Dark Imperium and The Dark Angels [PRIMARIS SPOILERS]

[jaxom]

Primaris marines are made from young children taken (kidnapped really) by Cawl during the beginning of the Scouring from Legion homeworlds and recruitment centers and he's been popping them in and out of stasis as he experimented on them for 10,000 years. For example, Guilliman gene-line recruits all came from the 500 Worlds and Russ gene-line recruits all came from Fenris. Most were old enough to remember their 31st millenium era homes to some degree. So the new Primaris Marines of the Lion's gene-line are probably from Caliban. The Primaris Marines fought in mixed gene-line units before being sent to reinforce Chapters or found single gene-line chapters (in order to promote understanding between the different gene-lines in the future). I'm guessing they're accepted into ranks, but will never make Inner Circle and always be watched by the Interrogator-Chaplains and the Librarians. However, there are Primaris Librarians and previously all Librarians were inducted....

[jbaeza94]

Wouldn't this apply to the original primaris only? Because i thought new primaris are going to be made by the chapters as well, meaning they can receive all the psycho indoctrination necessary.

 

Edit: And yes, I can guarantee primaris librarians all be inner circle for the same reason all librarians are, they can read thoughts. They would find out regardless eventually. Maybe the first will be disappeared, but I can't see home grown primaris, especially primaris librarians, being denied inner circle

Edited June 5, 2017 by jbaeza94

[Master Sheol]

At the beginning if the scouring Caliban was already destroyed

[DogWelder]

There is a Dark Angel Primaris called Kalael in the book. He is waxes poetic a lot and very confrontational when it comes to conversations. He also has the ability to make the atmosphere in a room uncomfortable and awkward very quickly. 

 

Basically, I'd say the Lion's geneseed samples that Cawl got doesn't seem to have lost any potency lol 

[Welcheren]

The Lion is strong in this one.   Any chance that the geneseed sets Kalael to work on knitting some robes? One day, I would love to see Primaris models in robes.

 

 

 

 

I have also been wondering about how the Inner Circle will handle the arrival of Primaris Astartes and the new exclusively Primaris Blades of Vengeance.

 

The point about the destruction of Caliban is an important one. Where did Cawl find his test subjects for the implantation of the Lion's geneseed?

 

Might we also expect formation approximating the Deathwing and Ravenwing? Very early to say, I know, but here's hoping.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Welcheren

[Saphrael]

At the beginning if the scouring Caliban was already destroyed

We don't know exactly at what point after the Siege of Terra the destruction of Caliban occurred. Especially given the FW and BL HH stories are still progressing and will continue into the Scouring. 

[Bryan Blaire]

None of the modern Dark Angels are from Caliban and they do just fine. Why would it matter if the recruits for the Primaris DA or Successors came from Caliban?

[Saphrael]

Well, technically none of it 'matters', but it would certainly create some cool opportunities for us to learn more about Calibanite life. The modern DA would love to hear about that and I as a reader would love to have the lacklustre BL HH lore on Caliban revisited (though hopefully not by the same authors of Gathering of Storm).

 

Could also create some interesting foreshadowing of the return of the Lion. Imagine him coming back and Caliban knight-ifying Primaris marines. Would make for some amazing Primaris upgrade kits...

[Welcheren]

Additionally, if Cawl selected some DA Primaris candidates other than Caliban, it might offer a useful nugget for DIY Primaris chapters. 

[FlamingDeth]

I'm pretty sure being from caliban will just be a hamfisted way for the writers to explain modern DA accepting the primaris fully into their ranks. Like, sure, they could show them mentally breaking them and reformatting their brains with psychic power, or they could just have the Lion wake up and go HAY BROS FROM CALIBAN and matter of factly declare them way cooler than the Inner Circle.

[Welcheren]

What are the odds of an exclusively Primaris chapter like the Blades of Vengeance being kept in the dark about the Hunt altogether?

[D3L]

I'm pretty sure being from caliban will just be a hamfisted way for the writers to explain modern DA accepting the primaris fully into their ranks. Like, sure, they could show them mentally breaking them and reformatting their brains with psychic power, or they could just have the Lion wake up and go HAY BROS FROM CALIBAN and matter of factly declare them way cooler than the Inner Circle.

what bros from Caliban?

 

Caliban was destroyed 10 millennia ago

[Saphrael]

what bros from Caliban?

 

Caliban was destroyed 10 millennia ago

Did you... did you read the first post in the thread?

 

Definitely not solid confirmation but it's where the speculation is coming from.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

What are the odds of an exclusively Primaris chapter like the Blades of Vengeance being kept in the dark about the Hunt altogether?

50/50 chance. Depends who got to them first. Guilliman or the DA.

But story wise makes little sense (to me) to have a Unforgiven Sucessor Chapter that is ignorant of the Hunt unless they want them to scooby-doo it.

[Welcheren]

Ditto.

[Kelborn]

I'm tempted to create a Dark Angels Primars chapter, consisting of Caliban born Astartes, which were one of the last generations trained by Luther before his betrayal. Thus, these Astartes still see Luther and the Lion as close brothers and venerate both of them as heroes of the past.

 

Arriving at the Rock are they welcomed by the Inner Circle. Each and every master of these new bred of warriors is consulted by the Inner Circle. While other declare their fealty to the Dark Angels, my leader questions the chapters past.

 

What happened to Caliban? Why are the DAs more secretive than ever before? The Order was known for its mysterious rituals and the likes but this level of secrecy can't mean something good. Someone who acts like the DA do seems to be hiding something.

 

As Azrael and the rest of the Inner Circle can't be sure of their loyalty, they refuse to enlighten him, resulting in him blaming the current DAs.

 

Someone, who can't be honest to his own brothers can't be trusted. The Lion would be ashamed. He sees his Primaris brothers as the true and last sons of Caliban, breaking with the rest of this schemers.

 

After leaving the Rock, does he and his forces resettle on a world which is like Caliban.

 

The Inner Circle, unable to get rid off an entire chapter, decides to keep a very close eye on their newest brothers.

 

Thoughts? Can I make use of this or is it unreasonable?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

So, how exactly does the leader of your Chapter knows enough about the Chapter past to question it, while others don't? Why does he thinks the simple explanation "Caliban was destroyed by chaos forces in a cowardly attack" does not sit well with him? Why does the insularity of the DA Chapter bother him?

How come he is loyal to Caliban if he wasn't even created from Calibanite humans? How does he know so much about the Lion code of honor (or lack thereof) if he never fought with the Primarch?

These are some questions that need answering for the cision to make more sense (to me). But your story holds water and is a good excuse for a DA Gene-seed Primaris, but if you already have a "normal" DA collection you'll find more difficult to justify an alliance on the tabletop.

[Welcheren]

Makes sense to me. As Chaplain Lucifer indicated, a few narrative threads might benefit from closer inspection, but as a working idea, it is certainly feasible. The closing chapters of Angels of Caliban, could offer useful inspiration, if only in terms of the psychology of the Dark Angels on Caliban under Luther (assume, of course, that you have not already read it).

 

I'd love to see your idea fleshed out if you do an IA.

 

I am also curious about how the Lion would react when he returns, and sees such divisions among his sons (assuming that the Lion is set to return).

[Kelborn]

So, how exactly does the leader of your Chapter knows enough about the Chapter past to question it, while others don't? Why does he thinks the simple explanation "Caliban was destroyed by chaos forces in a cowardly attack" does not sit well with him? Why does the insularity of the DA Chapter bother him?

How come he is loyal to Caliban if he wasn't even created from Calibanite humans? How does he know so much about the Lion code of honor (or lack thereof) if he never fought with the Primarch?

These are some questions that need answering for the cision to make more sense (to me). But your story holds water and is a good excuse for a DA Gene-seed Primaris, but if you already have a "normal" DA collection you'll find more difficult to justify an alliance on the tabletop.

 

Thank you for your feedback, guys.

 

Seems like I was a bit in a hurry and forgot to mention some crucial bits. Sorry.

 

The Primaris leader (current name Alther), does not know about the chapters history besides his own experiences on Caliban until his departure. Until then, he experienced both Luther and the Lion as heroes. Valid point regarding why would he not believe them. My idea was that Azrael and others would try to avoid to explain what happens to Caliban. I do see that I have to think about this.

 

It's not their insularity, more their secrecy towards their own brothers (himself). He got the impression that they are hiding something. Especially when he's asking them about Luther and the Lion.

 

Did I make a mistake? He was born on Caliban.

 

The Order was still the ruling institution on Caliban even after being rediscovered by the Imperium. Thus, the Lions and Luthers teachings are still a valid source for recruits. And of course, some deeds turned into legends. Thus, both of them were raised to living saints / legends.

 

Any suggestion of how I could let them break ties with their DA brothers? I just can't imagine that every Primaris is saying Amen to everything they're told by their "normal" brothers, especially the DA ones.

 

*edit*

 

Nope, haven't read Angels of Caliban. Still have to read Angels of Darkness and the entirety of the DA omnibus in order to get a good vibe regarding the character and culture of the DA. Will wait for the German version of AoC. Any other stuff you would recommend? :)

Edited June 19, 2017 by Kelborn

[jbaeza94]

So I'm getting you want non unforgiven da successors?

 

After all, they don't need to be close to the parent chapter. They don't even need to know of the hunt.

 

What happen to Caliban?

Oh,that blew a long time ago in a warp storm and a bunch of people died. All that remains is the rock. Records have been lost or curropted over time.

 

The da are secretive but not dumb. They've been doing this for a long time, I imagine they have a way to explain every single thing anyone could think of. If they were in the order, they should know of circles within circles and that knowledge is a privilege. I don't know why he would find them suspicious without any fallen around.

 

If you really want them to not know the truth, and break away with suspicion, my idea would be accidentally running into fallen. Being from caliban they might recognize the orders heraldry and older power armor. When they ask what gives, that's where the suspicion should happen. Not when they're meeting the parent chapter. They should the go and find their own answers and prosecute their own hunt for the truth, by capturing fallen (ironically) and torturing the truth out of them. How they decide to deal with "the lion was a traitor we were innocent" is up to you.

[Kelborn]

Thank you, jbaeza94.

 

The "accidentally meeting Fallen" idea is close to what popped up in my mind this morning.

I can imagine my Primaris to fight along the DA (as part of the Grey Shields during the Indomitus Crusade) or one of their successors. All of the sudden did the DAs leave their comrades to hunt a Fallen. My Primaris don't know why they were left behind by their brothers, thus confronting the Inner Circle.

 

In doing so, did they get suspicious of all the secrecy and not receiving answers, etc. leading to the split.

 

And I like the irony that they hunt the Fallen in order to reveal the truth. ^^

At first they would face off corrupted ones but maybe they encounter loyal Fallen as well, who might be admitted into the Primaris chapter.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

 

And I like the irony that they hunt the Fallen in order to reveal the truth. ^^

At first they would face off corrupted ones but maybe they encounter loyal Fallen as well, who might be admitted into the Primaris chapter.

But how can you hunt the Fallen if you don't know what you are looking for? ;) I mean, how can they know what they are looking for if they don't have informations on what is going on? Surely the DA don't give away "free info" regarding their misterious disappearences.

[Kelborn]

Maybe by giving them a Fallen member via a former Deathwatch Blackshield?

 

btw.

 

shall I create a separate thread to deal with this theme or is it ok if we stay here?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Maybe create a separate thread since it will give everyone else more freedom to discuss, without getting in the way of this thread Topic.

[gainsay]

I would love to see Primaris models in robes.

 

I am probably a minority but I loath robed marines lol