OrbOfAntioch Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Preparing for my 1st "large" 8th game, aka a normal 2k game... Detachments: 2 -Vanguard (+1CP) -Air Wing (+1CP) Units: -Dante -Mephiston -3x Storm Ravens, same load out: Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Hurricane Bolters, Missiles. -4x Command Vets w/JP, 4x Plasma Rifles -5x SG, Axes and Plasma -5x VV, 5SSs, 4THs -7x JP DC, all Bolter & Chainsword -7 DC, all Bolter & Chainsword Strategy: -Move 3x Ravens up, transporting VVs, SGs and non-JP DCs inside -JPA Dante between the SR trinity, JPA Command Vets, and use JP DC around dante for some bubble wrap protection -Use Dante's 6" reroll to boost every shooting unit, and unload all SR weapons and overcharged plasma at enemy near and far. -Follow up with T2 charges on priority units using VV/SG, deliverying out of SRs for 15"move, use Mephiston for 4++ on something, and Dante for reroll to hit for SG/VV in combat. Couple of hesitations: -Super light on infantry units.... is that okay? -Not sure if Mephiston is better than a Sanguinary Priest/Corbulo plus some more DCs. I like him because he's Str 10 and can monster hunt out of SR while giving a 4++ to my SGs.. but.. -Can I squeeze in a techmarine in there? Are they even good for fixing SRs? What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 That is a LOT of dakka, especially with the re-rolls from Dante. If you can weather the storm of the enemy turn one you should hit thier lines like a freakin' sledge hammer. I'd certainly focus your forces though as each casualty will hurt - though hitting a lot of units and not wiping them out will force your opponent to either counter charge or fall back. If they fall back that's great, as you'll have disabled that unit and then be able to dakka it with the ravens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) Sanguinary Guard with Angelus bolters being to assault in, do damage, bounce out, and shoot the unit with high rates of fire power may be better than advertised. Keyword <Fly> in general is really good actually. As well as disengaging and casting smite, and other psychic power x. We couldn't find anywhere in the LRB or BRB where you couldn't disengage and still cast powers. FLY is a good keyword. Being able to bounce out of combat and then shoot is good for units like Inceptors, Warp Spiders and Battlesuits who rely on mobile firepower but SG usually want to be in combat so they are not getting shot and they can get the value out of their expensive weapons. Instead of bouncing out and shooting, take plasma pistols and you can stay in combat and shoot instead. As for Smite, the rules say you cannot shoot or assault if you withdraw from combat (and shooting is negated by FLY). It doesn't say it restricts psychic powers so I think you can cast away. I was actually in a situation where I was going to be overwhelmed in Prolonged combat.Disengaging was the safer play, as I moved from combat into ruins to have that important 1+ save, and the bolters did enough damage to force moral to take extra wounds. 5 Strength 7 shots is good, but not when you need 10+ that wound on 3s. edit: I am not one to break off arms just to maximize efficiency. So, Angelus Bolters it was. For what they offer and what they do I'm okay with them. being able to wound T6-7 on 5s has its perks. That's not to say I'm not taking specialist pistols on SG. I have just noticed weight of fire is a big deal this edition; at least that's my recognition after 2 games. Edited June 22, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 -Super light on infantry units.... is that okay? -Not sure if Mephiston is better than a Sanguinary Priest/Corbulo plus some more DCs. I like him because he's Str 10 and can monster hunt out of SR while giving a 4++ to my SGs.. but.. -Can I squeeze in a techmarine in there? Are they even good for fixing SRs? Infantry are nothing special in 8th ed. Any unit can claim an objective and ObjSec is no longer a thing. Mephy is a beat stick but you already have the VanVets for monster hunting. Corbulo and/or Lemartes might give you more bang for your buck. Sadly Techmarines cannot fix vehicles from inside them. He would have to disembark to do repairs and after that he will probably have difficulty keeping up with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) Preparing for my 1st "large" 8th game, aka a normal 2k game... Detachments: 2 -Vanguard (+1CP) -Air Wing (+1CP) Units: -Dante -Mephiston -3x Storm Ravens, same load out: Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Hurricane Bolters, Missiles. -4x Command Vets w/JP, 4x Plasma Rifles -5x SG, Axes and Plasma -5x VV, 5SSs, 4THs -7x JP DC, all Bolter & Chainsword -7 DC, all Bolter & Chainsword Strategy: -Move 3x Ravens up, transporting VVs, SGs and non-JP DCs inside -JPA Dante between the SR trinity, JPA Command Vets, and use JP DC around dante for some bubble wrap protection -Use Dante's 6" reroll to boost every shooting unit, and unload all SR weapons and overcharged plasma at enemy near and far. -Follow up with T2 charges on priority units using VV/SG, deliverying out of SRs for 15"move, use Mephiston for 4++ on something, and Dante for reroll to hit for SG/VV in combat. Couple of hesitations: -Super light on infantry units.... is that okay? -Not sure if Mephiston is better than a Sanguinary Priest/Corbulo plus some more DCs. I like him because he's Str 10 and can monster hunt out of SR while giving a 4++ to my SGs.. but.. -Can I squeeze in a techmarine in there? Are they even good for fixing SRs? What do you guys think? If you change the 2x 7 man DC units into 3x 5 man by scraping some points from somewhere (maybe drop a single command vet?), you have 6 elites, and can put 3 of them +1 HQ into a second Vanguard detachment, giving you 2xVanguard an 1x airwing for one more command point that you have right now. Edited June 22, 2017 by Xenith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kappel Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I would say it looks powerfull. Good idea with the Bolters on the DC - more dakka and no penalty in CC (besides no shooting pistols in the following turn, when everything is dead anyway). And 3 Storm Ravens is gonna be really annoying having zipping around. I look forward to hear how it goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbOfAntioch Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 2 Vanguard Detachments vs. 1 is definitely more advantageous, and since you can fit multiple units in the same transport, there doesn't seem to me any impediment other than #total units for deployment. I just love Mephiston's 8th profile though.. for 145pts he's just so amazing. I know it doesn't fit the rhythm of this list, seems to me he's almost like a 200pt VV TH squad all in himself, plus all the boons of buffing. Question for deployment: If I place, say, an HQ + an infantry unit INSIDE a transport, for deployment purposes, does that count as 1 deployment unit, or 3? -In the former, I would say "I'm deploying this rhino, it has my captain and a squad of marines" -In the latter, I would say "I'm deploying this rhino", and then after the opponent counter deploys, I would then say "I'm putting this captain in this rhino", etc. -The former I have 1 unit for the purpose of deployment, the latter 3; assuming having the least deployment units is advantageous because you can elect to go first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminatorAM Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 -Super light on infantry units.... is that okay? Infantry are nothing special in 8th ed. Any unit can claim an objective and ObjSec is no longer a thing. This has me thinking, are troops even worth taking for anything other than extra command points from certain detachments? And will the 2 extra CP from a Battalion Detachments make that much of a difference compared to a Vanguard Detachment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Question for deployment: If I place, say, an HQ + an infantry unit INSIDE a transport, for deployment purposes, does that count as 1 deployment unit, or 3? Transport + occupants is one deployment move. So rhino + 2x 5 man assault squads is on deploy option. Indefragable 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 this is actually a cool tactic of you are wanting to fully deploy first. 3+ units in a land raider/storm raven greatly reduces model placement. Indefragable 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) -Super light on infantry units.... is that okay?Infantry are nothing special in 8th ed. Any unit can claim an objective and ObjSec is no longer a thing. Yet This has me thinking, are troops even worth taking for anything other than extra command points from certain detachments? And will the 2 extra CP from a Battalion Detachments make that much of a difference compared to a Vanguard Detachment? FTFY. (btw I am just catching up to speed on this thread so I apologize if some of this has been covered already). BA Troops are something I have always struggled with. In 7th, BA Tacticals really only distinguished themselves with flamer spam and the fact that they could hop out of Fast Rhinos/R-Backs. Furious Charge on Tacticals really only became a factor (for me, in my experience in my meta) when finishing off a weakened MEQ/GEQ Obj holder. With 8th, all of our non-proprietary units/variations of units (like Jump Pack Command Squads) are exactly the same as everyone else's. Why that's good: Whatever works for other SM flavors works exactly the same for us. Literally copy + paste tactics/loadouts from other chapters. I wouldn't even consider Heavy Flamers on Tacticals any more * Why that's bad: Without Fast Transports, a lot of what made our Tacticals click with our (typically) fast n' hard playstyle has been lost. Indy's hypothesis for 8th: When it comes to Troops, unless I want reliable cheap Obj holders for the backfield, I may skip Tacticals all together in favor of Scouts. Why? For the cost of a single melta bomb more than a blank Tactical squad, you get a unit that is superior in every way. Scouts get: 3+ Save in cover BS3+ bolters WS3+ punching Character-assassination tools (sniper rifles) if you want to go that route S5 Assault 2 shotguns (if in 6")....which you can charge after Built-in mobility (Concealed Positions) ...And....most importantly....using Concealed Positions means you have fantastic screening units for your own army line. Everywhere you set up a scout means the enemy has to deploy their own infiltrators/deep strikers 9+ inches away from your Scouts. You have homegrown servo skulls. *because Devastators are the new black for BA: Hidden Content Devastators can take 4x heavy weapons Index Imperium 1 says: "Add the following weapon to the Heavy Weapons list when equipping Blood Angels units: Heavy Flamer" Devastators are the new BA Tacticals http://i.imgur.com/Jf0okND.gif http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/joe-pesci-flame-thrower.gif Edited June 22, 2017 by Indefragable simison and Karhedron 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Remind me what's the benefit of finishing deployment first? I always thought deploying last would be advantageous as you already know where the opponent's units are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbOfAntioch Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 In which case, the 2k list will only have potentially 6 deployment units -SR1 + units inside -SR2 + units inside -SR3 + units inside -Dante -CVs -DC JP Which Should ensure going first, getting Alpha Strike with Dakka jets, and then T2 surgical strikes with Meph/SG/VVs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
requizen Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I really like the idea of a mobile shooting army. Is BA capable of doing that or are they more focused on melee combat over dakka? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I'm really liking the idea of a grav gun on a tactical squad, especially dropping out of a pod. It will also help against things like FnP rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Preparing for my 1st "large" 8th game, aka a normal 2k game... Detachments: 2 -Vanguard (+1CP) -Air Wing (+1CP) Units: -Dante -Mephiston -3x Storm Ravens, same load out: Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Hurricane Bolters, Missiles. -4x Command Vets w/JP, 4x Plasma Rifles -5x SG, Axes and Plasma -5x VV, 5SSs, 4THs -7x JP DC, all Bolter & Chainsword -7 DC, all Bolter & Chainsword Strategy: -Move 3x Ravens up, transporting VVs, SGs and non-JP DCs inside -JPA Dante between the SR trinity, JPA Command Vets, and use JP DC around dante for some bubble wrap protection -Use Dante's 6" reroll to boost every shooting unit, and unload all SR weapons and overcharged plasma at enemy near and far. -Follow up with T2 charges on priority units using VV/SG, deliverying out of SRs for 15"move, use Mephiston for 4++ on something, and Dante for reroll to hit for SG/VV in combat. Couple of hesitations: -Super light on infantry units.... is that okay? -Not sure if Mephiston is better than a Sanguinary Priest/Corbulo plus some more DCs. I like him because he's Str 10 and can monster hunt out of SR while giving a 4++ to my SGs.. but.. -Can I squeeze in a techmarine in there? Are they even good for fixing SRs? What do you guys think? Storm Ravens are very very good this edition. Putting units inside transport reduces your deploy penalty and allows 1st turn alpha. You want the 1st turn alpha because so much dakka will be coming towards those Ravens. I have learnt you can mitigate the dakka by deep striking melta suicide squads to take out or cripple the anti armour units that threaten your Ravens. Blood Angels have the best unit armour units around with so much jump pack melta. Look at grabbing a generic space marine captain and jamming a jump pack on him for re-rolls to hit of 1. Getting in half the distance for range for an extra armour pen is not that important in 8th. Getting the melta armour pen is, and thats what command points and captains are for. Scouts are good cheap hard to shift units that fill the troop requirement nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Remind me what's the benefit of finishing deployment first? I always thought deploying last would be advantageous as you already know where the opponent's units are. You get to choose whether you take the first or second turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semirhagge Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 -Super light on infantry units.... is that okay?Infantry are nothing special in 8th ed. Any unit can claim an objective and ObjSec is no longer a thing. Yet This has me thinking, are troops even worth taking for anything other than extra command points from certain detachments? And will the 2 extra CP from a Battalion Detachments make that much of a difference compared to a Vanguard Detachment? FTFY. (btw I am just catching up to speed on this thread so I apologize if some of this has been covered already). BA Troops are something I have always struggled with. In 7th, BA Tacticals really only distinguished themselves with flamer spam and the fact that they could hop out of Fast Rhinos/R-Backs. Furious Charge on Tacticals really only became a factor (for me, in my experience in my meta) when finishing off a weakened MEQ/GEQ Obj holder. With 8th, all of our non-proprietary units/variations of units (like Jump Pack Command Squads) are exactly the same as everyone else's. Why that's good: Whatever works for other SM flavors works exactly the same for us. Literally copy + paste tactics/loadouts from other chapters. I wouldn't even consider Heavy Flamers on Tacticals any more * Why that's bad: Without Fast Transports, a lot of what made our Tacticals click with our (typically) fast n' hard playstyle has been lost. Indy's hypothesis for 8th: When it comes to Troops, unless I want reliable cheap Obj holders for the backfield, I may skip Tacticals all together in favor of Scouts. Why? For the cost of a single melta bomb more than a blank Tactical squad, you get a unit that is superior in every way. Scouts get: 3+ Save in cover BS3+ bolters WS3+ punching Character-assassination tools (sniper rifles) if you want to go that route S5 Assault 2 shotguns (if in 6")....which you can charge after Built-in mobility (Concealed Positions) ...And....most importantly....using Concealed Positions means you have fantastic screening units for your own army line. Everywhere you set up a scout means the enemy has to deploy their own infiltrators/deep strikers 9+ inches away from your Scouts. You have homegrown servo skulls. *because Devastators are the new black for BA: Hidden Content Devastators can take 4x heavy weapons Index Imperium 1 says: "Add the following weapon to the Heavy Weapons list when equipping Blood Angels units: Heavy Flamer" Devastators are the new BA Tacticals http://i.imgur.com/Jf0okND.gif http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/joe-pesci-flame-thrower.gif I am really enjoying BA tacticals so far. Even more so when paired with a Razorback. 5 man units with a combi weapon and power sword on the Sgt, and a grav cannon(grave cannon did so much work in my last game). I am going to be trying the heavy flamer next game only because it negates all -1 to hit modifiers. the 8" range is a negative but i like charging anyways. I am hoping once we get our "Chapter Tactics" charging tacticals will be more powerful. anything similar to furious charge or the 30k rule ( requires one less to wound with a melee weapon) would be amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Close combat scouts look very promising! Especially with a low model count army as its likely you will get a good amount of turn 1 charges in. Dolchiate Remembrancer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Got my first game of 8th on Sunday...! Going to be a big learning experience and i'll be against the Imperial Guard. No clue what kind of list to take but probably something just a bit all round so a mix of: Square Firestorm (maybe in a RHINO!?!) Jump DC Sniper Scouts Baal Pred Tri-las Pred Vindicator Storm Raven Mephiston for some Psyker practise Grav Bikes...?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Just don't forget you can't use grenades in CQC and be stuck on the wrong end of, if I disengage I'm going to eat suppressing fire and flamers for days. Locking you in combat with a tank for 2-3 turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimm Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Anyone used a bike squad with grav in 8th. Curious as to how they play as they don't look as solid as they did now. Are there now better options for bikes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) Anyone used a bike squad with grav in 8th. Curious as to how they play as they don't look as solid as they did now. Are there now better options for bikes? Well, they've had a large boost in firepower, seeing as the bike can now fire both plasma/grav gun and the bolters with no penalty. Within 12" a 3 man bike squad with 2xplas, combi plas is putting out 6 plasma shots and 16 bolt shots per turn. Edited June 23, 2017 by Xenith Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Anyone used a bike squad with grav in 8th. Curious as to how they play as they don't look as solid as they did now. Are there now better options for bikes? I think bikes in general got a bit of a boost but I think Grav as the dominant special weapon has passed. It's rate of fire is diminished and big monsters no longer fear it like they did. It is not bad but it is no longer and auto-take over plasma or melta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 I think Grav is still a great PEQ killer. and in some cases not a terrible trade off for plasma. both weapons are wounding T8 on 5s, unless you overcharge and one is doing D3 damage. Both are solid options. Heavy Grav vs Heavy Plasma is definitely a cool investment too. Even if you over charge on a D3 shots, the extra shots still go off even if you roll a 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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