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8th Ed BA Tactica.


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#376
Charlo

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Another one about bikes is that swapping the bolt pistol for a chainsword finally makes sense, giving the extra dudes without special weapons another attack in combat.


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#377
Jorre

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So I just noticed that land raiders can now transport Jump Infantry! With a 3" disembark and 12" move thats got to be useful for getting a charge of with a SG/DC or even a Vanguard squad!


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#378
TrawlingCleaner

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What do people think about missile launchers? I had 2 500 point games with a 5 man tac squad with missile launcher in my list, the missile launcher did work and is actually good versus the majority of opponents

#379
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Good weapon with nice variety of target opportunities. But if you are engaging tanks, the Lascannon is the same price but purely better.


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#380
Karhedronuk

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If I were buying a multi-role weapon, I would be tempted by the Plasma Cannon, provided I had some way to reroll 1s when overcharging. D3 shots at S8 with 2 wounds is actually pretty effective at dealing with vehicles (provided you don't blow yourself up at the same time).

Probably works better for Space Puppies than Blood Angels though as Long Fangs get to reroll 1s without the help of a character when they concentrate fire.

Tempted to run my Devs with 4 Plasmas anyway and a cheap Captain to babysit them.

#381
Indefragable

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I've had a few games under my belt now: 2x 50 power games, 1x BA, 1x IG, and 1x 3000pt game with Dark Angels last night.

 

Couple points of note so far:

 

-8th edition can be absolutely brutal. The lethality has been dialed up big time.

 

-don't be lulled into a false sense of security with Cover. Things with AP-3 etc.... will still absolutely chew through your dudes....

 

-....speaking of, lascannons are absolutely brutal this edition. Their range + AP-3 + D: D6 packs such a wallop. My Land Raider was downed in 2x rounds of shooting....even with -1 To Hit and 4++ bubbles (Darkshroud/Azrael)

 

-I am not a fan of New Coke Space Marines......but censored.gifcensored.gif : cuss Primaris Lieutenants may be a dang-near necessity. Re-rolling 1's To Wound for everything can make a huge difference. Especially said lascannons above.

 

-the Horde Ascendent. Horde armies are going to absolutely dominate this edition. In the 3k game, I fought Black Templars that had almost seventy (yes, 70) power armored bodies within close proximity getting to re-roll To Hit from Helbrecht and re-roll 1's To Wound from a Prim LT. Brutality incarnate. Without blast templates, this is especially brutal because my opponent (brilliantly) had several combat squaded Tac squads surrounding a giant Crusader squad unit. Like a plastic bumper on a car, those Combat squads had to be individually removed. And since Cover is +1 to Save....that's 2+ Saves for those 70x bodies.

--"but we have flamers!" you cry. Yes....but even a 4x Heavy Flamer Devastator squad will only be hitting one unit at a time. So splash damage is kaput.

 

-"What do they call the person who finishes last in medical school?" II had Apothecaries, medics, and/or Sanguinary Priests in all of my games. I never healed a single wound. Granted, since its a 4+ to do so, karma/math says they should work for me in the future. But we all know how anecdotal evidence is king smile.png

--I think BA have an advantage here since Sang Priests A) fulfill HQ tax B ) we're mostly taking them for the +1S. A 50% chance to heal something is a bonus.

--I think Apoths will really be most useful for healing multi-wound characters. Bringing a single body back in a big unit on a 50/50 role is....alright. But if you have a 50% chance, you might as well go big or go home and try to give your beatstick D3 wounds back (IMO so far).

 

-TH/SS Terminators are absolutely brutal this edition. 2W/2+ for fending off small arms, but the 3++ has never been more valuable. My BT opponent Deep Struck 5x of these guys (my models I had just sold him....BETRAYAL!!!!!) into the rear of my deployment zone and proceeded to eat up half my armie's shooting and fended off 3x units that charged them.

 

-speaking of Deep Striking.....Regular Terminators may be the secret assassins of the game. No-scatter Deep Strike behind the enemy's setup, aka exposing enemy HQ units to fire = naaaaaaaaaasty.

 

-Multi-Damage weapons are nasty en masse. Hence why buffed lascannon Devs (and equiv) are going to be on a lot of tables. My Land Raider lost 8wounds in a single volley of lascannon fire (did I mention the enemy had -1 To Hit and the LR had a 4++?). All it took was 2x wounds to go through, and then Damage rolls of 6 + 2. LR was cut down to BS 5+ and 5" movement for the rest of the game.

 

-Chainswords have grown on me. For their cost (0pts !!!) they are brilliant. Where they have really come into their own is on models like Tactical Sgts, Veterans w/ special weapons, etc... They become a force multiplier in the "small wars." I had quite a few Tactical units whittle down to 2 men, but they get 4x attacks because Sgts get 2A + 1 from chainsword. That might not sound like much, but it makes a difference.

--in contrast I am surmising that any dedicated CQC weapon is better off with power weapons or other shinier toys as combat is just too censored.gif lethal now not to kill things as viciously as possible as quickly as possible

--so Chainswords have a bit of a diminishing return: they are good at giving units like Tacticals and Devastators and extra swing or two that can make a difference. Likewise, they turn jump pack ASM into the harassing units they are meant to be. ASM and Devastators are the perfect ying/yang because Devs WILL destroy things at range, but having the extra attacks helps make sure that ASM have an edge when (if) they make it into combat

 

-Verdict is out on Librarians (I used 3x last night). Much simpler to get powers off and throwing Mortal Wounds on things is a big force multiplier. Other powers can be tricky, like the Leadership debuff one for Dark Angels needs your Libby to be within 6" of an enemy unit....which if he's hanging back, you don't necessarily want him to be there. Need more data on these fellas.

 

-Rhinos are amazing. Take 2x Storm bolters for 8 shots in Rapid Fire range and eat overwatch for days.

 

-I'm not sure what I think of the new To Wound system. I suppose I should be happy that things are less extreme....but at the risk of sound whiny.....it's boring rolling 3's and 5's for everything. I think I would prefer if the Strength of a weapon was 4 points greater than the Targets strength it would wound on a 2+. So S8 would still wound T4 on a 2+, but then S9 would wound T5 on a 2+, etc... Right now the gulf between T4 and T5 is just as extreme as ever, which I am disappointed in since I thought 8th was going to "fix" a lot of those issues.


Edited by Indefragable, Today, 03:13 PM.

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#382
Are Verlo

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I've had a few games under my belt now: 2x 50 power games, 1x BA, 1x IG, and 1x 3000pt game with Dark Angels last night.

 

Couple points of note so far:

 

-8th edition can be absolutely brutal. The lethality has been dialed up big time.

 

-don't be lulled into a false sense of security with Cover. Things with AP-3 etc.... will still absolutely chew through your dudes....

 

-....speaking of, lascannons are absolutely brutal this edition. Their range + AP-3 + D: D6 packs such a wallop. My Land Raider was downed in 2x rounds of shooting....even with -1 To Hit and 4++ bubbles (Darkshroud/Azrael)

 

-I am not a fan of New Coke Space Marines......but censored.gifcensored.gif : cuss Primaris Lieutenants may be a dang-near necessity. Re-rolling 1's To Wound for everything can make a huge difference. Especially said lascannons above.

 

-the Horde Ascendent. Horde armies are going to absolutely dominate this edition. In the 3k game, I fought Black Templars that had almost seventy (yes, 70) power armored bodies within close proximity getting to re-roll To Hit from Helbrecht and re-roll 1's To Wound from a Prim LT. Brutality incarnate. Without blast templates, this is especially brutal because my opponent (brilliantly) had several combat squaded Tac squads surrounding a giant Crusader squad unit. Like a plastic bumper on a car, those Combat squads had to be individually removed. And since Cover is +1 to Save....that's 2+ Saves for those 70x bodies.

--"but we have flamers!" you cry. Yes....but even a 4x Heavy Flamer Devastator squad will only be hitting one unit at a time. So splash damage is kaput.

 

-"What do they call the person who finishes last in medical school?" II had Apothecaries, medics, and/or Sanguinary Priests in all of my games. I never healed a single wound. Granted, since its a 4+ to do so, karma/math says they should work for me in the future. But we all know how anecdotal evidence is king smile.png

--I think BA have an advantage here since Sang Priests A) fulfill HQ tax B ) we're mostly taking them for the +1S. A 50% chance to heal something is a bonus.

--I think Apoths will really be most useful for healing multi-wound characters. Bringing a single body back in a big unit on a 50/50 role is....alright. But if you have a 50% chance, you might as well go big or go home and try to give your beatstick D3 wounds back (IMO so far).

 

-TH/SS Terminators are absolutely brutal this edition. 2W/2+ for fending off small arms, but the 3++ has never been more valuable. My BT opponent Deep Struck 5x of these guys (my models I had just sold him....BETRAYAL!!!!!) into the rear of my deployment zone and proceeded to eat up half my armie's shooting and fended off 3x units that charged them.

 

-speaking of Deep Striking.....Regular Terminators may be the secret assassins of the game. No-scatter Deep Strike behind the enemy's setup, aka exposing enemy HQ units to fire = naaaaaaaaaasty.

 

-Multi-Damage weapons are nasty en masse. Hence why buffed lascannon Devs (and equiv) are going to be on a lot of tables. My Land Raider lost 8wounds in a single volley of lascannon fire (did I mention the enemy had -1 To Hit and the LR had a 4++?). All it took was 2x wounds to go through, and then Damage rolls of 6 + 2. LR was cut down to BS 5+ and 5" movement for the rest of the game.

 

-Chainswords have grown on me. For their cost (0pts !!!) they are brilliant. Where they have really come into their own is on models like Tactical Sgts, Veterans w/ special weapons, etc... They become a force multiplier in the "small wars." I had quite a few Tactical units whittle down to 2 men, but they get 4x attacks because Sgts get 2A + 1 from chainsword. That might not sound like much, but it makes a difference.

--in contrast I am surmising that any dedicated CQC weapon is better off with power weapons or other shinier toys as combat is just too censored.gif lethal now not to kill things as viciously as possible as quickly as possible

--so Chainswords have a bit of a diminishing return: they are good at giving units like Tacticals and Devastators and extra swing or two that can make a difference. Likewise, they turn jump pack ASM into the harassing units they are meant to be. ASM and Devastators are the perfect ying/yang because Devs WILL destroy things at range, but having the extra attacks helps make sure that ASM have an edge when (if) they make it into combat

 

-Verdict is out on Librarians (I used 3x last night). Much simpler to get powers off and throwing Mortal Wounds on things is a big force multiplier. Other powers can be tricky, like the Leadership debuff one for Dark Angels needs your Libby to be within 6" of an enemy unit....which if he's hanging back, you don't necessarily want him to be there. Need more data on these fellas.

 

-Rhinos are amazing. Take 2x Storm bolters for 8 shots in Rapid Fire range and eat overwatch for days.

 

-I'm not sure what I think of the new To Wound system. I suppose I should be happy that things are less extreme....but at the risk of sound whiny.....it's boring rolling 3's and 5's for everything. I think I would prefer if the Strength of a weapon was 4 points greater than the Targets strength it would wound on a 2+. So S8 would still wound T4 on a 2+, but then S9 would wound T5 on a 2+, etc... Right now the gulf between T4 and T5 is just as extreme as ever, which I am disappointed in since I thought 8th was going to "fix" a lot of those issues.

Thank you for sharing your hard earned insight :-D

But I might be reading you wrong regarding the massed PA bodies getting cover? The way I read the rules models don´t get cover from other models, just for being on/in terrain or being obscured by terrain? The combat squads wont give the crusaders behind them cover?

 

Edit: some random thoughts on the gap/gulf between T4 and T5: for my guardsmen the new to wound system is godsendt, they wound marines and bikers on the good old 5+. I find that a good thing. Now the men keeping the darkness at bay with their flashlights can bring the fight to bikers as well as traitors and heretics in power armour :-P


Edited by Are Verlo, Today, 06:26 PM.


#383
Ishagu

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So... I lost to BA yesterday.
My list included:

-Marneus Calgar
-2 Honour Guard
-20 Tacticals with Plasma and Grav
-3 Grav Centurions
-Apothecary
-Vindicare Assasin
-Relic Deredeo with various upgrades
-Relic Sicaran with various upgrades
-Godhammer Landraider with Multi Melta

BA list was:

-Sanguinor
-Terminator Ancient
-Sanguinary Priest
-Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack
-10 Death Company with Jump Packs
-5 TH/SS Terminators
-5 LC Terminators
-Landraider Crusader with HK Missile
-Stormraven Gunship

So, the Sanguinor is very good. He's delicate, but he was able to cut down Calgar after he rolled 5/6 4++ invuls.
The synergy between the ancient, Sanguinor and Priest was very powerful.

The Death Company failed a charge when they deepstruck and I was able to clear them out.

After some good positioning, and the INFURIATING consolidations in combat I was unable to use many of my units for the second and third turns of the game, due to the penalty of disengaging from combat.

Stormraven is great, able to deploy out of LoS in a far corner and still fly to deliver a unit in time for turn 2. Even though I shot it down on my first turn (I went second) it was able to cripple my Sicaran.

Learnt a lot. BA are much better than they initially seem! Terminators are a legitimately good unit now.

Edited by Ishagu, Today, 06:42 PM.

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