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8th Ed BA Tactica.


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#976
sfPanzer

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The question comes down to whether you should use the points from the same book as the datasheet, or use the datasheet from the codex with the points from the index. To me, it doesn't make any sense to be pulling points from a different book than the datasheet. If we look at say, Hellblasters, they gained new options with the codex, so clearly we need to pull their points values from the codex, since they don't exist in the index at all. It would make the most sense for that to carry over to any other unit that's being used from the C:SM book.

 

I guess a decent example would be: can a tactical sgt take melta bombs?

 

The C:SM errata added them as an option; AFAIK no similar change has been made to I:I1. By the WC article, we *can* use the C:SM tactical squad datasheet and so the MB option is available to us.

 

Though, as always, a gaming group where this is an issue probably has bigger ones to deal with.

 

No that wouldn't be a good example. Options on the Datasheet and point costs are something entirely different in 8th.


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#977
Valistan

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Blood Angels (Stepan Zotov, Russia) took 4th place at the ETC 2017! His list  you can find on the 2:06 of this video



#978
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Interesting... though it kinda looks like another cherry-picked "BA" list, 40 conscripts and a bunch of other odd (non-BA) units, still more BA than some lists I guess.


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#979
Valistan

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Interesting... though it kinda looks like another cherry-picked "BA" list, 40 conscripts and a bunch of other odd (non-BA) units, still more BA than some lists I guess.

Below the version of this list for the Team ETC 2017 (Team Russia took 1st place) without 40 conscripts:

Spoiler

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#980
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Grats to him.

Another "BA" list dry.png

 

Edit - i like the second list more. Im curious to see how it it plays. 


Edited by Morticon, 13 August 2017 - 07:37 PM.

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#981
Valistan

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Edit - i like the second list more. Im curious to see how it it plays. 

In his video he said that the main thing is  flexibility of the list. His army can fight mele and shoot. In addition, it was a big surprise for opponents. They did not know how it is played and made many mistakes.


Edited by Valistan, 13 August 2017 - 07:48 PM.


#982
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Interesting to see how useful Jump Vets with storm bolters are proving. They seem incredibly efficient for their points cost.
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#983
Spagunk

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Interesting to see how useful Jump Vets with storm bolters are proving. They seem incredibly efficient for their points cost.

Just looking at it, it's actually not a bad idea. Since they made them rapid 2 for storm bolters, I've been slowly thinking about what it would take to pump some more into my units.

Hell, I may end up doing this rather than my gunslinger van vets I had been planning to do. 4 shots at 12 and 3 attacks is pretty good imo. Cheap too!


Edited by Spagunk, 14 August 2017 - 12:09 AM.

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#984
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I'm liking the idea of Stormbolters too!

A terminator squad with assault cannon pumps out a lot of shots and can teleport within rapid fire range...
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#985
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Been running stormbolter vets in multiple games. They are quite good, however i do think that last list will struggle in a non team event. Still very creative list and strange lists do help as people have not practiced against it. 



#986
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Has anyone added any redemptors or hellblasters to their list? Any synergy with our assault units (since they provide long range firepower)?

 

I am really interested in getting a heavy plasma cannon hellblaster squad so I have a 24-30-36 firebase to help take pressure off my assault line. But that redemptor looks really good (for long range and short) and is very mobile. Seems like it would match our Baal Preds with the amount of dakka it can do (with the rotor cannon that is).


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"[I] still find it funny that the you have to look to Jon Stewart and Rolling Stone to get something close to the truth" - One of my Co-workers

"What I believe is that all clear-minded people should remain two things throughout their lifetimes: Curious and teachable" - Roger Ebert
 

 

Rest in Peace Brother Edwards
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#987
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I have added a Hellblaster squad to my Space Wolves (who share our predilection for getting close to the enemy) and I have been impressed by the results. As long as you have a Captain nearby to hold their hands when they overcharge, their firepower and flexibility is pretty great. The burned down a Hellbrute pretty quickly in my last game.

However I would say that the original Rapid Fire variant is better than either of the other options and also has the advantage of being the cheapest. The assault version is weaker and the difference between S7 and S8 when overcharging is significant if you want to tackle vehicles with them. The Assault version can be fired after advancing but with a -1 to hit when doing so, overcharging is too risky IMHO. The Heavy version is even worse as they really need to stand still. The extra 6" range is negligible as the RF version can simple move 6" and fire without penalty. The RF version also gets to double-tap within 15" which is a big deal.

A 5-man squad costs just 2ppm more than a Company Vet squad with plasma guns. For those 2 points, you get twive the number of wounds and attacks, better leadership and an extra 6" range.

In short, I would always take the RF version of Hellblasters. If you really want a highly mobile squad, then the assault version are OK and have a slight edge in the 16-24" range bracket. I really cannot see the point of the Heavy version though. You would be better off getting a Plasma devastator squad instead IMHO.

The Redemptor looks tasty and I may well splash out on one as I don't have any assault-cannon razorbacks but the Redemptor looks like it can fulfill a similar niche.
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#988
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I have added a Hellblaster squad to my Space Wolves (who share our predilection for getting close to the enemy) and I have been impressed by the results. As long as you have a Captain nearby to hold their hands when they overcharge, their firepower and flexibility is pretty great. The burned down a Hellbrute pretty quickly in my last game.

However I would say that the original Rapid Fire variant is better than either of the other options and also has the advantage of being the cheapest. The assault version is weaker and the difference between S7 and S8 when overcharging is significant if you want to tackle vehicles with them. The Assault version can be fired after advancing but with a -1 to hit when doing so, overcharging is too risky IMHO. The Heavy version is even worse as they really need to stand still. The extra 6" range is negligible as the RF version can simple move 6" and fire without penalty. The RF version also gets to double-tap within 15" which is a big deal.

A 5-man squad costs just 2ppm more than a Company Vet squad with plasma guns. For those 2 points, you get twive the number of wounds and attacks, better leadership and an extra 6" range.

In short, I would always take the RF version of Hellblasters. If you really want a highly mobile squad, then the assault version are OK and have a slight edge in the 16-24" range bracket. I really cannot see the point of the Heavy version though. You would be better off getting a Plasma devastator squad instead IMHO.

The Redemptor looks tasty and I may well splash out on one as I don't have any assault-cannon razorbacks but the Redemptor looks like it can fulfill a similar niche.

RE: Hellblaster squad. Doesn't their plasma have a -4ap versus -3 with regular plasma? Seems like a huge way to basically guarantee that units die.


Edited by Spagunk, 14 August 2017 - 02:25 PM.

The best article I have read in a long time: http://www.alternet....e/132859?page=1
"[I] still find it funny that the you have to look to Jon Stewart and Rolling Stone to get something close to the truth" - One of my Co-workers

"What I believe is that all clear-minded people should remain two things throughout their lifetimes: Curious and teachable" - Roger Ebert
 

 

Rest in Peace Brother Edwards
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#989
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I've used hellblasters, they're very good vs heavy infantry as they have high strength and very good AP. However their damage is only 1 as standard, which means they're only viable vs vehicles if overcharged - overcharging is risky even with a captain nearby vs some enemies (alpha legion, raven guard etc).

They're also high priority as a target in every game I've seen, so don't be surprised if they don't do a lot before getting killed.

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#990
Karhedronuk

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RE: Hellblaster squad. Doesn't their plasma have a -4ap versus -3 with regular plasma? Seems like a huge way to basically guarantee that units die.


I suppose the extra AP is a point in favour of the Heavy Incinerator but plasma cannon Devastators still win out with weight of fire as they will get 4D3 shots per turn vs the fixed 5 of the Hellblasters. I still feel that the greater mobility of the regular Hellblaster squad is better and that their damage potential is still much higher within 15" due to the double tap.

#991
Karhedronuk

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overcharging is risky even with a captain nearby vs some enemies (alpha legion, raven guard etc).


True but the Chapter/Legion Traits only apply to certain units. They do not apply to most vehicles so you can overcharge to your heart's content. Against 1W infantry, overcharging only gets you wounding on a 2+ rather than a 3+ as the extra wound is wasted so it is probably not worth overcharging anyway against them. It is really only Terminators and Bikers that become significantly more durable vs plasma with the -1 to Hit (and other Primaris Marines tongue.png).

They're also high priority as a target in every game I've seen, so don't be surprised if they don't do a lot before getting killed.


The same is true of any high damage output unit, it will scare your opponent into directing a lot of firepower its way. Hellblasters are no better or worse in this regard than a lot of other units. The important thing is to provide your enemy with a range of threats so that he has no way of avoiding all of your heavy firepower.

What I find valuable about Hellblasters is their ability to advance with the main body of the army. This provides some close fire-support for hunting down units that might try to hide out of LOS of more static units like Devastators. It also helps to get them within the 15" double-tap range where they can really unleash some damage.

#992
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In regards to the ETC list and storm bolter+chainsword veterans, I think the format of ETC and opponent selection favours this style heavily. He has great anti infantry with enough big guns to take out key "big units". Either vehicles/Monstrous/knights/whatever.

 

ETC was roughly both team captains selects one of their 8lists, usually a sturdy that does okay/draws against many type of lists. Then both simultaneously reveal the lists. These are the two defenders. Now the opposing captains randomizes two lists and has to reveal both and select one of them to be the attacker. The other list goes back into the pool. They keep going like this until all 8 players have an opponent. This gives a strong tactical element to list building and some players/lists roles might be to just tie (10-10) all games over the event. While for other lists they look to steamroll for max points (20-0). I'm not sure what the role the BA list had, but I find it quite interesting. The delivery method for Mephiston looks a bit weak, but I'll probably play test as I have all the models except for the Psykers.


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#993
Morticon

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In regards to the ETC list and storm bolter+chainsword veterans, I think the format of ETC and opponent selection favours this style heavily. He has great anti infantry with enough big guns to take out key "big units". Either vehicles/Monstrous/knights/whatever.

 

ETC was roughly both team captains selects one of their 8lists, usually a sturdy that does okay/draws against many type of lists. Then both simultaneously reveal the lists. These are the two defenders. Now the opposing captains randomizes two lists and has to reveal both and select one of them to be the attacker. The other list goes back into the pool. They keep going like this until all 8 players have an opponent. This gives a strong tactical element to list building and some players/lists roles might be to just tie (10-10) all games over the event. While for other lists they look to steamroll for max points (20-0). I'm not sure what the role the BA list had, but I find it quite interesting. The delivery method for Mephiston looks a bit weak, but I'll probably play test as I have all the models except for the Psykers.

 

 

Thanks for clarifying! Makes a lot more sense now. 


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#994
Valistan

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In regards to the ETC list and storm bolter+chainsword veterans, I think the format of ETC and opponent selection favours this style heavily. He has great anti infantry with enough big guns to take out key "big units". Either vehicles/Monstrous/knights/whatever.

I want to add a few key points from the video.

1) The main strength of the army is the opportunity to hit from the reserve.

As rule, the alpha strike of the enemy is wasted. Our troops on the table stay in cover and play the role of anvil. 
We inflict the first serious blow in direction unexpected by enemy. Our deep striking units shoot, then charge in melee.

2) Heroes have important strike potential. They allow us to relive the deaths of many troops and win.

3) BA have powerful magic. All powers are very useful. Mephiston is excellent. Inquisitor's psychic power help us to deny enemies overwatch.

4) Opponents are not waiting for close combat. This, together with shooting allows us to cause great damage to the enemy. 

5) The Army is very mobile.

Sorry for my terrible English


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