1014 replies to this topic

[Morticon]

So with the official launch right around the corner I'd like to start collecting some tips and tricks for us BA players to get behind. 

There are a few things i've already picked up that are going to be interesting, and some things that other frater have brought up! 

 

FYI, this will be a whine-free zone; This is for those brave BA souls ready to get their game on!! 


Feel free to add your observations below. 

 

[Jolemai]

Butbutbut Mort, how can we have cheese without the whine?

 

 

...

 

 

...

 

 

It's cool, I'll get my camo cloak.

[Morticon]

GAME MECHANICS:

 

 

** Vehicles can overwatch.  

This makes the Baal pred super mean.  Even meaner is the fact that you auto-hit with flamers- so its not d3 like in 7th -its d6 hits. 
The only thing to be cautious of, is that range will be a huge factor.  8" within the enemy, or you dont get to fire - (again, unlike in 7th!)

** Vehicles are not the mobile firebases they were!! 

The second you move any vehicle without POTMS or Assault weapons, you're firing at one less BS.  Remember that when choosing units. 
 

** Meltabombs are thrown.

 

This is a nice, 5 points upgrade for those that can get it.  They're thrown now though, not placed in combat- range 4" - so very tough to use on non-mobile units - but for the price, the damage is really good. They also dont only affect vehicles, MCs now. Anything is a viable target. 

 

** Matched play and psychic powers.

 

Correction...."power".  In matched play, only one psychic power can be cast.  Full stop.  Not one per psyker.  One.  

 
** Close Combat. 

Combat is more brutal than we think.  Not only do units that charged first, fight first...AFTER that, the person who's turn it is gets to decide the next unit to fight before their enemy gets to select a unit. 

Tactically this is huge.  It means that if you layer and bait, and have a hardy combat unit that does not break in combat after it has been charged, you can counter charge, and then fight with the unit you counter charge with AND the unit that took the initial charge.  Can be devastating.  

** Charging

You no longer need to charge the unit you shot at!! 

** Morale from shooting.

 

In case youve been under a rock.  The AoS "battle shock" style morale is for combat and shooting.  This means that just 1 casualty on a squad with average (7) ld, sees another unit potentially being lost on an average roll.  

This is devastating for armies with units of multi-wound models if they lose even one model. 

 

This morale system will really make or break things- and ATSKNF is going to be VERY important.  But equally, getting weapons that pump out hits is great to force those checks. 

 

 

 

UNITS:

 

The castellan armed whirlwind is AWESOME!!  very well priced - and 2d3, S7, -1, 2Dam at 72" without needing los!!!! yumm!!
 

Edited by Morticon, 02 June 2017 - 06:28 AM.

[durdle-durdle]

Baal preds vs razorbacks. The razorback is 42 points less than the Baal predator, and only loses 1 wound, 1 ld, and overcharged engines. So for the cost of two Baal predators with assault cannons and heavy bolters, you can take 3 razorbacks with assault cannons (and transport things too). Compare 36 assault cannon shots with 24 assault cannon shots and 12 heavy bolter shots. If I you really like the flamer pred, the razorback can't do that, but imo the dakka pred (or in this case razorback) is better. The assault cannon is 12 shots s6 ap-1 d1. The flame storm is d6 shots (average 3.5), ap-2 d2. the two heavy flamers are a further 2d6 (average 7) shots at s5 ap-1 d1. I haven't done any math (if anyone wants to do it and it works out differently, I'll happily admit I'm wrong) but it appears the flamer pred is about as effective as an assback, but has to run super close and costs more points.

[Morticon]

UNITS: 

**Predator. 

The predator doesnt simply have an autocan - it has the Predator Autocannon.  Not only does if have 2d3 hits, its S7, -1 and most importantly....3dam!!!! A hefty price tag though.  The pred with this weapon alone comes in at 151. 

Still, on a T7, 11wound model, its not bad at all. 
 

Clocks in at 201 for the las/las/auto version though - but it will be an incredible vehicle hunter. 

FYI, the quad las version of this is only a point more at 202

[Morticon]

Baal preds vs razorbacks. The razorback is 42 points less than the Baal predator, and only loses 1 wound, 1 ld, and overcharged engines. So for the cost of two Baal predators with assault cannons and heavy bolters, you can take 3 razorbacks with assault cannons (and transport things too). Compare 36 assault cannon shots with 24 assault cannon shots and 12 heavy bolter shots. If I you really like the flamer pred, the razorback can't do that, but imo the dakka pred (or in this case razorback) is better. The assault cannon is 12 shots s6 ap-1 d1. The flame storm is d6 shots (average 3.5), ap-2 d2. the two heavy flamers are a further 2d6 (average 7) shots at s5 ap-1 d1. I haven't done any math (if anyone wants to do it and it works out differently, I'll happily admit I'm wrong) but it appears the flamer pred is about as effective as an assback, but has to run super close and costs more points.

 

 

Dont forget that if you move at all with the vehicles you're hitting on 4s ! 

The flamer doesnt have that problem. Additionally, you get to advance with the baal and still hit automatically with the heavy flamers. 

[durdle-durdle]

Baal preds vs razorbacks. The razorback is 42 points less than the Baal predator, and only loses 1 wound, 1 ld, and overcharged engines. So for the cost of two Baal predators with assault cannons and heavy bolters, you can take 3 razorbacks with assault cannons (and transport things too). Compare 36 assault cannon shots with 24 assault cannon shots and 12 heavy bolter shots. If I you really like the flamer pred, the razorback can't do that, but imo the dakka pred (or in this case razorback) is better. The assault cannon is 12 shots s6 ap-1 d1. The flame storm is d6 shots (average 3.5), ap-2 d2. the two heavy flamers are a further 2d6 (average 7) shots at s5 ap-1 d1. I haven't done any math (if anyone wants to do it and it works out differently, I'll happily admit I'm wrong) but it appears the flamer pred is about as effective as an assback, but has to run super close and costs more points.

Dont forget that if you move at all with the vehicles you're hitting on 4s !

The flamer doesnt have that problem. Additionally, you get to advance with the baal and still hit automatically with the heavy flamers.

That is true. I hadn't taken that into consideration. I do welcome someone to check the math on those though. I would very much like to know the statistical difference in the two.
(3 assbacks vs 2 dakka/flame preds)

Still, if you're sitting at 24", the -1 on move doesn't matter too much. And if someone gets close to you, 5 death co. Jump out and teach them a lesson.

Edited by durdle-durdle, 01 June 2017 - 10:43 PM.

[Arkhanist]

Rambo rhinos:

 

Units now disembark at the start of the Movement phase, before the Transport moves, but can then move, shoot and fight normally in that turn.

Vehicles can also advance, and charge into melee. Overwatch is automatic, and applies to all units that attempt a charge - until an enemy unit is within 1".

 

So say your death company in a rhino gets out at the start of the move - the rhino optionally moves and advances, then charges first. If it survives overwatch, the death company can now charge the same target without any overwatch risk. Applicable to all foot assault units with a mobile transport.

 

Rhinos can also take 2 msu tac squads. So two specials or two heavy weapons (one per squad), two combi weapons or storm bolters on the Sgts; so say 2 heavy flamers and 2 storm bolters = 2d6 str5 autohit and 20 bolters with a 14" threat range (no BBQ drivebys any more though, firing from transports only seems available for opentopped vehicles). Then your rhino can still charge after the BBQ to tie up counter assault threats.

 

Or a pod with 2 multimeltas and 2 combi grav as troops is tempting.

 

 

Dreadnought, what dreadnought?:

 

BA Librarian dreadnoughts are characters, unlike other dreads. Characters with less than 10 wounds (lib dread has 8) cannot be targeted unless they are the closest visible model to the firer. So as long as you keep him behind someone else, that 20 foot high metal monster can hide in plain sight.

 

 

Watch out above:

 

Stalkers (and other AA units) get +1 to hit against units that fly. That includes jump pack marines. Stalkers are heavy 6, s7, ap -2, 2 damage hitting jump marines on 2+. High priority target if you're taking sanguinary guard. But we can take them too in our detachments (astartes keyword) as long as they're painted differently, and they won't get that wound reroll in the fight phase from hanging out next to the company banner.

Edited by Arkhanist, 01 June 2017 - 11:41 PM.

[durdle-durdle]

Or a pod with 2 multimeltas and 2 combi grav as troops is tempting.

What about a pod with 2-5 man devastator units? 8 multimeltas and 2 combigravs. Expensive as heck, but hey, that's likely 2-3 dead vehicles.

Edited by durdle-durdle, 01 June 2017 - 11:38 PM.

[Arkhanist]

 

Or a pod with 2 multimeltas and 2 combi grav as troops is tempting.

What about a pod with 2-5 man devastator units? 8 multimeltas and 2 combigravs. Expensive as heck, but hey, that's likely 2-3 dead vehicles.

 

 

Legal, and yikes!

 

Edit: back-of-the-napkin mathhammer, I make that 483 points, doing 6 wounds on the drop against a 450+ point knight (7 wounds on subsequent turns if they live). Max wounds is enough to wipe out TWO knights in one turn though if you're extremely lucky. Would be hilarious though!

Edited by Arkhanist, 02 June 2017 - 12:19 AM.

[durdle-durdle]

Special weapons on point spam.

Company vets with jump packs +1-2 captains. Load up on special weapons (meltas, IMO). Come in turn one, and deploy around the captain. Enjoy your feth-load of meltas rerolling ones (meaning it's fairly safe to overcharge if you want plasma instead) and take out nearly any priority target.

Make an army of like half assbacks/preds and half this, I think it'd be pretty decent.

Note: blood angels only. No other chapter can do that, without having to invest in (expensive) drop pods.

32 ppm with plasma. 33 for dual pistols (for the cc shots). 36 points for meltas.

Edited by durdle-durdle, 02 June 2017 - 12:55 AM.

[CrimsonExarch]

Also have you read the part on corbulo that says if a UNIT within 6" of him rolls a 6 to hit in combat (so ANY model in a unit), then that UNIT gets to attack AGAIN IMMEDIATELY with the same weapon.

Food for thought guys

Edited by CrimsonExarch, 02 June 2017 - 01:20 AM.

[Arkhanist]

Special weapons on point spam.

Company vets with jump packs +1-2 captains. Load up on special weapons (meltas, IMO). Come in turn one, and deploy around the captain. Enjoy your feth-load of meltas rerolling ones (meaning it's fairly safe to overcharge if you want plasma instead) and take out nearly any priority target.

 

Plus the company vets give the captain look out sir! Plasma, might be better to go gunslinger plasma pistols on vanguard vets

(edit, missed company vets could take specials, not just combi)

 

VV are a point cheaper, two plasma pistols 1 point more than plasma gun. Less range, more zap. jump pack specials tho, BA company vets are unique. 

Edited by Arkhanist, 02 June 2017 - 12:48 AM.

[durdle-durdle]

So you know the +1 str aura priests give? That thing stacks with more priests...just saying.....
Also have you read the part on corbulo that says if a UNIT within 6" of him rolls a 6 to hit in combat (so ANY model in a unit), then that UNIT gets to attack AGAIN IMMEDIATELY with the same weapon.

Food for thought guys

I don't think the priests work that way. It says "friendly blood angels infantry and bikers increase their strength by 1 when within 6" of any sanguinary priests." That sounds to me like I could be in range of 1-1000 priests and still get only +1.

[Nemisor]

definitely liking the look of crusaders, lots of fire ( and by lots, i mean 41 shots within 12") , good capacity and frag launchers dealing mortal wounds ( and mortal wounds damage overflows to other models ) and potms ignores the -1 to hit for movement. 

 

and jump packs can go in landraiders now....amaze!!!

Edited by Ageis, 02 June 2017 - 02:08 AM.

[Morticon]

Rambo rhinos:

 

Units now disembark at the start of the Movement phase, before the Transport moves, but can then move, shoot and fight normally in that turn.

Vehicles can also advance, and charge into melee. Overwatch is automatic, and applies to all units that attempt a charge - until an enemy unit is within 1".

 

So say your death company in a rhino gets out at the start of the move - the rhino optionally moves and advances, then charges first. If it survives overwatch, the death company can now charge the same target without any overwatch risk. Applicable to all foot assault units with a mobile transport.

 

 

 

Ark - sadly not how it works anymore.  You declare ALL your charges, and you get to overwatch everything charging you.  There's no more restriction - in fact, it explicitly says you can fire many times a turn.  

[Morticon]

Also have you read the part on corbulo that says if a UNIT within 6" of him rolls a 6 to hit in combat (so ANY model in a unit), then that UNIT gets to attack AGAIN IMMEDIATELY with the same weapon.

Food for thought guys

 

Yup yup. ts a single attack per 6 rolled per model, though-  so, not as if the "unit" gets to attack with everything again.  So, very nice, but not silly broken good. 

[Morticon]

** WEAPON CONSIDERATION.

 

Remember, while pistols can be fired within 1", they can also only be fired at the closest unit! 

[Grazcruzk]

Putting in my two cents for dual chainsword vanguard veterans. From what I can see, you are allowed to replace the bolt pistol with a weapon from the melee list and it's even a straight trade at 0 points. Add Corbs for even more fun.

[Morticon]

Graz, sadly there's no benefit to doing that.  
We dont get bonus attacks, and the chainsword rule requires that you attack with it to get its benefit - not just be armed with it.  So, no bonus :/

[Xenith]

Graz, sadly there's no benefit to doing that.  
We dont get bonus attacks, and the chainsword rule requires that you attack with it to get its benefit - not just be armed with it.  So, no bonus :/

 

An A2 model can split its attacks between weapons, though, to make 1A with each chainsword, granting the bonus from each.

[Bartali]

I keep saying it, but the Stormraven is the most improved unit in the codex. Starts on the table now, so much more useful for getting Dreads into combat. Huge increase in firepower with the changes to twin-linked, and is a proper multi-tasker. Twin AssCan, Hurricane Bolter, Twin Melta, Stormstrike will give you :-

 

12x S6 AP-1, D1

12/24 x S4, AP0, D1

2x S8, AP-4, D1d6

1x S8, AP-3, D3

 

Stomraven is also the second most durable vehicle in the book after the Land Raiders at T7/W14/3+, and it's -1 to be hit too if Supersonic. 

[vahouth]

GAME MECHANICS:

 

 

** Matched play and psychic powers.

 

Correction...."power".  In matched play, only one psychic power can be cast.  Full stop.  Not one per psyker.  One.  

 

 

 

I'm not reading that mate. 

It says that each psychic power can be cast only once. Not that you can cast only one power.

Also Smite can be cast by any.

[Grazcruzk]

 

Graz, sadly there's no benefit to doing that.  
We dont get bonus attacks, and the chainsword rule requires that you attack with it to get its benefit - not just be armed with it.  So, no bonus :/

 

An A2 model can split its attacks between weapons, though, to make 1A with each chainsword, granting the bonus from each.

 

 

 

This was my line of thinking, one attack with each and each would grant another. I'm not sure if it is intended, though.

[helterskelter]

If assault marines are troops I was considering a (most likely a successor) BA heavy jump pack assault army with 3 squads of inceptors(? Jump pack primaris) with assault marines filling the troop slots. My only current issue is big vehicle/monster death whilst keeping within the realms of the style