Kua Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Raven Guard Captains are fiercely independent, and it's incredibly rare for the chapter to fight as a whole. Individual companies are completely autonomous and are quick to lend their aid to Imperial commanders across the galaxy, with or without the sanction of their Chapter Master.– Lexicanum (and a well known info anyway) Now, how does one have to imagine this for reserve companies who consist of mainly the same unit type and are this way left with very few tactical options? And do you expect them to alter their organization, like the 6th Comp being trained not only with bikes and the 7th not only with LS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedouin2 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 To me I believe the Shadow Captains Just kinda pick and choose what units they need from each other in agreement. But it's difficult to imagine the reserve companies operating the same as other codex chapters. I'm sure at least one full company is stationed at Deliverance at all times, and probably rotates along with the other 3 reserve companies. I see the operating like how US Marines use their MEUs, which is a bunch of different units of different MOS's touring around a specific region of the world, stopping at different ports, training and used to quickly to respond situations in their region. So maybe the other 3 reserve companies do that. And according to the Sons of Corax book of short stories and novellas, a company can stay gone for several years. So maybe they send out fleets to different locations of the galaxy with several different units of different companies to conduct the same mission? And as far as training goes, I believe it is said that Tactical Marine is fully trained at every unit in the Chapter... beside Techmarine, Chaplain and other specialized roles of course. And my idea above further adds to that. Keeping them out in rotation builds not only experience but training for new roles as well. Just my idea of them. I hope to implement that into my models when I achieve my goal of a full battle company. Any other unit added will have a reserve company colored shoulder trim. I know the RG are a codex chapter... but I don't see them as fully operating as one. Just doesn't fit with my views of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I just recently stumbled about that Quote also. It's from the 6th Edition Codex Space Marines. Aaand … I would rather consider it retconed by the Angels of Death Supplement, which lays out that the Raven Guard do have Reserve Companies. Earlier there was still a possibility, that their Companies are more autonomous than the Codex suggest. The Iron Hands Clan Companies "suffered" a comparable fate … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Reserve companies can still act independently. In fact, with the new list construction options, we can actually do that on the table top now. You can legally take nothing but HQ and Fast Attack or Heavy Support choices. Take 2 HQ, 6 Assault Squads, 3 Bike Squads, and a few Land Speeders and you have a very Raven Guard force. Also, unless it has changed you don't HAVE to run Assault Squads with jump packs. Run a couple squads without them and stick them in Razorbacks to help fill out your anti tank needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) Also also, suggested in the 7th (maybe 6th) edition Codex, the 9th and 8th Co would field Centurion suits while Techmarines fly the StormX machines as auxiliary. Even though the 7th Co is described as piloting gunships along with Land Speeders ... The point is Reserve Co could act independently. But if I were the Chapter Master, they would be the true reserves to the Battle Co. Edited June 18, 2017 by Race Bannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I would assume that a few squads would be seconded to the battle companies, but you'll still have roughly a demi company that can do things on their own if need be. I mean, if all the reserve companies are is strictly reserves, why have a command structure in place? They all have a captain and presumably chaplains and librarians. That indicates that they can act as a company if the need arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kua Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 First of all, thx for the replies. I just recently stumbled about that Quote also. It's from the 6th Edition Codex Space Marines. Aaand … I would rather consider it retconed by the Angels of Death Supplement, which lays out that the Raven Guard do have Reserve Companies. Earlier there was still a possibility, that their Companies are more autonomous than the Codex suggest. What exactly does it state? Also also, suggested in the 7th (maybe 6th) edition Codex, the 9th and 8th Co would field Centurion suits while Techmarines fly the StormX machines as auxiliary. Even though the 7th Co is described as piloting gunships along with Land Speeders ... Concerning 7th Co, 6th Ed is only speaking of Stormtalons, 7th Ed uses the more general term “gunship”. Maybe it is mainly meant to include the Interceptor variant. Stormravens are only mentioned as “premium” transport for the 1st Co, probably seen as the flying Land Raiders they are. (LR are 1st only, too.) 8th is trained with both bikes and LS (Codex 5th Ed). Centurions being 8th and 9th Co resp. is indeed from the 6th Ed Codex, found it. In 7th they only are listed in the armoury. But thinking of the armoury… are the pilots of vehicles assigned to a specific company still Techmarines? And if Bikes and LS are listed in the armoury, who are they piloted by? Or are they only kept there until assignment to some company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Bikes and Land Speeders are operated by regular battle brothers. Going by both the lore and the fact that you don't get Techmarine pads in a Land Speeder kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) First of all, thx for the replies. I just recently stumbled about that Quote also. It's from the 6th Edition Codex Space Marines. Aaand … I would rather consider it retconed by the Angels of Death Supplement, which lays out that the Raven Guard do have Reserve Companies. Earlier there was still a possibility, that their Companies are more autonomous than the Codex suggest. What exactly does it state? *snip* I assume you mean the Angels of Death Supplement, not the Quote. The Supplement shows the individual Companies with the (absurd) codex compliant Structure: 1st Veterans, 2nd - 5th Battle Companies, 6th - 9th Reserve, 10th Scout-Company. This already breaks the former Quote its neck. But also the Supplement says that the … ah … I'll just quote it … "Although the default fightiing force established for Space Marines is a Battle Company of one hundred men-at-arms, there are many warzones where their deployment ist simply impractical. Perhaps some Warriors are injured, or already deployed elsewhere, or perhaps the Battlefield requires specialist forces in order to achieve an objective. Whatever the reasons, in these circumstances a Strike Force will be mobilised in place of Battle Company." Angels of Death Supplement, Page 4. With the Raven Guard using a lot of Scouts, I hardly see any chance for "fiercely independent" Captains and "completely autonomous" Companies anymore … P.S.: … but on the other Hand, I embraced that quite a while ago. The "Strike Force" is you free ticket to do whatever you like with your own Army. Give it an own Name. Add everything you think your Force needs. Even skip the official Heraldry! You can always argue that the circumstances or "Battlefield requires" it! Edited June 19, 2017 by Filius Kua 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kua Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) I don’t like “Do whatever you want!” and „The other kid, that just didn’t read the text, is right too!“ kind of fluff, tbh. As for your quote: It seems to describe the general understanding of the Codex Astartes of how things should work. How directly is it applied to the RG? Also, the Lex lists the composition of the RG companies (that is likewise taken from the Codex Astartes). Anyone can tell the source? Is it from Kauyon, too, like the fancy titles and captain names? Because there is no other source given. Edited June 19, 2017 by Kua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 And shame on Lexicanium for not citing the source. Frankly, without a source (having not owning Kauyon myself), I would not put too much stock into that reference. By the fluff, the RG are a Codex compliant Chapter. So, the tools and doctrines are all the same. In my mind, some doctrines are more applicable to their preferred method of war. They are likely to have developed their own. To me, the AoD supplement was supposed to do this: The Bladewing Assault Brotherhood (for example) was meant to be for RG-use only. Chapter Tactics be damned, formations were to define the Chapter. But ooooh nooo, they were all shared Why? Because it was just one way Space Marine Chapters organize their troops and toys to do something. Ok, sorry about that. Back on topic and to attempt to discuss the question about assigned vehicles and Techmarines: I have not read any directives, yet I have imagined that a Techmarine is assigned to a machine and the machine is assigned to the Company. So, since only a select amount of units clearly show a Techmarine in use, then I think it's safe to say those machines are assigned. It's a convoluted mess when you dig deeper into stuff like crews of Rhinos versus Predators, yet FW is more detailed about such topics. I'm not convinced the Reserve Companies act as "independently" as the Battle Companies due to their expected organization. Either they are restricted in their deployment because of their Codex-adherent organization, or their deployment is minimized in scope and scale because their capabilities are limited. If that makes sense. Kua 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I don’t like “Do whatever you want!” and „The other kid, that just didn’t read the text, is right too!“ kind of fluff, tbh. As for your quote: It seems to describe the general understanding of the Codex Astartes of how things should work. How directly is it applied to the RG? Also, the Lex lists the composition of the RG companies (that is likewise taken from the Codex Astartes). Anyone can tell the source? Is it from Kauyon, too, like the fancy titles and captain names? Because there is no other source given. Okay … maybe "whatever you like" goes bit far. You still do have to stick to the Indices / Codices when it come to building your own Strike Force. But I do think that the Introduction of Strike Forces their Formations was just that: An attempt to put that, what Gamers do when they select units from the entire Codex and field them as a single Force plausible within the Fluff (plus all the things Race said). I don't understand what you refer to, when you say "'The other kid, that just didn’t read the text, is right too!' kind of fluff". May I don't understand it because I am not an native English speaker, maybe because it's 2:47 here and I should be sleeping right now. Anyhow: I hope I didn't offend you! If I should have done so, I am sorry of course. That wasn't my intention. I just wanted to add what I've read and my understanding of that. "How directly is it applied to the RG?" Ah … sorry, I thought the Angels of Death Supplement is common Ground around here. Sorry for that! the Supplement focuses on the Not-Ultramarines-First-Founding-Chapters that don't have own Codices. It draws together additional Rules from other Publications and adds a few things here and there. And so it conains also several Sections on the Raven Guard, while the whole Focus of the book is put on Strike Forces. On Page 46 is the List of the Companies to be found with all the Names you found in the Lexicanum. On Page 47 is the Schema of the Raven Guards own Talon Strike Force, which – in an attempted fluffy way – tries to combine several raven-guard-ish Formation to one codex-compliant Strike force. Does this clear things up a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kua Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 (Filius, mein Englisch ist auch nicht besser, als deins. Das war nur etwas hoffentlich unterhalsame Polemik, KA, wofür du dich gerade entschuldigst. ;) ) Yes, thx, I skipped the last couple of editions, so Angels of Death may be common ground here, but it wasn’t to me. I’ll have to have a look in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (Gotta keep it English per Forum Rules. Do the best we can, use PMs if it will help ^_^) AoD will be worth some investment for research purposes, I'm still looking through it because it was packed with stuff and a good read :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yak Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I always kinda liked the idea of the Raven Guard 8th company just going off and doing their own thing. And by own thing I mean "100 Jump Pack ka-boooming" various battlefields! Reminds me of going on holiday as a kid and doing bombs into the swimming pool to annoy all the snobby sun bathers. The look of disdain on their faces, I imagine, would match the look of enemy generals as their carefully laid battle plans are ruined by the 8th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Yeah, pretty sure the 8th does quite a bit on their own, since the whole Company is basically operating like the Raven Guard prefer to anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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