Valerian Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Starts at 41:38. https://youtu.be/b5S2zno4tL0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 It's very brief, but I figured worth providing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Not sure I agree with their analysis on mobility. Rhinos are basically twice as expensive in 8th, so you won't have many. Land Raiders are still overcosted. They also completely glossed over 'Teleport Strike' and 'Gate', which are huge mobility options for our list. Even with the retarded 'one of each power per psychic phase' restriction of Matched play, you can still 'Gate' a key unit into position (like say a Dreadknight), and Teleport Strike is how our melee units will actually get in range. Regarding the 'Grey Knights are good at every phase of the game', I disagree. Our shooting is devastating to infantry but not much else, and Smite spamming comes with the attendant drawbacks of potential Perils gutting our units for the enemy. Melee we do hit extremely hard, but infinite Overwatch and being able to back out of unfavourable combats means protacted fights only happen if the enemy want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I didn't click on the link, but I did listen to their podcast the other day and I listened to various passages where they discuss Grey Knights specifically, and some of their aspects generally speaking. They both seemed adamant that Grey Knights were very good. The warned about the elite factor leading to small army counts which can get you in trouble (but this is nothing new to us). They both said a few things in particular I found interesting: 1. Paladins are very good. Apothecary + Paladins was very, very good, and they made it sound like anytime you get a chance, take Paladins over regular termies. 2. GK Smite is extremely strong. They said they actually playtested un-moddified Smite in GK lists and found it was way too strong. 3. They said armies in general that can spam Smite are very annoying but they felt it was necessary to curb some exceptionally difficult stuff to kill in the game (an equalizer of sorts). The cited GK as one of these armies, and Tzeentch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soder Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I swear they said drop pods when referring to getting our units up the table, but I'm pretty sure we can't use those! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 I swear they said drop pods when referring to getting our units up the table, but I'm pretty sure we can't use those! They did, and we can't. It's hard to remember everything about everything, though. They playtested every faction in the game over and over again, so I get it if they slip up occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soder Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I swear they said drop pods when referring to getting our units up the table, but I'm pretty sure we can't use those! They did, and we can't. It's hard to remember everything about everything, though. They playtested every faction in the game over and over again, so I get it if they slip up occasionally. Cool, thanks. I do hope what they said about things that looked amazing on paper most often just ended up being ok. Hope the same will be true for things that look "meh" on paper, might actually play better than we expect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 One of the things they mentioned that I think looked amazing on paper (but did not get much attention on the forums) is Force weapons and the GK variants of them. The fact GK never have to 'waste' a power on them and even risk failing is just amazing. That is such a massive force multiplier. I think it turns them up considerably in CC once you start adding in Smite and Hammers, it should all gel together quite nicely. As always numbers will be the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 One of the things they mentioned that I think looked amazing on paper (but did not get much attention on the forums) is Force weapons and the GK variants of them. The fact GK never have to 'waste' a power on them and even risk failing is just amazing. That is such a massive force multiplier. I think it turns them up considerably in CC once you start adding in Smite and Hammers, it should all gel together quite nicely. As always numbers will be the issue. Yeah, they described Grey Knights as a 10 out of 10 on offense, but a 3 out of 10 on defense (since they die just like other Marines). That's why they suggest going mechanized for the mobility, to ensure you can pick your mini-battles on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Yea, I remember that too. Essentially reminding me of Deathwatch but Psych instead of shooting and CC instead of shooting...but always an issue with the numbers. I've always enjoyed armies that play like that. GK will require string tactical play but seem like it will be rewarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 With their comment as 3 out of 10 for defense, do you think that reduces the likelihood of GKs getting Sanctuary as a psychic Power from our codex? Hammerhead and GoI were great blessing powers from 7th edition - along with Sanctuary. We have the first 2 with the stopgap, Sanctuary seems like a staple that would be in our codex. Especially as noted, each model is so much more important to us as an army, that +1 invulnerable to help protect at least one unit of TDA/dreadknight is fluffy/fair for an army who have no access to stormshields bar Draigo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 With their comment as 3 out of 10 for defense, do you think that reduces the likelihood of GKs getting Sanctuary as a psychic Power from our codex? No, not necessarily. I'm not sure how familiar they are with where the codexes are going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myunch Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just give us Storm Shields! Oh wait, those aren't the best wargear the imperium has to offer.... =P I can understand why they may not be a preferred mode of fighting for GK, but I just find it hard to believe that there is only 1 of them in the entire chapter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Th/ss was a valid loadout for our gkt in the daemonhunter dex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just give us Storm Shields! Oh wait, those aren't the best wargear the imperium has to offer.... =P I can understand why they may not be a preferred mode of fighting for GK, but I just find it hard to believe that there is only 1 of them in the entire chapter... We aren't going to get Storm Shields until at least they re-do the Terminator/Paladin kit. Might happen if GK get moved into the Primaris line I guess I guess changes to the Warding Staff was an attempt to address it in the meantime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myunch Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just give us Storm Shields! Oh wait, those aren't the best wargear the imperium has to offer.... =P I can understand why they may not be a preferred mode of fighting for GK, but I just find it hard to believe that there is only 1 of them in the entire chapter... We aren't going to get Storm Shields until at least they re-do the Terminator/Paladin kit. Might happen if GK get moved into the Primaris line I guess I guess changes to the Warding Staff was an attempt to address it in the meantime I totally get why they would give us a 3/10 on defense, our 2+ save doesn't count for much in the thick of it. My biggest frustration has always been the lack of a static defense option (i.e. Storm Shields). We always have the "chance" at becoming stronger defensively, never innately though.... 5++ aren't all that, and I wish the stave gave more than just a CC bonus to invuls... sad face. I was glad, however, to hear that we're a 10/10 on offense. I am curious to see what the shooting loadouts they used though. I find myself hard-pressed to ever take a Psycannon considering the points cost and also with the buff to Stormbolters. I totally agree with them in that movement phase is going to be the most important for us. LOS blocking terrain is our friend for sure =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I hope in the codex we are able to "spam" more powers. GoI and Hammerhand are both great powers but not super useful if you can only cast once. I just got through that part yesterday and I like their positive attitude to GKs. End of the day well always be an elite army which has its drawbacks. They did mention several times LRs are crazy good and tough. From what I've seen they're one of the only vehicles that has a Sv2+. Not even the Baneblade has that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagah Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Was re-reading the Brotherhood Champ entry again last night, the stance that gives +1 to saves in close combat RAW the way it looked to me is to any save not just armoured. Did I miss something, or is The BChamp able to get a 3++ in CC when choosing that stance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 My understanding of invuls is they can't be modified, whether that's for better or worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 My understanding of invuls is they can't be modified, whether that's for better or worse? Is that from the core rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myunch Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 My understanding of invuls is they can't be modified, whether that's for better or worse?Is that from the core rules?The blurb about Invulnerable saves only states that only one type can be taken if a model has more than one invul save and that armor pen cannot modify it. I have to say that reading the Brotherhood Champion entry, I also understood it as a 3++ in CC as it doesn't say armour save or invul save, but saving throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 The Brotherhood champ would definitely get a 3++ (although it probably won't stay a 3++) but he essentially gets a free hammerhand cast it then other ability, so I'd say +1 to wound is better. But for just a handful of points more I'd take an ancient for buff bubbles and more wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I hope in the codex we are able to "spam" more powers. GoI and Hammerhand are both great powers but not super useful if you can only cast once. I just got through that part yesterday and I like their positive attitude to GKs. End of the day well always be an elite army which has its drawbacks. They did mention several times LRs are crazy good and tough. From what I've seen they're one of the only vehicles that has a Sv2+. Not even the Baneblade has that. How would you define "spam"? I'm hoping we get 3 extra powers, and a GK rule that allows 2 of the same psychic power to be "manifested" per turn. The possibility of having 2 of our units with hammerhand/GoI/sanctuary etc. per turn isn't OP but gives utility for our non-character units the chance to use their psykers abilities beyond 6 inch range (smite). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Yeah, they described Grey Knights as a 10 out of 10 on offense, but a 3 out of 10 on defense (since they die just like other Marines). That's why they suggest going mechanized for the mobility, to ensure you can pick your mini-battles on the table. I just don't think mech is viable in 8th. Especially not for our list, when we are so point hungry to begin with. I'm hoping we get 3 extra powers, and a GK rule that allows 2 of the same psychic power to be "manifested" per turn. The possibility of having 2 of our units with hammerhand/GoI/sanctuary etc. per turn isn't OP but gives utility for our non-character units the chance to use their psykers abilities beyond 6 inch range (smite). Matched play completely overrules that anyway. Its one of each power per psychic phase. Given that Teleport Strike and 'Gate' are both fantastic tools (not to mention Warp Shunt on Interceptors), we don't need vehicles to get mobile. I'd say use Smite spam to do spot removal of key threats (ignoring all saves and not requiring a wound roll is huge). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 ^ You don't think the GK codex can have us "modify" that match play rule? TS got an extra psychic cast above their mastery level back towards the end of 7th, and we're as psychically capable as them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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