Primaris Blood Angels' Geneseed - Dark Imperium Spoilers

[sebs_evo7]

 

 

 

 

Well I'm sure the traitor legions gene seed didn't show any corruption originally either but the individual Marines still got corrupted as we all know.

Well said. As someone that has read at least half of all the Horus Heresy novels out there, the traitor primarchs and their legions did have flaws that helped lube the path to treason and chaos! You can see it when you read so much HH material. Technically those characteristics would still be there in old saved gene seed stock.

 

I don't fault Guilliman's order.

True. But then again as Cawl himself said, even Ultramarines turned traitor and they have the most stable gene seed of all. Corruption can happen anywhere and with anybody (except for Grey Knights d'uh).

Likewise I'm pretty sure that the Blood Angels flaw isn't exactly making them more resilient against the influences of chaos either. It's just pure plot armor that prevents them turning traitor. GW at some point decided they want to keep BA on the loyalist side so it's like that. :D

Ba are loyal because they are the imperiums world eaters. Most of the legions have an opposite. Iron warriors-imperial fists, raven guard-night lords, ultramarines-black legion. It's just so you and i can choose a play style and also either chaos or imperium

[Panzer]

 

 

 

Well I'm sure the traitor legions gene seed didn't show any corruption originally either but the individual Marines still got corrupted as we all know.

Well said. As someone that has read at least half of all the Horus Heresy novels out there, the traitor primarchs and their legions did have flaws that helped lube the path to treason and chaos! You can see it when you read so much HH material. Technically those characteristics would still be there in old saved gene seed stock.

 

I don't fault Guilliman's order.

True. But then again as Cawl himself said, even Ultramarines turned traitor and they have the most stable gene seed of all. Corruption can happen anywhere and with anybody (except for Grey Knights d'uh).

Likewise I'm pretty sure that the Blood Angels flaw isn't exactly making them more resilient against the influences of chaos either. It's just pure plot armor that prevents them turning traitor. GW at some point decided they want to keep BA on the loyalist side so it's like that.

Ba are loyal because they are the imperiums world eaters. Most of the legions have an opposite. Iron warriors-imperial fists, raven guard-night lords, ultramarines-black legion. It's just so you and i can choose a play style and also either chaos or imperium

 

So....as I said, because GW decided they are to stay loyal. ;)

[Sun Reaver]

I just finished the book, solid read but sometimes a bit slow. In terms of the gene seed, I interpreted it as that Cawl did not alter the SW or BA gene seed. He left them as is because that's how the Emperor intended them to be. Thus, I can only conclude that they're very well may be Primaris BA who suffer from the Red Thirst.

 

As far as death company, that would be very interesting to see although I doubt it as before they were sent to join pre-existing chapters or start new ones, the Primaris marines fought in mixed squads of varying gene seeds. They were called the Unnumbered Sons. There is not a single mention of any issue pertaining to the BA marine featured in the novel.

[Xenith]

 

Well I'm sure the traitor legions gene seed didn't show any corruption originally either but the individual Marines still got corrupted as we all know.

 

Well said. As someone that has read at least half of all the Horus Heresy novels out there, the traitor primarchs and their legions did have flaws that helped lube the path to treason and chaos! You can see it when you read so much HH material. Technically those characteristics would still be there in old saved gene seed stock.

 

I don't fault Guilliman's order.

 

 

Nature v Nurture. If some gene seed strains were pre-disposed towards chaos, then all would eventually fall. The fact is that marines trained on Terra or with the Emperor have a tendancy towards loyalty, while those closer to the primarchs tend towards chaos. 

 

We also have the Minotaurs, a very loyal chapter arguably made with Iron Warrior and / or World Eater gene seed. Similarly, we have non-heresy traitor geneseed that commonly becomes traitorous, or very nearly (Iron Hands, Astral Claws, Lamenters, Other Badab Chapters).

 

Current marines also undergo extensive training and hypno indoctrination unlike heresy marines, so the level of turning to chaos is lower. It usually takes some kind of traumatic event, such as the inquisiton ordering exterminatus and the murder of civillians, to break this indoctrination and set them on the path to damnation.

 

Weirdly, how does Guilliman even know about the Thirst? Sangy kept it a secret from almost everyone.

[CaptainHelion]

Given the events of the Signus war, I would find it fairly likely that Sanguinius would feel the need to vent to someone during the whole Imperium Secundus deal, and who else would he share with, but Big Bobby G?

[The_son_of_Dorn]

I for one enjoy this kind of scenario.  An individual has been introduced to try and make the "obvious" happen. Improve on the greatness of existing military forces that are suffering from attrition by making them more stable and by some means superior.

 

I think it's a good thing we are getting this fleshed out to this level as usually this sort of "improvement" or advancement is usually left fluffless or lacking any relative from of context as how we get from point A to point B. If Primaris dna structure is able to allow for the correction of existing geneseed flaws this would be nothing less than a boon. But the main concern would be, how do existing space marines feel about this new form of astartee being placed into production?

 

Almost like Gmans following in his fathers foot steps closer than he would like to admit *cough* Thunder warriors extinction *cough*

[Xenith]

Given the events of the Signus war, I would find it fairly likely that Sanguinius would feel the need to vent to someone during the whole Imperium Secundus deal, and who else would he share with, but Big Bobby G?

 

I disagree.

 

He only told Horus, his closest brother, when the cat was out of the bag. Look how that turned out. Horus exploited his trust and left him to die on Signus.

 

I fully doubt Sanguinius would trust anyone outside the chapter with this secret, especially Roboute "censure the Word Bearers for their failings" Guilliman.

[Panzer]

Also where does it say that Guilliman exactly knows what the BA flaw is? Cawl said something about the BA geneseed being flawed but it's okay because big E apparently wanted it to be like that. I don't think they actually talked about the Red Thirst specifically or even know what it is in detail.

[Calistarius]

The Ultramarines have spent significant time around the Blood Angels in theater on numerous campaigns.  I think they would consider one another to be closest allies outside of successor chapters.  Perhaps its been recorded in their chapter history that they've seen signs of the Thirst, but don't know about it in detail.  It has even been detected among members of the Deathwatch (who willingly turn a blind eye out of respect for the chapter's nobility).  Who's to say Guilliman hasn't put it together on his own with given evidence from the Heresy and chapter records?  He is supposed to be some sort of genius after all..

[Karhedron]

Weirdly, how does Guilliman even know about the Thirst? Sangy kept it a secret from almost everyone.

In the HH novels, Sanguinius has kept it secret thus far but we are still a way from the Siege of Terra so he may confide in Roboute yet.

 

Alternatively, RG may learn about the flaw after Sanguinius's death. 7 of the Loyalist Legions still had their Primarchs after the end of Heresy to help them rebuild. The Iron Hands had already adapted to the loss of Ferrus. The BAs were still on Terra and RG may have taken a hand in helping them rebuild. With half the HH still so to be told, a Century of warfare after that and then 112 years since his resurrection, we don't know how much RG is aware of at this point.

[Arkangilos]

Plus Cawl literally has been breaking their geneseed apart, and it's much more prevailant now than it was during the GC.

[Arkangilos]

Although, I wonder if the Primaris with the Indomitus Crusade are feeling it since they haven't been exposed to the ritual yet

 

When Sanguinius was alive the thirst wasn't wide spread and was relatively rare.

[Sun Reaver]

To clarify, did Cawl remove the "flaws" from the BA and SW gene seeds or not? When I read it, I processed it as he kept the flaws in there because the Emperor wanted them to be like that. Some of you are saying that the flaws were fixed. Which one is it?

[Panzer]

Plus Cawl literally has been breaking their geneseed apart, and it's much more prevailant now than it was during the GC.

Yeah, I mean the Knights of Blood background is even that Mars tried to create a BA successor chapter without the flaw and for a while it looked like they succeeded before it came back even worse than before. To actually try something like that they kinda have to know about it in the first place. :D

[Calistarius]

I'm sure most of you have seen this, but as someone who hasn't read the story yet I found this pretty insightful in regards to how the Primaris behave without contact with their gene-seed brethren.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334469-imperium-of-darkness-sw-and-primaris-fluff/

[appiah4]

Primaris Marines from Traitor Legions is just a setup for those chapters mass-converting to Chaos because of some stupid Chaos Sorcery some Chaos Character will enact in some summer campaign, right before the Chaos Primaris line launch.

 

I mean, it's so obvious.

 

And so terrible.

 

The storytelling in Dark Imperium so far is a whole level of terrible compared to the rest of the Black Library, and the Black Library itself is mostly shameful all by itself.

 

Cawl has made PRIMARIS marines with TRAITOR geneseed and NOBODY noticed, cared or objected?  What in the :cuss?

[Arkangilos]

Uh, did you forget to read the part where he did not actually make them and actually asked Guilliman for permission, and Guilliman told him no? Very forcefully?

 

What is it with you all? It's like you feel you have to outright lie and spread misinformation to make yourselves feel better about yourself.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Arkangilos

[appiah4]

Uh, did you forget to read the part where he did not actually make them and actually asked Guilliman for permission, and Guilliman told him no? Very forcefully?

 

What is it with you all? It's like you feel you have to outright lie and spread misinformation to make yourselves feel better about yourself.

 

He DID tell Guilliman that he DID make them, and they showed no signs of corruption; he only said they weren't COMPLETE.  He asked for permission to complete and deploy them.  He never asked permission to make them.  He had already made them.

 

I missed nothing, but you apparently missed the part about Guilliman musing about not trusting Cawl to abide his orders, which is Creative Writing 101 level of foreshadowing - it's on par with Hollywood movie handholding.

Edited June 12, 2017 by appiah5

[Arkangilos]

Right, he experimented with them, but didn't produce them. Guilliman had an issue with it when he found out. So your bull :cuss comment "No one cared" is clearly bull :cuss. It's not like there were many people to care considering this was a surprise to almost everyone. And then when the person who had a say in it found out he did care, and he said no. So yeah, it's you who wasn't paying attention. Tell me again how no one had an issue with Cawl putting them into development? Edited June 12, 2017 by Arkangilos

[appiah4]

Right, he experimented with them, but didn't produce them. Guilliman had an issue with it when he found out. So your bull comment "No one cared" is clearly bull . It's not like there were many people to care considering this was a surprise to almost everyone. And then when the person who had a say in it found out he did care, and he said no. So yeah, it's you who wasn't paying attention. Tell me again how no one had an issue with Cawl putting them into development?

 

He produced them, read the quote below.

 

 

 

‘Furthermore, he has continued experimental implantation and monitoring of the thus-far unused gene-seed in experimental test subjects. That of the Second, Third, Fourth, Eighth, Eleventh, Twelfth, Fourteenth, Fifteenth, Sixteenth, Seventeenth and Twentieth Legions all show no sign of degradation or incidence of unwelcome tendencies within the recipients. All is well, my lord, Archmagos Belisarius Cawl reassures you. He is so satisfied that I am instructed to repeat his request that those gene-lines be put into full production and be allowed to serve the Imperium as the Emperor intended.’

‘No,’ said Guilliman firmly. ‘I cannot allow it.’ 

 

Then apologize to me for calling me a liar.  Do not respond to me again before you do that. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by appiah5

[Indefragable]

 

Weirdly, how does Guilliman even know about the Thirst? Sangy kept it a secret from almost everyone.

In the HH novels, Sanguinius has kept it secret thus far but we are still a way from the Siege of Terra so he may confide in Roboute yet.

 

Alternatively, RG may learn about the flaw after Sanguinius's death. 7 of the Loyalist Legions still had their Primarchs after the end of Heresy to help them rebuild. The Iron Hands had already adapted to the loss of Ferrus. The BAs were still on Terra and RG may have taken a hand in helping them rebuild. With half the HH still so to be told, a Century of warfare after that and then 112 years since his resurrection, we don't know how much RG is aware of at this point.

Dorn and Khan would know about it if anyone, I think.

 

My suspicion is that when Sanguinius gets killed by Horus, it causes every living Blood Angel to basically pass out: with some disastrous effects as the Siege is in its precarious final moments. But then when they start "rebooting" they go "full psycho" as almost an entire Legion and lay a hurtin' on the forces that serves as the centerpiece of what will become the Scouring.

 

So of course when Dorn and Khan are panting after the battle, with the Emperor installed in the Golden Throne, they look over at Raldoran and Azkaellon who have the truth-serum-effect of grief as they pack up Sanguinius's body, and ask "golly gee was that?" And Rald and Azk let the secret out, b/c to them there's nothing more to hide at that point. And Dorn and Khan are like "oh snap." Then RG, Lion, and Russ arrive on Terra and get the memo about the whole "tip toe around the BA" thing and they all agree to keep it quiet, especially given their respect and admiration for Sanguinius, most especially his-ditch attack on Horus himself.

 

Azkaellon becomes the golden doom of the traitors turning his guilt and despair into an intense fury (even by 40k standards of rage) unseen by the Imperium. Amit, on the other hand, becomes the shield that will never break that humanity can rely on. Raldoran stays the even-keeled, quiet bad- :cuss he always has been and is the cornerstone the Sons of Sanguinius can rely on above all else.

 

#notaleak #speculation #Mondaymorningdaydreaming

[Frater Cornelius]

Why do they all try to attribute corruption with physiological traits? The path to Chaos starts with the soul and temptation. The purest is just as affected as the most broken. It is a spiritual war, not a physiological one.

 

As for minimizing but not eliminating the flaws, that sounds pretty interesting. You can basically go both ways. Cursed or ascended (carrier, but no symptoms). Loads more to think about :)

[Arkangilos]

 

 

Right, he experimented with them, but didn't produce them. Guilliman had an issue with it when he found out. So your bull comment "No one cared" is clearly bull . It's not like there were many people to care considering this was a surprise to almost everyone. And then when the person who had a say in it found out he did care, and he said no. So yeah, it's you who wasn't paying attention. Tell me again how no one had an issue with Cawl putting them into development?

He produced them, read the quote below.

‘Furthermore, he has continued experimental implantation and monitoring of the thus-far unused gene-seed in experimental test subjects. That of the Second, Third, Fourth, Eighth, Eleventh, Twelfth, Fourteenth, Fifteenth, Sixteenth, Seventeenth and Twentieth Legions all show no sign of degradation or incidence of unwelcome tendencies within the recipients. All is well, my lord, Archmagos Belisarius Cawl reassures you. He is so satisfied that I am instructed to repeat his request that those gene-lines be put into full production and be allowed to serve the Imperium as the Emperor intended.’

‘No,’ said Guilliman firmly. ‘I cannot allow it.’

Then apologize to me for calling me a liar. Do not respond to me again before you do that.

Read it again, "expiremental implantation" "the thus unused" "request that those gene-lines be put into full production"

 

It doesn't sound to me like they are being produced, it sounds to me that they are nothing more than experiments *waiting* for the ok for production. I mean, did you actually read that?

Edited June 12, 2017 by Arkangilos

[Jolemai]

#keepitcivilplease

[Blindhamster]

Have to admit, I read it as *some* primaris using traitor and expunged gene seed existed and were performing as desired, but very very small numbers purely for testing.