Limited options, responses?

[bluntpencil]

Have GW responded to the complaints about the lack of options for DW heroes?

 

For instance:

 

• Why can't heroes use bikes or jump packs?
• Why can't Chaplains get Terminator Armour?
• Why don't Deathwatch get Apothecaries, Champions, Ancients, and Techmarines?

 

If the answer is 'there aren't miniatures for them', surely they'll respond well to 'We will pay extra for more sets, in order to get the arms and shoulder pads required, if only we were allowed to!'.

[Shinespider]

GW directly responding to anything like this is something that happens only once in a generation, when the stars align *just so.*

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

It's easy to make minis for them. They did it with the Captain, Chaplain and Librarian. Just slap the silver pauldron there and there ya have it. 

 

Though the previous codex makes mention that the Deathwatch do have Apothecaries and Techmarines. Apothecaries seem to do more office work than field work, whereas Techmarines are supposedly the pilots/drivers of the Deathwatch vehicles and Flyers. 

[SnakeChisler]

There's plenty of Deathwatch options why get sanguine over a full chapters goodies

 

After a few games into 8th Deathwatch work on a veteran scale but KT options are overpriced, a 3 vet squad 2 HQ loadout with razorbacks is under 1000, off the back of a game against Orks they handle well against hordes.

 

No one wants them to be Ultra's mk2

[Bronze Beast in the Dark]

There's plenty of Deathwatch options why get sanguine over a full chapters goodies

 

After a few games into 8th Deathwatch work on a veteran scale but KT options are overpriced, a 3 vet squad 2 HQ loadout with razorbacks is under 1000, off the back of a game against Orks they handle well against hordes.

 

No one wants them to be Ultra's mk2

 

What HQs d you use for 1K and how do you equip your squads?

[Irbis]

There's plenty of Deathwatch options why get sanguine over a full chapters goodies

 

I take you never saw the DW Dread table? GW literally wasted ink and space in Index to limit DW dreads to below 7th edition level. a limitation NONE of the other 7 SM armies in the book face We're not talking here about conversion beamers or laser cutters, apparently simple autocannons and heavy flamers are too advanced tech for DW, ditto with SIA in Dread bolters...

[shandwen]

 

 

There's plenty of Deathwatch options why get sanguine over a full chapters goodies

I take you never saw the DW Dread table? GW literally wasted ink and space in Index to limit DW dreads to below 7th edition level. a limitation NONE of the other 7 SM armies in the book face We're not talking here about conversion beamers or laser cutters, apparently simple autocannons and heavy flamers are too advanced tech for DW, ditto with SIA in Dread bolters...

Model-wise I understand the lack of SIA in stormbolters and vehicles, but it annoys me to see we can't take options that I have built... even the basic multimelta.

[Moostick]

I would really like to see what GW's response would be to this questions. Deathwatch are supposed to have access and be able to hijack whatever they want to complete a mission, but oh hey, you can't take this, this, that, this, that, and pretty much everything on this side of the room. And also this side too.

[Vel'Cona]

Instead of focusing on the things we can't do, maybe it'd be better to focus on the items we have?  SIA, FC, HTH et al are interesting upgrades now wholly unique to DW, and that's just the tip of the iceberg in reality.  I don't begrudge anyone that feels DW have been limited somewhat unfairly by GW, but that doesn't mean we can't at least make a decent showing with this army anyway.

[Irbis]

Eh, most of that special gear is really a ballast, though, except maybe Frag. Wildly inefficient, causes you to throw good points after the bad (looking at you, Infernus). Even SIA, though it's very versatile, would be better off on some models (like say a squad with 4x flamer and 1x frag, which is overpriced by cost of SIA compared to literally every other SM army list). I even made thread pointing out it's good the DW ICs don't have DW wargear - as thanks to it they can take the good items without worrying about SIA being wasted. Which is really sad because that it not a thing that should please DW players but what can you do...

[mjrwaud]

Eh, most of that special gear is really a ballast, though, except maybe Frag. Wildly inefficient, causes you to throw good points after the bad (looking at you, Infernus). Even SIA, though it's very versatile, would be better off on some models (like say a squad with 4x flamer and 1x frag, which is overpriced by cost of SIA compared to literally every other SM army list). I even made thread pointing out it's good the DW ICs don't have DW wargear - as thanks to it they can take the good items without worrying about SIA being wasted. Which is really sad because that it not a thing that should please DW players but what can you do...

 

That's a good point.

 

When it comes to the special issue ammo... it would clear up more than one issue by having it as a "buy in" option. If you had to buy SIA for models it would both save the expense where it has no use (models with frag cannons, melee weapons) and allow it to be added to HQ models (Captain, Chaplain Librarian).

 

Oh well... it looks like that ship has sailed...

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

Instead of focusing on the things we can't do, maybe it'd be better to focus on the items we have?  SIA, FC, HTH et al are interesting upgrades now wholly unique to DW, and that's just the tip of the iceberg in reality.  I don't begrudge anyone that feels DW have been limited somewhat unfairly by GW, but that doesn't mean we can't at least make a decent showing with this army anyway.

 

I know that I have definitely made the most out of what I do have. For consistency's sake, both me and my opponent agree to use SIA on the generic HQs where applicable. I may not be a very powerful force, but damn I felt like I am doing something meaningful with the Deathwatch. I just need to know how to use my forces effectively despite the limited weapons we do have. I just need to prioritize high-value target elliminations, which is easier said than done. But with the 8th Ed, I think I know that it CAN be done. And I love the Infernus, despite it's drawbacks. :)

[Vel'Cona]

That's a great attitude to have, OXI!  I think it's too easy to focus purely on competitive performance and forget why we enjoy an army in the first place.  It can be disappointing to be barred from interesting upgrades seemingly without cause, but I like to think of it more as playing 40k in "challenge mode" or something like that.  This attitude seems to work great for the Sisters of Battle players, so why not us?  :)

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

I enjoy the army because it has a certain playstyle I am very fond of. To play Deathwatch is to not play it like a generic chapter where they charge head on and purge the mutant, the alien and the heretic. They are no more survivable than the average Astartes.  Their job lies in knowing the right spots to strike at an opponent's army as there is always at least one of two of those things that make any army solid. Take that away and it all falls apart. That element may not be an HQ or a Lord of War. 

[Dusktiger]

In regards to dreadnought options, what i would like them to answer is about the plasma cannon.  normal dreadnoughts use the Heavy Plasma Cannon, which in supercharged mode only causes a single mortal wound on a 1.  but the DW dreads are said to have just a Plasma Cannon, which is cheaper and removes the model entirely if you roll a 1.  that feels like it was a missed typo; like they came up with the DW list before deciding to make normal dreadnoughts have their own variant of the Plasma Cannon, and forgot to update the DW list.

[Vel'Cona]

In regards to dreadnought options, what i would like them to answer is about the plasma cannon.  normal dreadnoughts use the Heavy Plasma Cannon, which in supercharged mode only causes a single mortal wound on a 1.  but the DW dreads are said to have just a Plasma Cannon, which is cheaper and removes the model entirely if you roll a 1.  that feels like it was a missed typo; like they came up with the DW list before deciding to make normal dreadnoughts have their own variant of the Plasma Cannon, and forgot to update the DW list.

 

Definitely a typo, I'd say.  DW may well be the longest FAQ when GW releases them.

[Dusktiger]

i did post about it on their FB page and they responded fairly quick stating theyre going to forward it to the FAQ boys cause it raised a good point

[Yodhrin]

​

I enjoy the army because it has a certain playstyle I am very fond of. To play Deathwatch is to not play it like a generic chapter where they charge head on and purge the mutant, the alien and the heretic. They are no more survivable than the average Astartes.  Their job lies in knowing the right spots to strike at an opponent's army as there is always at least one of two of those things that make any army solid. Take that away and it all falls apart. That element may not be an HQ or a Lord of War. 

 

​

​By the same token, it might be an HQ or a Lord of War, the whole point of having a vast armoury to go with your adaptable tactics is that if you do need a thing, it's there for you to use.

​

​Look I can get them restricting the odd thing here & there to give DW a different "feel" on the tabletop, they don't need ​every  weapon, unit, and wargear option that regular Marines have, but nobody is ever going to convince me there is a gameplay upside nor a logical fluff justification for arbitrarily limiting which characters can take jump packs or power fists, nor for the utterly inexplicable lack of Apothecaries and Techmarines. It makes no sense whatsoever that a Blood Angels Chaplain simply forgets how to use his jump pack and power fist when seconded to the Deathwatch, nor that two vital battlefield roles are stuck pulling shifts as chauffers and desk jockeys.

[bluntpencil]

​

I enjoy the army because it has a certain playstyle I am very fond of. To play Deathwatch is to not play it like a generic chapter where they charge head on and purge the mutant, the alien and the heretic. They are no more survivable than the average Astartes.  Their job lies in knowing the right spots to strike at an opponent's army as there is always at least one of two of those things that make any army solid. Take that away and it all falls apart. That element may not be an HQ or a Lord of War. 

 

​

​By the same token, it might be an HQ or a Lord of War, the whole point of having a vast armoury to go with your adaptable tactics is that if you do need a thing, it's there for you to use.

​

​Look I can get them restricting the odd thing here & there to give DW a different "feel" on the tabletop, they don't need ​every  weapon, unit, and wargear option that regular Marines have, but nobody is ever going to convince me there is a gameplay upside nor a logical fluff justification for arbitrarily limiting which characters can take jump packs or power fists, nor for the utterly inexplicable lack of Apothecaries and Techmarines. It makes no sense whatsoever that a Blood Angels Chaplain simply forgets how to use his jump pack and power fist when seconded to the Deathwatch, nor that two vital battlefield roles are stuck pulling shifts as chauffers and desk jockeys.

The Apothecary one particularly bothers me. The Deathwatch rely on other chapters sending their elites. They won't send their elites to them if they don't retrieve the geneseed of those who gave their lives on such a posting.

[Vel'Cona]

I'm more annoyed by the lack of DW Techmarines, simply because there's one in the original DW comics re-distributed by GW simultaneously with the original DW codex release :P

 

It's rather mind-boggling when you think about it.