensive. On the other hand, Storm bolters have been hugely buffed, they fire twice as much and are a lot better at wounding ( they wound rhinos and dreads on 5+ instead of being impossible, for example). A psycannon is barely superior to a storm bolter, in fact, 2 storm bolters deal most damage than a special weapon in every single situation.

 

As for nemesis weapons, falchions are the right choice in every infantry model. For power armor and regular terminators they are better in every situation. For paladins, halberds are slightly superior vs T5 and considerably superior vs T8 (but they are both garbage vs T8) and falchions are better agains everything else, and A LOT better vs T3. So, all in all, falchions are the right choice.

 

I will include a hammer in every paladin squad, as the paragon is very good with it, and I think I would include one also in every terminator squad (but there's no reason to take terminators over paladins ).

 

BTW, dreadnoughts are amazing, they are the best way to have good heavy weapons in our army. Of the venerable kind and with a laser and autocannon (or two autocannons) they deal with problematic heavy units. Mine are allies from the Silvery Holy Guys chapter, as I am not paying 20 points for a smite I'll never use.

 

As for the  correct loadout for Dreadknights, just don't take dreadknights, they are awful.


Edited by Seizeman, 02 June 2017 - 12:15 PM.

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#13
Waking Dreamer

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.

.

and I think I would include one also in every terminator squad (but there's no reason to take terminators over paladins ).

.

.

As for the  correct loadout for Dreadknights, just don't take dreadknights, they are awful.

 

O. M. G...what happened in the warp jump from 7th to 8th edition to leave us here?! Are we in a place in the warp where things are somehow reversed! lmao 

 

Don't tell 8th edition turned our Dreadknights into...7th edition's GK dreadnoughts? Did we just dust off our Dreadnoughts from the shelf/box only to make room to put our Dreadknights in there...?! tsk, tsk.

 

And what is this...paladins are better use than our terminators? When before many here claimed the best use of Paladins (besides paperweights)...was not to take them at all...! lolz


Edited by Waking Dreamer, 02 June 2017 - 01:34 PM.


#14
Seizeman

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Paladins pay 9 points over a regular terminator for +1W, +1A, +1L and a better sargeant, wich is a bargain. You have to consider that having an extra wound makes them actually TWICE as resilient vs 2, D3 and D6 dmg weapons (almost everything).

 

Dreadknights are really awful now. They only move 8 and they can't jump, also they are now vehicles so they can't move through ruins. But even if they get to combat, they only have 4 attacks (assuming they are undamaged) and their weapons do very little dmg (the hammer does have good dmg, but hits on 4s). On top of that, they have -1 to hit when shooting and their shooting weapons are actually worse than they were before. A dreadnought does more damage in a single round of shooting than a dreadnight does in a turn in which it shoots and charges. All this while being ridiculously expensive.



#15
Gentlemanloser

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I dont know. A dual fist ndk is only 165 points.

And will smash everything in cc with s12 ap-3.

I still think there are places for them in our lists.

Especially when you look at units like the avatar on 250 points.

One ndk should ruin him in cc!
QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#16
Waking Dreamer

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If you are going to use Dreadknights is it worth starting them on the table and footslogging (no more shunt: so sad) them up? 

 

Or before they start loosing wounds have them teleport as close to the enemy asap?



#17
Seizeman

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Avatar vs dual fist NDK. Not even close.

 

NDK does an average of 2.89 wounds

Avatar does an average of 7.63

 

Note that really high strenght is not that relevant now. S12 only gives +1 to wound vs T5, T6 and T8 compared to S8. AP and DMG are much more important now, as is wearer's WS.

An undamaged dreadknight does 3.61 dmg to a Rhino/Dreadnought per turn, in fact, if said dreadnought has a close combat weapons, it deals 4.33 dmg back to de NDK.



#18
Gentlemanloser

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Hmm sad days.

 

Dreadnoughts it is.

 

Wait  sec, a Hamer NDK is only 5 points more expensive (so 170) and has just about the same weapon as the Avatar then.

 

At -4AP, d6 damage (not roll twice, but minimum 3 - Making Ave 4 instead f 3.5).  With S12.

 

The Avatar hits on 2+, ND 3+.  But the Avatar wounds on 4+ while the NDK wounds on 2+.

 

Sure the Avatar have an extra attack, and 5+ FnP, but is 250 points to 170.

 

Ave for Hammer NDK: 4 * 0.667 * 0.833 = 2.22 Wounds, dealing 8.88 damage before saves.

 

Avatar only gets his 5+ Invulnerable save (and 5+ FnP) making that 3.95 unsaved.

 

 

Versus a Dread a Hammer NDK would deal: 7.118 unsaved wounds.

 

But the Dreadnought is very comparable and a TLAuto / CCW version cheaper than the NDK at 143 points.

 

 

I think the only things going for an NDK over a Dread is that you can purchase the Teleporter for 10 points to DS and we can't Drop Pod GK Dreads (or we just use SM Dreads in SM Pods...). 

 

Edit: Missed the -1 to hit from the hammer. /sigh


Edited by Gentlemanloser, 02 June 2017 - 03:11 PM.

QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#19
Valerian

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I was initially going for the Battalion Detachment to get the 3 Command Points, but now I think going for a Vanguard plus an Outrider Detachment for 2 Command Points will be better overall.  I get one less Command Point, but it allows me to use all ten of my Terminators as Paladins in the Elite slot, vice having to use them as GKT Troops, and it allows me to use all of my GKPA models as Interceptors in Fast Attack, instead of having to leave five as a Strike Squad in Troops.  

 

Now I need to rework yesterday's list again, but I think this one will be much better overall, and I can easily drop the Rhino (that I don't have a real need for) in order to pay for the points difference in upgrades.

 

Oh well, back to the drawing board.


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#20
Gentlemanloser

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I'm thinking of the Spearhead so I can use my 2 ND and 3 Dreads.  That lets me use however many PA models I want as Interceptors and GKT as Paladin.

 

With either Draigo or Voldus (my Mordrak) as HQ.

 

We're probably going to start at 1,000 points firs, then work up to 2K.  So a much smaller list to begin with!


QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#21
Seizeman

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The biggest problem I see with GK detachments is they ask for a lot of HQ, and I think Grey Knights HQ are really bad beyond the first one.

 

Voldus gives you the reroll aura, all the powers you need and some heavy hitting.

 

The second GM adds nothing, as his aura and powers are redundant. You would just pick him for his combat stats, but for the same points you can pick 3 paladins with a hammer which are far superior.

 

The only other HQ that might be useful is a Space Marine librarian, which gives us access to two extra powers. Veil of time is nice, but not amazing (you achieve a better effect just by spending a CP), and null zone is very powerful but highly situational and difficult to use, so I don't think it justifies 163 extra points.

 

That leaves us only with vanguard, as we want to use mostly elite units and some fast attack, maybe one or two heavies. It's only +1 cp, but 4 cp total is just fine I think.

 

By the way, spearhead does not let you use 2 NDK and 3 Dreadnoughts, the dreads are actually an Elite unit.



#22
Gentlemanloser

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Too many years of our Dreads being Heavy...


QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#23
jeffersonian000

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Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like running stock GK with no upgrades is really attractive at the moment. Between Rapid Fire 2, Smite, and our usual bevy of Nemesis weapons, our specialty weapons are kind of lacking.

SJ
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“And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.”
- Revelations 9:9

#24
Myunch

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Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like running stock GK with no upgrades is really attractive at the moment. Between Rapid Fire 2, Smite, and our usual bevy of Nemesis weapons, our specialty weapons are kind of lacking.

SJ


I agree completely here.

I refuse to pay 18 extra points for +3S and -1 AP.

#25
Gentlemanloser

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Seconded.

 

Extensive playtesting strikes again...

 

I think my 10 year old daughter could have done a better job balancing the grey knights.


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QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.




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