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The 8th Edition Learning Curve with Astra Militarum


Rob40k

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Hi all, 

 

So, 8th edition 40k is here! I've had a chance to look through some of the indexes and Astra Militarum has really taken my fancy, I think they're a really flexible force and with lots of fire power, I'm sure they will be a force I will enjoy! AM have taken my fancy so much, I've gone out and bought a whole force! 

 

With a tournament on the 15th of July, I'm furiously building my new force, I'm aiming for 2000pts, but with a rulespack pending, things could change! 

 

The aim of this thread is to document the learning curve as I get to grips with a new force in preparation for tournament play! Nothing like jumping in at the very deep end! But I'm sure it will be very fun! 

 

I have a practice game planned tomorrow vs Daemons, it will be a 1000pt game to keep things fairly simple as I build towards 2000pts 

 

Without further delay, here is the 1000pt list:

 

Vanguard Detachment:

HQ1: Creed = 70 (Warlord)

HQ2: Tempestor Prime: Command Rod = 60

Elite1: Tempestus Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns = 64

Elite2: Command Squad: 4 Meltaguns = 72

Elite3: Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns = 52

Elite4: Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns = 52

Elite5: Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns = 52

Elite6: Commissar: Bolt Pistol, Power Maul = 35

Transport1: Chimera: 2 Heavy Flamers = 109

Transport2: Chimera: 2 Heavy Flamers = 109

Troop1: 30x Conscripts = 90

Troop2: Tempestor Scion Squad: 2 Plasmaguns, Plasma Pistol, 2 Hotshot Lasgun = 66

Heavy1: Manticore: Heavy Bolter = 132

Heavy2: Heavy Weapons Team: 3 Heavy Bolters = 36

Total: 999

 

I've tried to take a look at a lot of the elements of the 2000pt list I'm looking at, which has more deep striking options, more command squads in a Chimera and some more long range fire power. But, that list is for another day, Ive not played a single game yet. So its all theory for now. 

 

This list has 6 Command Pts, Creed being my Warlord, brings 2 additional Command Points which is awesome, along with his 3 Orders per turn is the main reason to take him, with lots of Plasma, Overcharging is great, so re rolling 1's reduces the risk of them blowing themselves up! 

 

The deep striking Tempestus stuff are the scalpel of the army, looking to deep strike down when the opportunity arises to wreck something valuable to the enemy army. 

 

The Conscripts will be used to bubble wrap and prevent first turn or early game charges against my forces, if they survive, they then become great at grabbing my "home" objective through weight of numbers. 

 

Meltaguns and the Manticore are my anti-tough things, Plasma is good at killing most things while the Heavy Bolters and Heavy Flamers are there to clear away the enemy chaff units. 

 

On paper and in my head. This list works, but we will all find out tomorrow! 

 

Thanks for reading and I hope you enjoy the journey! 

 

If you have any comments or questions! Post up! We can learn together! :) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Welcome to the Guard Rob :tu: I think your list is a good start, but with so many command squads I wonder if you're putting toys before boys? At 1000pts might be ok but it'd probably be a good idea to look at adding a few more squads at larger points, cheap infantry squads could do that nicely.

 

What colour scheme are you going with? As you're using Creed I'm assuming you're going Cadian in some form?

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Welcome to the Guard Rob :thumbsup: I think your list is a good start, but with so many command squads I wonder if you're putting toys before boys? At 1000pts might be ok but it'd probably be a good idea to look at adding a few more squads at larger points, cheap infantry squads could do that nicely.

 

What colour scheme are you going with? As you're using Creed I'm assuming you're going Cadian in some form?

 

Cheers Warriorfish!! :) 

 

My reasoning for Command Squads is that you can fit multiple units in transports now, 8 Plasmaguns are 104 pts, while a Veteran squad with Heavy Flamer and 3 Plasmaguns are 98pts. Its double the fire power for 6pts and the loss of 2 models. :) 

 

Infantry squads are okay. But hitting on a 4+ seems poor in terms of damage output. I have Conscripts for a shield. In theory they should soak up the first charge then my counter assault begins! 

 

At the moment, they're a horrid shade of unpainted plastic. 

 

I've not settled on a colour scheme yet, but Cadia is the regiment I'm going for. 

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You're in the right place for a WIP topic, there are plenty of Cadian colour schemes to choose from too :tu: Don't forget to keep us updated on your battles too, all field experience is vital in the opening of a new edition never mind one with such different rules!

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Looks like a solid list on the whole. Perhaps a touch of the glass cannon to it, I agree that more bodies would be handy. Especially for contesting objectives. If you're opponent isn't crippled on turn two and nigh on tabled by turn 4 or 5, you're probably not gonna win. On the other hand, you'll carve through a lot of stuff with the power you're packing, so it may be okay. 

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Look foward to seeing how guard do in the tornament, we weren't very competitive in 7th :lol:

Can't really comment on the list too much as I haven't had a game of 8th yet but from what I've seen it does look like a scary list.

If you need help on the colour scheme don't hesitate to post pictures and ask- everyone here would love to help a fellow guardsmen out :)

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So you have a lot of infantry with firepower but not much transport. If you face a footslogging close combat oriented army such as demons with kill points kind of mission you might pull it off nicely. But if you play objective missions and need to move around and grab objectives you might consider more than two transport vehicles.

 

Also an Aegis defense line would suit you well if you rather play a more static infantry heavy list such as that one.

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You're in the right place for a WIP topic, there are plenty of Cadian colour schemes to choose from too :thumbsup: Don't forget to keep us updated on your battles too, all field experience is vital in the opening of a new edition never mind one with such different rules!

 

Oh yes, I'm not sure how Im going to paint them yet, the models I'm using are the Mantic Plague from there Warpath range. They're very reasonably priced on Ebay. 

 

For sure, my aim is to report on every battle I play! So we can all learn from the many many mistakes I will be doing! haha. 

 

Looks like a solid list on the whole. Perhaps a touch of the glass cannon to it, I agree that more bodies would be handy. Especially for contesting objectives. If you're opponent isn't crippled on turn two and nigh on tabled by turn 4 or 5, you're probably not gonna win. On the other hand, you'll carve through a lot of stuff with the power you're packing, so it may be okay. 

 

I agree dude, very glass hammer, the Command Squads are small, but back a mean punch! The only way to see if the list works or not is field testing, I'm looking forward to play testing as much as possible! 

 

Look foward to seeing how guard do in the tornament, we weren't very competitive in 7th :laugh.:

Can't really comment on the list too much as I haven't had a game of 8th yet but from what I've seen it does look like a scary list.

If you need help on the colour scheme don't hesitate to post pictures and ask- everyone here would love to help a fellow guardsmen out :smile.:

 

I'm all interested, on paper, I really like AM, we have a lot of options now that didn't look viable before. 

 

Cheers dude, I will be sure to post up if I have any painting questions! :)

 

So you have a lot of infantry with firepower but not much transport. If you face a footslogging close combat oriented army such as demons with kill points kind of mission you might pull it off nicely. But if you play objective missions and need to move around and grab objectives you might consider more than two transport vehicles.

 

Also an Aegis defense line would suit you well if you rather play a more static infantry heavy list such as that one.

 

2 Transports at 1000pts didn't seem to bad to me, Chimeras are expensive and I wanted more special weapons. The Tempestus units deep strike around the table nicely! 

 

An Aegis is a great idea! Hmm, Conscripts behind an Aegis Defence Line could be really annoying to remove! Hmm. 

 

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? 

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With luck, move move move can replace transports. 12+2d6 outpaces any non valk in it's capacity to get around. Of course, you'll have to have an officer in the critical location. Plus that deepstrike, you'll be good on that front.

 

Now if I were going to put conscripts behind an Aegis defense line, I'd feel obliged to include a Primaris Psyker to increase their armor save by one. And then I'd laugh uncontrollably at my 3+ armor save horde. The downside, of course, is that no one would go near this horde and it would just sit there. But that can be an upside too. 

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HenricusTyranicus move move move is brilliant. Will be great for those last turn objective runs! I think it will be a under rated order.

 

That's an even better idea! Hmm now how to cram that combo into my list! Haha.

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With luck, move move move can replace transports. 12+2d6 outpaces any non valk in it's capacity to get around. Of course, you'll have to have an officer in the critical location. Plus that deepstrike, you'll be good on that front.

 

Now if I were going to put conscripts behind an Aegis defense line, I'd feel obliged to include a Primaris Psyker to increase their armor save by one. And then I'd laugh uncontrollably at my 3+ armor save horde. The downside, of course, is that no one would go near this horde and it would just sit there. But that can be an upside too. 

 

Conscripts look hilariously good if you invest in a couple of characters to go with them. 

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So guys, here is the battle report for my first game of 8th edition!!

 

We agreed to play a 1000pt game as this would be our first games of 8th edition and my first game with Astra Militarum!!!

 

To run through my list again:

 

Vanguard Detachment:

HQ1: Creed = 70 (Warlord)

HQ2: Tempestor Prime: Command Rod = 60

Elite1: Tempestus Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns = 64

Elite2: Command Squad: 4 Meltaguns = 72

Elite3: Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns = 52

Elite4: Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns = 52

Elite5: Command Squad: 4 Plasmaguns = 52

Elite6: Commissar: Bolt Pistol, Power Maul = 35

Transport1: Chimera: 2 Heavy Flamers = 109

Transport2: Chimera: 2 Heavy Flamers = 109

Troop1: 30x Conscripts = 90

Troop2: Tempestor Scion Squad: 2 Plasmaguns, Plasma Pistol, 2 Hotshot Lasgun = 66

Heavy1: Manticore: Heavy Bolter = 132

Heavy2: Heavy Weapons Team: 3 Heavy Bolters = 36

Total: 999

 

My opponents list:

Batallion Detachment:

Lord of Change

Khorne Herald on Juggernaut

Tzeentch Herald on Disc

3x10 Brimstone Horrors

1x15 Flesh Hounds

100 reserve points

 

PREGAME:

Looking at my opponents list I was worried about a few things, 1 the Lord of Change, this guy moves quick, a lot of wounds, a 30” Smite range, that can charge, fall back and thanks to fly, charge something else! Brutal!

 

Secondly, I was really worried about the Flesh Hounds, this large unit with tons of wounds will hit really really hard when/if it charges! I  doubt I can stop it. Backed up by the Khorne Herald which gives them +1 strength. Nasty!

 

The reserve points are annoying, being able to ”summon” units onto the table means objectives are not secure and the unit(s) summoned can act as a secondary wave charging into my lines!

 

DEPLOYMENT:

I lost the roll for objectives, so got to pick deployment zones, we rolled the Front Line Assault deployment zone and I chose the side that could fully hide my Manticore from being Smited to death!

 

 http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/RobEdwards1986/20170617_074454_zpsokzbyggv.jpg[/img]

 

 

As you can see, we alternated deploying units, one fun fact is that “deploying” into reserve with deep striking units means you can basically see where your opponent deploys, then react, I think it’s a good way to counter act the deploying 1 unit at a time and gives me an advantage over those armies that cannot do  it. As I can react with my whole army to their deployment while they’re deploying and not being able to see what I’m going to do.

 

In the end I deployed with the 2 Chimeras full of command squads at the back, they were wrapped up by conscripts, Commissar deployed within 6” of them. On my right flank when the Manticore and Heavy Bolter squads. With the Tempestus stuff in deep strike reserve.

 

My opponent deployed with the flesh hounds out front with the characters behind, then, to my surprise, he used the Brimestones as an anti- deep strike/area denial bubble, this would stop me largely deep striking around his characters and nuking them. – Something to watch out for in future games!

 

Turn1:

As my opponent had less units, so had choice for turn1, he obviously wanted first, I didn’t seize, I also burnt a command point in the process.

DAEMON TURN1:

My opponent moved and advanced with pretty much everything, no psychic powers went off!

 

AM TURN1:

I was pretty much boxed in, deploying out of first turn charge range meant I was right up against the board edge, so had nowhere to go, as I’d blocked the Chimeras in with the Conscript screen! all I could do was jump out Creed to cast First Rank Second Rank on the 30 conscripts.

 

Which is what I did, all the shooting from my army caused 2 dead Hounds and 3 wounds on the Lord of change. Not a great deal of damage done!!??

 

DAEMON TURN2:

My opponents army reached my lines largely intact! So he set about making sure units were getting good charges, so the Lord of Change jumped over the Hounds, then with some clever movements, was able to engineer a gap for the Khorne Herald to squeeze through the Hound Screen, so he would be charging into the Conscripts as well.

 

When all was said and done, just 3 conscripts survived, but they had done their job!! Sorry guys, I don’t think many of you will ever make it home!!!

 

AM TURN2:

Daemons are now all over me, but, because the screening Conscripts are 4.1” away from the Chimeras and Creed, they cannot consolidate into them to lock them in combat. I set about deploying the 4 Command Squads from the Chimeras, the Melta squad moved so that the Khorne Herald was the closest model, the 3 Plasma squads set up in rapid fire range of the lord of change or the hounds. The deep striking squads then landed in rapid fire range of the Lord of Change or Hounds.

 

My shooting phase was in short, devastating, overcharged Plasma was devastating! Creed and the Prime issued the re-roll 1’s to hit orders, I still lost 1 or 2 guys, but it made the shooting very accurate. When the dust had settled only the Brimestones were left!! The Melta vets deleted the Khorne Herald, 2 Plasma Squads and the Manticore finished the Lord of Change, then the rest of my forces shooting finished off the Hounds. Devastating!!

 

Daemon Turn3 and the rest of the game.

 

The game was done, bar the mopping up, which did take until turn5 before the last Brimstone perished! But I won’t bore you with the details of Chimeras and Vet squads running across the table.

 

GAME SUMMARY:

Overall, I think I played pretty solid, a few mistakes, like blocking in the Chimera with the Conscript screen, not that my opponent could capitalise on it.

 

Overcharged Plasma seems borderline OP, 2 damage is amazing. Each wound deleted a Hound!

 

Melta is still needed, so you cannot go all Plasma IMO. Melta is needed when you need something dead and you only have one unit, these are the guns to do it!

 

Conscripts were brilliant, a great screening unit, easily killed, but, that’s their job, to line up at the front and take the first charge to the face, then my army can counter attack from there!

 

I loved the game mechanics, 8th is going to be a blast, stuff dies quick, games will be quick and bloody!

 

I hope you enjoyed the read, next weekend is Eldar and potentially a Harlequin game after (my opponent is looking to try both! – I’m more than happy to be the punching bag!) 

Edited by WarriorFish
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Guard don't MSU well IMO I think that you would do better by getting more boots on the ground especially some heavy weapon teams and standard guard squads. Especially against elder he is more than likely going to turn your command squads into mince meat. Even more so with Harlequins.

 

Krash

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Interesting. Lots of plasma. Completely different army to the way I'd build a Guard force - seems effective, too. You might have difficulty against shooty armies or hordes (like Orks or 'Nids), but then again... lots of plasma!

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I have found the Deep Strike mechanic to be brutal this edition. We will definitely be playing a game of dare with our shooty DS units. I played a game this past weekend where a Grey Knight player thought he was being slick and dropped Drago, another named character and some paladins behind an ally's necron and lord putting the lord as the closest model(something else learned, don't put your characters behind your units, bubble wrap them inside of units.) He then proceeded to shoot the lord almost to death and got one charge off to finish him. I had held a terminator squad in deep strike anticipating this and combined with my lord and a chosen squad in a rhino maneuvered and deep struck to where Drago was the closest model (Once again, bubble wrap characters, even Drago) and proceeded to unload three 5 man squads of plasma combis on him and the paladins wiping them all out and losing 5 guys to overcharge in the process. We then charged the other named guy and dropped him to one wound and he gated out and later periled himself to death.

 

Deep strike is just flat out nasty this edition and expect to be playing cat and mouse as people start to learn their armies. I fully expect every army that can to be deep striking with everything they can. Thankfully all of my armies have something with this option. Guard I think has more than most until our codex comes out and corrects the whole storm troopers are troops thing. The fact we can drop large numbers of special weapons squads as troops, fairly cheaply and even get them into close melta range via our Valkyries makes Guard one of the best alpha strike armies in the game. I think we will have an issue with Necron vehicles though since they have a mechanic of the more wounds you inflict on a vehicle with a single shot, the better the chance they ignore it completely.

 

Unless you are at the table edge, 360 degree BUBBLE WRAP characters. More important this edition than in any edition past.

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Yeah, Stormtroopers DS'ing in with four meltas or four plasmaguns or what have you will utterly waste units or characters.

The counter is absolutely huge numbers of Guard infantry to provide area denial to half the table (consider the table presence of 120 Guard Infantry f'r example).

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Apologies for the short response, I'm currently on holiday. But want to say thanks for the response.

I wanted to say a couple of things. One was that the game was only a 1000pts and I managed to fit in 50 infantry and 3 tanks which I didn't think was too bad. Considering the more elite nature of the list.

Deep striking is great. But, deep strike is easy to counter, I think deep strike will be brutal until people learn to bring a screening unit or units. 9" from an enemy unit is actually quite far and brimstones from this game actually stopped my deep strikers getting into rapid fire range of anything important so had to hold them in reserve until turn2. Which wasn't a disaster but in other games it might be. So a more balanced approach is better than all/mostly deep striking. IMO.

Cheers for the comments once again

Edited by WarriorFish
Double post error corrected
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Apologies for the short response, I'm currently on holiday. But want to say thanks for the response.

This is how you behave soldiers: despite being on R&R still reports back with vital intel :wink: Being Guard we can get units on the table easily, so don't forget to make life difficult for enemy deep strikers with clever placement :tu:

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So I decided to bust out my old catachans for my 2nd game of 8th. My cousin gave them to me 6 years ago and I've wanted to see if I enjoy guard so I wanted to test them out.

 

I only had enough for a vanguard full of: harder, 2 plasma vets squads, and a tank commander in a LRBT which was allied to my blood angels. I played a doubles game with sisters as my allies vs primaries/dark angels and starter box nurgle.

 

General thoughts:

 

Hawker with vets are amazing, allowing me overcharge every turn. I fired them point blank into a deathwing knight squad and even though they had storm shields, I was still able to cause some damage.

 

The battle cannon was really hit or miss. Sometimes it rolled 1 shot, others it rolled 5. Its definetly a great multi wound model killer against units like the primaris.

 

My lasguns continually somehow caused the most damage against the terminators. Lasguns op :D!

 

Melee is a much more credible threat this edition. My opponent managed to make a deep strike Assault completely crumpling a guard squad.

 

Snipers are going to be a pain, their ability to cause mortal wounds that you have no hope of saving is going to be annoying considering how squishy guard stuff is.

 

All in all it was very fun game to play and I actually found myself wishing I hadn't brought more guard stuff then marine stuff. I also found that I have a gaming philosophy suited the guard in that I have no qualms with having units destroyed to a man. I think I'll stick with guard of the now :)!

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If you're bringing a tank commander, bring at least one other tank.

Lasrifles have always been the best elite unit killer, sheer mass of wounds means some will be failed and those Terminators will all die* mwahahahaha.

 

* results not guaranteed, pray to the God-Emperor for best results**
** prayers only answered if your faith is strong enough, if prayers not answered, evidence of heresy, see Commissar and Priest after combat if you have survived by the grace of the God-Emperor.

Edited by Gen.Steiner
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I didn't know you were editor of the regimental standard!

 

The re-roll to 1 order is borderline heretical in my opinion. Dice properly prepared with holy incense and then stored correctly in a relic of the most Holy God Emperor will never land on a 1. Why is it that some commanders are using that order then!?

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