8th Q - Building Skitarii

[AfroCampbell]

I have a question:

I am building Ad Mech for 8th and am stuck on something - should I build an Omnispex or a Enhanced Data Tether on my Rangers and Vanguard?

 

I was thinking the following 

 

Rangers - Omnispex - allows ignoring of cover bonus - I like this due to the fact that these guys are long range (I am building them with 2x Arquebuses for long range sniping), and therefore will likely not get as banged up as..

 

Vanguard - Enhanced Data Tether - going in closer due to shorter range and also equipped with Plasma Calivers for bang bang dakka, probably going to get shot up more/assaulted and therefore a buff to leadership is likely to be more important...

 

do you agree? disagree?

why?

maybe leadership buff for both?

[MithrilForge]

i always went the other way round...Omnispex is my go to choice...for both unit types.

getting a better (for us)roll on armour saves was my preference

 

Mithril

[Ammonius]

Is this an either/ or question because of points?

I think the Omnispex is the better first choice of wargear for Skitarii because morale can be covered by command points or by having certain units close by.

Of course, only time and hard data will tell.

[CrimsonCorvidae]

My gut feeling would be the Omnispex. I reckon it will cover more scenarios overall, but really it depends on what armies you generally play against. I am not overly familiar with Ad Mech units yet - is there any other way you can get increased Ld added to your unit?

[Magos Takatus]

There is still the Broad Spectrum Data Tether fitted to vehicles by default. It adds +1 to the leadership stat rather than a re-roll though.

[DeStinyFiSh]

There is still the Broad Spectrum Data Tether fitted to vehicles by default. It adds +1 to the leadership stat rather than a re-roll though.

 

Which in generall will save 1 modell, a reroll can make things even worse.

At the moment I would say Omnispex as well, but as Ammonius said, only hard data will tell, so lets wait for the first 8th edition Hard Data Reviews (worth a new topic I think !)

[Subtle Discord]

At least now there's a reason to take the Enhanced Data-tether, since it's Moral re-roll combines well with the +1 Ld provided by the Broad Spectrum Data-tether. I've been struggling with making this selection too. It is a hard call because the Omnispex is an attractive option, but I have to keep reminding myself to think of the options and weapons within the new 8th edition 'ecosystem', not 7th edition. The game is going through such widespread changes, gear and weapon options need to be considered only from this new vantage point.

 

The re-roll can make things worse, but if you've just rolled high on 2D6, the laws of averages leans significantly towards getting the same or an improved result. It will be up to the player to choose a point when to take the re-roll, naturally. If you've just lost by 1 or 2, you can accept the losses, but if the roll just took out 4-6 additional bodies?

 

Having a new Leadership of 7 (with the Alpha) on the Vanguard and Rangers, that is tested if the unit takes even one casualty (if I recall correctly), gives the Enhanced Data-tether some serious utility, if you ask me. Remember, it's +1 to the Moral roll for each casualty in the turn as well (again, if I recall correctly); that can mean a modest 2-3 casualties combined with a bad Moral roll can easily see a squad all-but evaporate. 2 casualties plus a Moral roll of 9 (+2) equals an additional 4 bodies removed - ouch! A single re-roll can mean the difference between all/most of a unit being completely removed from the table (and at the point it can't get any worse) or only taking modest/no additional casualties.

 

Ignoring cover (read: changing a 4+ to hit back to a 3+ to hit) is attractive and useful, but only if the model is still there to take advantage of it. Agreed! Anecdotal conjecture must be quantified with hard data. I've look forward to hearing more about people's actual experiences on the table.

[DeStinyFiSh]

At least now there's a reason to take the Enhanced Data-tether, since it's Moral re-roll combines well with the +1 Ld provided by the Broad Spectrum Data-tether. I've been struggling with making this selection too. It is a hard call because the Omnispex is an attractive option, but I have to keep reminding myself to think of the options and weapons within the new 8th edition 'ecosystem', not 7th edition. The game is going through such widespread changes, gear and weapon options need to be considered only from this new vantage point.

The re-roll can make things worse, but if you've just rolled high on 2D6, the laws of averages leans significantly towards getting the same or an improved result. It will be up to the player to choose a point when to take the re-roll, naturally. If you've just lost by 1 or 2, you can accept the losses, but if the roll just took out 4-6 additional bodies?

Having a new Leadership of 7 (with the Alpha) on the Vanguard and Rangers, that is tested if the unit takes even one casualty (if I recall correctly), gives the Enhanced Data-tether some serious utility, if you ask me. Remember, it's +1 to the Moral roll for each casualty in the turn as well (again, if I recall correctly); that can mean a modest 2-3 casualties combined with a bad Moral roll can easily see a squad all-but evaporate. 2 casualties plus a Moral roll of 9 (+2) equals an additional 4 bodies removed - ouch! A single re-roll can mean the difference between all/most of a unit being completely removed from the table (and at the point it can't get any worse) or only taking modest/no additional casualties.

Ignoring cover (read: changing a 4+ to hit back to a 3+ to hit) is attractive and useful, but only if the model is still there to take advantage of it. Agreed! Anecdotal conjecture must be quantified with hard data. I've look forward to hearing more about people's actual experiences on the table.

2 Corrections here (I am hoping that I am not wrong now ):

Cover is no negative to hit modifier, but +1 to the saving throws.

Moral tests are only with 1d6. So if you have 2 casualties, the maximum you can roll is an 8. Leadership 7 together with a Data Tether (+1, so basically 8) would keep them save.

[Subtle Discord]

Ooohhh... I missed those bits. You see, so many changes that it's hard to keep track of them all, in addition to forcing yourself to not think from a 7th edition perspective. Damn... decisions, decisions.

[Odds.043]

In AOS (which uses the same mechanic), rerolling morale is fairly useful, but it depends on the size of the unit and the value if their leadership. If you have a unit of 5 skitarii, then after losing the 3 minimum you need to have a 1 in 6 chance of losing one person, you would only have 2 models leaft, and if you have a broad spectrum data tether in range you would only have one model leaft, and you will never have a greater than a 50% chance of tpk (which assumes all but one skitarii slain in one turn). so in a unit of 5, you need to weigh the points cost of those last one or two dudes, vs the cost of omnispex.

 

However that is just the minimum unit size, at the max unit size of 10, after your minimum casualties you have 6 and 7 dudes leaft (with broad spectrum and without respectively) before you have a 1 in 6 chance to lose someone (keep in mind all loses are assumed to have been suffered in one turn).

 

Because skitarii morale is so high (because after the morale change, a base 7 with easy access to a +1 is actally pretty amaizing) you would need to lose 6 or 5 skitarii in one turn (with and without broad spectrum) to have a 1 in 6 chance of tpk, and you would need to lose 9 or 8 (with and without) for guaranteed tpk.

 

 

Tldr: By the time you start worrying about morale, you have already lost the majority of your unit in one turn, and thus the unit has lost most of its combat effectiveness, so broad spectrum may not be the best choice vs omnispex.

[Swan-of-War]

Insane Bravery only costs two command points.

[Vel'Cona]

Insane Bravery only costs two command points.

 

It's true.  Though keep in mind you can only use it once per turn in Matched Play.