8th Ed Tactics thread

[H311fi5h]

Then why even have army lists? Just one big book of imperial units. Like I said, our TO said each army book/list required its own detachment but they could interact however with each other depending on the keywords. You can bring Marnius Calgar and a few units of Blood Angels and a few units of IG, but they each require their own detachments which is easy to do in the current system. To do otherwise and we are playing that stupid Unbound style from last edition.

 

You could do that. But Calgar's aura doesn't work on Blood Angels. The Cadian Officer can't order the Catachan infantry. And so on. If you mix too many different things you lose the synergy.

However a few units of Space Marines mixed into an mostly IG list isn't just effective on the battlefield, it's also very fluffy.

[HenricusTyranicus]

 

Then why even have army lists? Just one big book of imperial units. Like I said, our TO said each army book/list required its own detachment but they could interact however with each other depending on the keywords. You can bring Marnius Calgar and a few units of Blood Angels and a few units of IG, but they each require their own detachments which is easy to do in the current system. To do otherwise and we are playing that stupid Unbound style from last edition.

 

You could do that. But Calgar's aura doesn't work on Blood Angels. The Cadian Officer can't order the Catachan infantry. And so on. If you mix too many different things you lose the synergy.

However a few units of Space Marines mixed into an mostly IG list isn't just effective on the battlefield, it's also very fluffy.

 

Eh....most characters have 6 inch auras. Bringing Calgar and not bringing a couple squads of Ultras to buff would be stupid, but so long as you have a couple things to throw in those 6 inch bubbles, you have all the synergy you need.

[Galron]

I was just giving an example and picked the first name that popped into my head. You can replace him with Inquisitor Random or Captain Genericus of the Dark Angels for the same point, they have to be separate detachments though.

[duz_]

As others have said right now there is no penalty to taking an Imperial soup detachment. Which I don't mind, yes you can cherry pick certain units. But whats wrong with the thought of a Guard company holding back a 'Nid infestation when all of a sudden a SM Storm Talon comes in to provide air support while the rest of their force muster for an orbital drop? 

 

Personally I think thats an unfair restriction on your TO's part especially given how short 8th has been out and the fact that detachments are so flexible now you can still "cheese out" if you want. 

 

The buffs are generally quite restrictive, I can't think of many buff that are "Imperium" wide, most are at least at the faction level, if not regiment / chapter. 

[HenricusTyranicus]

I was just giving an example and picked the first name that popped into my head. You can replace him with Inquisitor Random or Captain Genericus of the Dark Angels for the same point, they have to be separate detachments though.

If you're saying that's your TO's houserule, then that's fair. I think it's defensible right now, although as rules get added and 8th gets fleshed out it'll be less so. If you're asserting that's the official rule, that's not the case.

[Brother Captain Ed]

It's not just unfair, it's outright changing the rules. All units in a detachment must share a keyword. <Imperium> is a keyword.

 

There will be greater benefits for using more restrictive keywords as the edition develops. But for now any list can be a Castellans list. You don't have to like it, but it was definitely and unequivocally intentional game design.

[Gen.Steiner]

Absolutely. And it's remarkably background friendly - and indeed game-appropriate; think about the Heresy battle report waaaaay back in WD... 19...5? 192? 188? Mid 1990s anyway.

 

Also means my Space Wolves can use their 3rd/4th Edition Leman Russ Exterminator again.

[Withershadow]

@Galron, before continuing to angrily argue with people, maybe you should re-read the rulebook and the FAQ. You've gotten like 5 rules wrong in two pages.

 

Anyway, Without Mercy seems like a dumb order compared to FRSR. Pistol 2? If you're engaged during your shooting phase, you probably want to disengage rather than take potshots in melee. Will require testing.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Withershadow

[leth]

@Galron, before continuing to angrily argue with people, maybe you should re-read the rulebook and the FAQ. You've gotten like 5 rules wrong in two pages.

 

Anyway, Without Mercy seems like a dumb order compared to FRSR. Pistol 2? If you're engaged during your shooting phase, you probably want to disengage rather than take potshots in melee. Will require testing.

 

It has different situational uses.  With how easy it is to multi-charge/pile ins it is possible to engage 4, 5, even 6 units.  Is it worth having them all fall back?  That is a significant amount of fire power you are losing while also being pushed back and seceding board control.  Sometimes you might want a unit to stay tied up, in that case the order is quite useful.  

[Truesight]

@Galron, before continuing to angrily argue with people, maybe you should re-read the rulebook and the FAQ. You've gotten like 5 rules wrong in two pages.

 

Anyway, Without Mercy seems like a dumb order compared to FRSR. Pistol 2? If you're engaged during your shooting phase, you probably want to disengage rather than take potshots in melee. Will require testing.

Consider that we can use it to shoot into combats other squads are fighting.

Example: Infantry squad stays stuck in with Duty unto Death orders on them, while we order a Grenadier squad to shoot into the combat with hotshots using Without mercy.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Truesight

[Khornestar]

Something very awesome from the new FW book is the Trojan support vehicle, which is a power level 5 dedicated transport with a capacity of 6 and it allows a nearby regiment vehicle to re-roll hits once per turn. Stormhammer (or whatever, Macharius Vulcan will also work nicely) with re-rolled shooting sounds positively glorious.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Has anyone seen the new saber platforms, particularly searchlights? Their absolutely bonkers.

 

It gives a single unit +1 to hit against a single unit.

 

WE TAU NOW BOYZ

[Withershadow]

So no special Rules for Hades, artillery and thud gun? Practically they use the standard guard rules, and infantry and death riders use Krieg orders and rules, Am I right?

Unfortunately no.  It's really strange, since the Hades was a DKoK piece of equipment and they still sell it as a bundle with Engineers, but they cannot use it.

 

Looks like DKoK lost all of their artillery options as well.

 

@Galron, before continuing to angrily argue with people, maybe you should re-read the rulebook and the FAQ. You've gotten like 5 rules wrong in two pages.

 

Anyway, Without Mercy seems like a dumb order compared to FRSR. Pistol 2? If you're engaged during your shooting phase, you probably want to disengage rather than take potshots in melee. Will require testing.

Consider that we can use it to shoot into combats other squads are fighting.

Example: Infantry squad stays stuck in with Duty unto Death orders on them, while we order a Grenadier squad to shoot into the combat with hotshots using Without mercy.

 

This is incorrect, you cannot shoot into a melee you're not engaged in.

[Mitchverr]

Am i right in reading the rules that we dont have twin linked heavy stubber squads in the rules anymore? I thought that they said "rules for all models" didnt they?

 

Or would it fall under "take 2 heavy stubbers points etc, add them up and judge it as potentially balanced"? Need to know if my twin stubber squads are still legal, lol.

 

 

Also, isnt it a bit odd theres no carriage artillery usable? We still can buy the heavy artillery crew from the site, hell, the models were iconic parts of the krieg army for what, 10 years? Again, seems odd.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I think you guys are missing the first page of the DKoK section. They have a list of items they can take and apply the "Death Korps of Krieg" <regiment> type too. The Rapier, Quad, Hades Drill, Heavy Mortar etc etc are all on that list.

 

They also have Heavy Stubbers for HWT but none of those weapons appear to be twin-linked anymore.

[Withershadow]

What all is on that page? Hades drill?

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

What all is on that page? Hades drill?

 

Ok here goes:

 

Master of Ord

Rapier laser dest batt

Hydras

Tank Commander

griffon mortar carrier

hades breaching drill squadron

hellhounds

salamander scout tank

stygies thunderer siege tank

basilisks

armaged pattern medusa

colossus bombard

quad launcher

heavy mortar

 

All these become "Death Korps of Krieg" <regiment> type. Anything NOT on that list is not specifically DKoK; but as you know even other Astra Militarum or Imperium types can be used in tandem.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Withershadow]

Cool, thanks. Still sad that Hades drills only work for regular shmoes, but at least they'll have Cult of Sacrifice.

[Mitchverr]

I personally hope its a mistake on the heavy stubber thing or that they intend people to pay for "2" of them per team given they have 2 guns on the model and theres a specific "1 man stubberman" out there still on sale whom is supposed to be a grenadier, as they did say "all models would have rules", I would suspect the heavy stubber is supposed to still be taken with grenadiers and forgotten to be added(along with their heavy flamer lol) while the twin link was just forgotten.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Mitchverr

[slowclinic]

I am completely missing the entry for the Leman Russ Annihilator? I can see it on both points lists for AM and DKoK, and there is a DKoK Leman Russ that can take twin lascannons... I've been holding onto an unbuilt Russ and spare Lascannon parts just to make one.

[Karinon]

I am completely missing the entry for the Leman Russ Annihilator? I can see it on both points lists for AM and DKoK, and there is a DKoK Leman Russ that can take twin lascannons... I've been holding onto an unbuilt Russ and spare Lascannon parts just to make one.

 

Page 19

[slowclinic]

 

I am completely missing the entry for the Leman Russ Annihilator? I can see it on both points lists for AM and DKoK, and there is a DKoK Leman Russ that can take twin lascannons... I've been holding onto an unbuilt Russ and spare Lascannon parts just to make one.

 

Page 19

 

My bad. Couldn't see any page numbers and the Mars-Alpha threw me off.

[Solar_Pattern]

Well boys guess I'm running conqueror's now instead of regular Battle tanks. Same gun just slightly shorter range on the cheap. Yes Please!!! Now if only I could buy the turret still...

 

Couple of other questions:

 

1 . Am I now unable to run a DKOK Tank Company since there seems to be no Tank Commander?

 

2. Destroyer Tank Hunters. How are they now?

 

3. Coax Weapons now seem to be just another regular cupola weapon with n9 bonuses. Is this a mistake?

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Well boys guess I'm running conqueror's now instead of regular Battle tanks. Same gun just slightly shorter range on the cheap. Yes Please!!! Now if only I could buy the turret still...

 

Couple of other questions:

 

1 . Am I now unable to run a DKOK Tank Company since there seems to be no Tank Commander?

 

2. Destroyer Tank Hunters. How are they now?

 

3. Coax Weapons now seem to be just another regular cupola weapon with n9 bonuses. Is this a mistake?

 

I'm 100% a newbie with IG / DKOK stuff... but.

 

You can take a "DKOK" <regiment> Tank Commander.

 

I don't know what Destroyer tank hunters are... ? ...neither the Valdor or Stygies tank hunter are on the DKOK list fyi.

 

The coax weapons on the DKOK, with certain turret weapons (the Conq Battle cannon and Vanquisher) if you fire at same target the battle cannon can re-roll misses, pretty good.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[major higgins]

 

What all is on that page? Hades drill?

 

Ok here goes:

 

Master of Ord

Rapier laser dest batt

Hydras

Tank Commander

griffon mortar carrier

hades breaching drill squadron

hellhounds

salamander scout tank

stygies thunderer siege tank

basilisks

armaged pattern medusa

colossus bombard

quad launcher

heavy mortar

 

All these become "Death Korps of Krieg" <regiment> type. Anything NOT on that list is not specifically DKoK; but as you know even other Astra Militarum or Imperium types can be used in tandem.

 

 

 

What all is on that page? Hades drill?

 

Ok here goes:

 

Master of Ord

Rapier laser dest batt

Hydras

Tank Commander

griffon mortar carrier

hades breaching drill squadron

hellhounds

salamander scout tank

stygies thunderer siege tank

basilisks

armaged pattern medusa

colossus bombard

quad launcher

heavy mortar

 

All these become "Death Korps of Krieg" <regiment> type. Anything NOT on that list is not specifically DKoK; but as you know even other Astra Militarum or Imperium types can be used in tandem.

 

 

A question, maybe a silly one. Every unit in that list, got the Krieg rule "Cult of Scrifice" or do it simply look like Krieg, but retain standard Astra rules?