Tactics and musings for 8th edition

[ERJAK]

Ah, nuts. That's a pain in the arse, but OK. Still makes the Battle Sisters pretty potent; especially stuff like double-tapping heavy bolter squads - 24 shots from a heavy bolter Retributor unit, say.

Don't go heavy bolter with retributors if you plan to pocket an imagifier to them. 95pts for a full HB ret squad(I'm pretty sure) 40points for the imagifier, imagifier increases a units effectiveness by 50% when shooting(basically AoF every other turn) So for 135pts you get 142pts of shooting when you could just take 190points, get 190 points of shooting and have 5 extra bodies, extra zone control, greater target saturation etc.

 

Gotta take MM with imagifiers or it's just not really worth it.

[Beams]

Imagifiers give tactical flexibility in addition to pure fire power, so it would be worth it to get a few, just for the ability to put units where you need them, or to get more antihorde vs antimonster depending on the situation.

[A.T.]

I just watched the Q&A Frankie and Reece put out and they confirm there that AoFs don't work on Vehicles. 18 minutes in. They also said that frankie took a single imagifier for 3 total AoFs and that full mech was how they built.

 

I don't know what it is, but any time I watch a youtube video about Sisters of Battle i'm always thinking "are you reading a different book?"

 

Just little things here and there like repentia being beasts in close combat. But I guess they have to talk it up - pity really, an insight into the creation and testing would have been nice.

Edited June 5, 2017 by A.T.

[micahwc]

Immolator, retributors with multi meltas, superior with combi melta, and an imagifier. Disembark and double fire 10 melta shots. Overkill?

[Servant of Dante]

Yeah, at first I wanted to ignore the video till GW can be bothered to do a real FAQ written by the actual game designers (I'm sorry (not sorry) I'm having a Sisters of Bitter moment) but here's what I just posted in the Imagifier thread

 

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Well, I suppose if these are the people GW are putting forward to answer rules questions, we should maybe listen to them.

 

It's just distinctly un-fun gameplay. Sisters are a mechanized army, usually, so this means that early game we will have minimal use for our 1 defining game mechanic. Business as usual, I suppose.

---

 

And it is kinda a slap in the face. The only unit that really cares about the double move one is Seraphim. Repentia like the free attack one, except theyll never start the turn in close combat. They'll either be dead or the enemy will have backed off because they aren't stupid, and will probably have shot the Repentia to death at that point anyway. The double shots one is nice for HB Retributors, and squads that are on foot, but I'm not sure the 5 Sisters that are left after piling out of a rhino and whethering a round of shooting are worth the points of an Imagifier to shoot one extra time when you could have jut brought 4 more Sisters instead.

 

It is in deed a Sisters of Bitter day, and I'm not sorry -_- (who knows maybe I won't be so upset later)

Edited June 5, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Servant of Dante]

Immolator, retributors with multi meltas, superior with combi melta, and an imagifier. Disembark and double fire 10 melta shots. Overkill?

except you can't do that because AoFs happen at the begining of your turn, before you have a chance to disembark. So no. If you're lucky 1-2 of them will survive till next turn and have a 50/50 shot at double firing before they and your 40 point Imagifier get shot to death.

 

(Alright I'll see myself out before my Sisters of Bitter day collapses into a black hole from which no positivity can escape)

Edited June 5, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Noeh]

We should still be seeing a unique codex for ministorum/imperial agents. We might get relics, abilities, and FoCs that are more useful to us. Who knows yet? Right now 8th looks really bare bones and has tons of room for expansion now that the rules bloat is gone.

[CaptainMarsh]

So a friend started this discussion, wanted your thought: Exorcist or Predator, since we can take both without issue in the same detachment due to the Imperium keyword?

[Beams]

I haven't done the math, but unless your sticking a cannoness behind the exorcist, and even then I think, the predator averages more damage.

 

That said, exorcists are way cooler.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Beams

[ERJAK]

I haven't done the math, but unless your sticking a cannoness behind the exorcist, and even then I think, the predator averages more damage.

 

That said, exorcists are way cooler.

Also Predators are, I believe, slightly squishier and about 45 points more expensive. Honestly, they're pretty comparable.

 

Also against a 3+ save T5-T7 model:

 

LasPred does 1.5 wounds after save for 5.2 damage

 

Exorcist does 1.55 wounds after save for  3.11 damage.

 

Adjusted for points cost the laspred does about 18% more damage but the exorcist has +1 wound and Toughness and a 6++invul

Edited June 6, 2017 by ERJAK

[micahwc]

My turrets can be swapped out at will so I say both or either.

[A.T.]

Adjusted for points cost the laspred does about 18% more damage but the exorcist has +1 wound and Toughness and a 6++invul

 

Approximate wounds against light/medium/hard targets (T6 4+, T7 3+, and T8 2+) :

Exorcist : 3 / 3 / 1

Laspred : 6 / 5 / 4

 

The laspred also does twice as much damage to multi-wound medium infantry (D6 shots at 2 damage vs D6 damage and 4 shots).

 

The exorcist is 20% cheaper, a little tougher against S4, S7, and S8 weapons, and a little more effective against models in heavy cover.

 

------------------------

 

But the damage output for the exorcist just isn't there, at least not relative to the predator. Looking at the Russ though perhaps it's the predator that is undercosted, lascannons in general do seem cheap.

[Gen.Steiner]

See, I use Dominions for melta-work. I like my Retributors giving it large with some ranged dakka, y'know?

I'm thinking that a Rhino-load of Repentia with a priest and a mistress is going to make someone's day pretty bad as a counter-assault unit. Keep them in the backfield ready to respond to threats like deep-striking Inceptors or whatnot.

[Banjulhu]

I suspect our future will be lots of 5 Sister squads to avoid the pit falls of casualties causing more losses through battle shock with elite characters behind them and Celestine anchoring a flank because she is the best HQ we have by a country mile. Add tank to taste and try not to move too much.

[HoboAnarki]

Heavy bolters are just massively improved all round, Str 5 is now the most efficient strength to have as there's nothing currently in the game it can't wound on 5's.

 

For 170 points you can have two squads that are potentially spitting out 48 shots, that's enough to take a chunk off even some of the most heavily armoured vehicles in the game (something like 4 wounds to a land raider with a canoness nearby to reroll 1s to hit).

[A.T.]

Heavy bolters are just massively improved all round, Str 5 is now the most efficient strength to have as there's nothing currently in the game it can't wound on 5's.

 

S6 is the far better strength for light infantry (or S9 for anti-tank).

 

Wounding on 2s rather than 3s is a big jump and while the save mod has helped against marines they are much less effective now firing on lighter troops - like hordes of gaunts or kroot hounds that are going to be on you turn 2 screening their bigger units.

[micahwc]

Allied guard heavy weapons squads will give you 3 heavy bolters for 36 points.

[Noeh]

Allied guard heavy weapons squads will give you 3 heavy bolters for 36 points.

 

Or autocannons for 57! I'm a sucker for autocannons..they were super fun in 7th.

[taikishi]

 

Heavy bolters are just massively improved all round, Str 5 is now the most efficient strength to have as there's nothing currently in the game it can't wound on 5's.

 

S6 is the far better strength for light infantry (or S9 for anti-tank).

 

Wounding on 2s rather than 3s is a big jump and while the save mod has helped against marines they are much less effective now firing on lighter troops - like hordes of gaunts or kroot hounds that are going to be on you turn 2 screening their bigger units.

 

 

S6 may be better than S5 on the low end of the chart, but S5 and 6 are on equal footing on the high end because (currently) nothing has a toughness higher than 8. Also, a lot of those bigger units have more than 9 wounds so can't be screened anyway.

 

Characters that can't be screened:

Magnus

Skarbrand

Bloodthirsters

Fateweaver

Lords of Change

Great Unclean Ones

Keepers of Secrets

Daemon Princes of Chaos

Longstrike

Hive Tyrants

The Swarmlord

Old One Eye

Tervigons

 

Beyond that, if it's not a character (Carnifex, Land Raider, Broadside, etc) it can't be screened if you can draw LoS to it.

[momerathe]

So, how do people feel about blob BSS?

 

Ork/Nid/Guard hordes seems like they're going to be very strong this edition, and basic sisters have seen quite a price drop. 15 sisters with 3 stormbolters put out an admirable amount of dakka for fairly cheap, especially when double-shot using an AoF. 

 

OTOH, you're not going to be able to out-blob the blobs, so maybe we shouldn't try..?

[Beams]

So, how do people feel about blob BSS?

 

Ork/Nid/Guard hordes seems like they're going to be very strong this edition, and basic sisters have seen quite a price drop. 15 sisters with 3 stormbolters put out an admirable amount of dakka for fairly cheap, especially when double-shot using an AoF.

 

OTOH, you're not going to be able to out-blob the blobs, so maybe we shouldn't try..?

Get that squad into cover and nothing going to remove it. They seem great for holding objectives, and forcing people off objectives.

[Servant of Dante]

I enjoy having 1 blob BSS, just because I like putting the models on the table. It won't be as much fun with 15 rather than 20 (that's probably the change that will bother me the most, honestly) but I think that 10 Sisters in a rhino is probably a better investment, even if it's a good bit more expensive.

[Gen.Steiner]

I'm in two minds. I quite like the idea of a blob squad with an Imagifer, maybe a Priest, in attendance, in cover, sat on an objective.

BUT

The theme of the army is mechanised assault/bodyguard, with Rhinos and Immolators and Seraphim overhead to fight alongside and protect their Saint Reborn.

So a 15 strong squad doesn't really fit that. It would be pretty fun though. Maybe if they release plastic SoB...!

[Beams]

I'm thinking a list like this:

Celestine. 250

Seraphim. 110+24(hand flamers)

Penitent Engines (129*3)

Two squads of Storm bolter dominions in a rhino/immolators

 

Should come in just shy of 1000, unless I got my math wrong.

[Banjulhu]

So, how do people feel about blob BSS?

 

Ork/Nid/Guard hordes seems like they're going to be very strong this edition, and basic sisters have seen quite a price drop. 15 sisters with 3 stormbolters put out an admirable amount of dakka for fairly cheap, especially when double-shot using an AoF. 

 

OTOH, you're not going to be able to out-blob the blobs, so maybe we shouldn't try..?

The Orks, Nids and Guard have good tools to help mitigate the effects of the morale rules, Sisters less so.