Maybe characters not having SIA is better after all?

[Irbis]

In 7th edition, all characters with SIA had 5 pts tax, and due to writer incompetence, had no deduction for equipment that took it away. So, you either had to take bolt pistol, or accept your plasma pistol (modelled on most of captains/chaplains) is 20 pts.

 

In 8th, however, such deduction is impossible thanks to global gear prices (one of few dumb things in 8th edition). So, when I was pondering what to arm the ICs with, I came to conclusion - maybe it's better there is no tax anymore? You don't need SIA so much seeing plasma pistols are great now (especially seeing captains reroll 1s though overheating is risky on such pricy model), cost about same as SIA 'tax', and keep 12 inch range for deep strike goodness.

 

Captain with plasma/phase blade (or, if you want to go that route, 2x lightning claw to make him melee beast, something which also looks pretty viable now) doesn't really need SIA , ditto for chaplain/librarian who also can use cheap plasma pistol - really, the only build that could use SIA is one with combi-gun, but I feel you're still better off spending the tax points somewhere else and only firing the combi- part for extra accuracy.

 

Meanwhile, the only two DW HQs that could use SIA effectively, Artemis and Watch Master, have it, so that's a wash.

 

Thoughts?

[leth]

I think its annoying that we have a 3 point tax built into our veterans for SIA which makes swapping weapons an annoyance.  However that being said I think that having SIA is worth it for characters as the loss of bonus attacks for having two weapons AND being able to charge after firing makes having a bolter on a 2+ to hit platform quite potent.  The main problem is our artificial limitations on wargear that is just annoying and pointless.

 

Remember captains can get a Master Crafted Boltgun and so having damage two with SIA is pretty huge

[Irbis]

I think its annoying that we have a 3 point tax built into our veterans for SIA which makes swapping weapons an annoyance.  However that being said I think that having SIA is worth it for characters as the loss of bonus attacks for having two weapons AND being able to charge after firing makes having a bolter on a 2+ to hit platform quite potent.  The main problem is our artificial limitations on wargear that is just annoying and pointless.

 

Remember captains can get a Master Crafted Boltgun and so having damage two with SIA is pretty huge

 

See, I don't think SIA is anywhere near as potent as plasma weapons, and being able to take iconic SM/DW officer weapons without thinking about point waste (also, two claws still give +1 attack while allowing the captain to re-roll all hits/wounds) is nice bonus.

 

Good point about master crafted boltgun, but I think it's completely new weapon according to GW rules. Not it not only has D2, but also AP bonus making me feel you won't get permission to use it with SIA even if a character can take both somehow. I might be wrong here, but cynically speaking, current DW writers simply don't follow normal logic and nerf combos where possible.

[Prot]

Characters do have SIA access. They just wrote it poorly.... surprise.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Prot

[leth]

O yes, it is not as potent as plasma weapons however for most characters it is free and most importantly it is versatile.  In my SIA thread I posted where it is useful and you can see situations where it will be better than plasma, especially if invul saves are involved

[Irbis]

O yes, it is not as potent as plasma weapons however for most characters it is free and most importantly it is versatile.  In my SIA thread I posted where it is useful and you can see situations where it will be better than plasma, especially if invul saves are involved

 

Being free is all nice and well if it was actually anywhere in the rules, but even in such a case, I'd absolutely take any hard hitting pistol (or claws) to use that 2+ to hit over bolt pistol. You take characters to deal damage, you want to use their statline not waste cost of whole squad to output 1-2 S4 hits.

 

Ditto for being better, I can't think of any case besides maybe extra range but you will drop characters on pack or drive them where they need to be so no, I don't think there is even one situation where any SIA mode would beat plasma/grav...

[Moostick]

I'm kind of confused at why this is even in question. Why would, or even should, SIA be better than things like plasma/grav/melta? These are things we're spending even more extra points on, they better be better!

[Irbis]

Because the reply above mine suggested that there are cases when SIA beats plasma/grav. I was just puzzled what cases since I can't think of any.

 

And yeah, your suggestion (SIA being 3 pts wargear, or 3 pts bolters with SIA) works too, this thread was just me pointing out for once incompetence of rule writer was to a benefit of DW players, namely slightly cheaper characters if you do give them fluffy, iconic officer loadout.

[Moostick]

Didn't mean to single anyone out on the matter.

 

No arguments on the writers and editors being terrible. I'm not as nice as Vel, and I'm going to scrutinize them for every mistake as I would any professional product. An unpaid intern doing a read through of the entire document would have easily caught more than half these issues we're finding.

[Vel'Cona]

 

I'm not as nice as Vel

 

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[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

To me, it's a matter of consistency rather than a balance issue. Special Ammo is basically standard issue equipment given to the Deathwatch. Save for some exceptions here and there, I see no reason why they can't get the ammo at all. And that's what makes me fussy about them not having it on the Datasheet even though they should.