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Talons of the Emprah, Rules? (8th.)


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#1
Miru

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Brothers, 

 

yesterday I had a nice little Matched Game (only the first 2 Rounds so far, though) between the Talons of the Emprah and the Space Wolves. 1.000 Points eaach, SW = 57 Powwer, Talons = 53 Power. 

 

So far the Talons are kicking my teeth in. Badly. 

 

SInce the Talons seem to be a worthwile army (and I really like the models, thus hobby aspect of them), I was thinking about expanding on it. 

 

However, I that the Games Workshop Index "Imperium II" only features the core forces. 

The Gallatus Dreadnought, tanks and Saggitarius Guard are nowhere to be seen. 
Same goes with the Sister's Vehicles. 
They only feature the Stuff from the "Talons of the Emperor" Box-set.
 
I wonder, whether it planned to fully legalise these forces in 40k?
That would make the Talons Force pretty dull and even (legally) unplayable since e.g. HQs are missing. One can not even build a legal, Talons-only, Patrol Detachment this way.
 
Expanding on the force would become unintereting if this was the case :-(
Given the Key Word system I could put any Imperium HQ in the Army, thus legalise the detachment.
But c'mon... Have you read "Master of Mankind"? CAn you imagine a Custodees force being lead by a lowly Space Marine, or even Commisar (Who is a HQ, right?)? Just not coherend. At all. 
 
Has anybody heard (or knows) where the rules for those units to be played in the 8th Edt. of Warhammer 40k can be found? 
Is it one of the Imperial Armour books? I checked Astra Militarum and Astartees Book's Indexes, but could not find the Custodes or Sisters. 
I assume, it can't be the Inferno Book, since this book contains 7th edt. rules only. 
 
Any idea or thought... or even knowledge on the TOpic?

✠ Space Wolves ✠ Death Watch ✠
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#2
Silentz

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As far as we can see, no - the fancypants Custodes stuff like jetbikes and grav tanks and that is for 30k.  

 

Games Workshop "Prime" will not publish rules for Forge World models that you can't buy in a Warhammer/GW store.  I would say "ever" but... things do change. 

 

It may be that Forge World produce a book which gives 40k rules for them, but they're not in the upcoming "Fires of Cyraxus" (Red Scorpions, Mechanicus, Tau) so they are at least 6-9 months away. 

 

In short, don't hold your breath - the Custodes are diminished in the 10,000 years since the Heresy and don't have access to their full armory.

Dat Land Raider tho.   Whooo.. 


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#3
Charlo

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I'll be using my custodes transport as a Land Raider in 40k.

 

It has some twin bolt guns and las weapons so it all works out.


In Their Fists They Carry Death - The Legiones Custodes

++Heresy WIP Thread: Talons++

++WIP Thread++

++Index Astartes Sanguine Visions++

 


#4
Silentz

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Sounds good. Might not fly in a tournament type setting due to different size and shape - would need to check it with the TO in advance - but I can't imagine anyone outside of that not being perfectly happy.



#5
Miru

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Oh well.. Thats a real shame. These are nice models. And they are tough as nails from what i experiencd so far. 
I had a 1.000 points game (8th) between Talons and Space Wolfes. Just 2 Rounds in the Custodees are whiping the floor with my wolfes since I lack the heavy waepons to deal with them in this set up. 

 

Even though the Talons are grossly outnumbered, thaey are dishing out some serious pain. I don't think my wolves will survive till the end of the 5th turn ;-D

 

Would have loved to get some Saggitarius Guard or at least a Gallatus Contemptor for my (40k) Army. 


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#6
the jeske

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Just 2 Rounds in the Custodees are whiping the floor with my wolfes since I lack the heavy waepons to deal with them in this set up. 

 

did you use a 7th ed army ?


"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


#7
Miru

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Hi Jeske, 

 

No, i used the rules from the free Battle Primer (8th basic ruleset) on the Community site and used leaks of the Indexes "Imperium I +II" + Battlescribe to build the Armies. 

 

Today after work I'LL collect my 2 Starter Box Sets as well as some Indexes and will most likely spent the rest of the day reading. 


✠ Space Wolves ✠ Death Watch ✠
 Talons of the Emperor 
 
 -= My Album =-

#8
the jeske

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I may have not worded it right. Did you take an army that was close to what you played in 7th, and tried to play it in 8th. Because in general SW swarm real good, and for a low count army it is realy hard to win a game vs them .


"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


#9
TheFinisher4Ever

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As of right now there are no plans, as far as anyone knows, for the 30k Custodes units to get 40k rules. GW has actually given a (stupid imo) fluff reason for it so I don't see them bringing them in anytime soon. If 30k ports over to 8th, we will get rules for them but I wouldn't hold your breath for anything else. I'm hoping we can make a homebrew dex to use for beer and pretzel nights in the interim.


Ad Mech - 5,000 points

Blood Angels - 12,000 points

Dark Angels - 6,500 points

Deathwatch - 3,000 points

Eldar - 18,500 points

Imperial Fists - 5,000 points

Imperial Guard - 1,000 points

Grey Knights - 6,500 points

Sisters of Battle - 3,000 points

 


#10
RainbowWarrior

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Brothers, 

 

yesterday I had a nice little Matched Game (only the first 2 Rounds so far, though) between the Talons of the Emprah and the Space Wolves. 1.000 Points eaach, SW = 57 Powwer, Talons = 53 Power. 

 

So far the Talons are kicking my teeth in. Badly. 

 

SInce the Talons seem to be a worthwile army (and I really like the models, thus hobby aspect of them), I was thinking about expanding on it. 

 

However, I that the Games Workshop Index "Imperium II" only features the core forces. 

The Gallatus Dreadnought, tanks and Saggitarius Guard are nowhere to be seen. 
Same goes with the Sister's Vehicles. 
They only feature the Stuff from the "Talons of the Emperor" Box-set.
 
I wonder, whether it planned to fully legalise these forces in 40k?
That would make the Talons Force pretty dull and even (legally) unplayable since e.g. HQs are missing. One can not even build a legal, Talons-only, Patrol Detachment this way.
 
Expanding on the force would become unintereting if this was the case :-(
Given the Key Word system I could put any Imperium HQ in the Army, thus legalise the detachment.
But c'mon... Have you read "Master of Mankind"? CAn you imagine a Custodees force being lead by a lowly Space Marine, or even Commisar (Who is a HQ, right?)? Just not coherend. At all. 

 

 

It is possible to take a Battleforged, Custodes only force, but it's less than ideal. You could take each unit as an Auxiliary Detachment. It's not exactly a brilliant solution, since you would have zero Command Points to use in the game, but it does allow for a pure Custodes force.
 

The other alternative is to convert a HQ model and use counts-as for the rules, but i'm struggling myself to find a suitable equivalent that wouldn't cause undue confusion for my opponent.

It would have been nice to have had a HQ choice thrown in there, even if it were merely a case of Shield-Captains being separate HQ choices and the squad size of the Custodes dropping to 4, ala the Sanguinary Guard (albeit their sergeants became Elite choices).


Edited by RainbowWarrior, 19 June 2017 - 09:27 PM.


#11
Dulahan

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I just have Guilliman or Celestine lead my force, lots of room for other stuff like a Primaris Captain (Another good option for a 'counts as Custodes general, similar if a touch weaker statlines!  But in Gravis Armor, not terrible!).  Easy Brigade.  Not like there's anything to key off of the "Custodes" keyword yet either.  so just do it off the Imperium one for now and gold.



#12
Aothaine

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I've been working on this myself as well.

 

I am using the forge world dreadnoughts as "count as" contemptor dreadnoughts. There is no reason that won't be accepted in tournament play as the weapons clearly state dreadnought close combat weapon, multi-melta, kheres assassult canon which the ranged weapons are easily added to the forge world models.

 

Also the list Custodes have right now is really limited but also really powerful and some-what flexible. You can run Custodes as ranged objective holds with a punch using spears or, my preference, sword and board them and give the shield captain a sword and knife. You would run the swords into close combat and have the spears lay down cover fire. The dreadnoughts and land raider that Custodes have access to are really good and provide the much needed ranged fire-power for the Custodes. So much so that taking spears is almost unneeded. 

 

Now for HQs this is a more difficult topic that I have been trying to squeeze information out of the intelligence in this forum but have been hard pressed. So far there are four HQs that I might consider.

 

The two mentioned above: Celestine and Guilliman

The two I have found acceptable and fun: Cypher and Inquisitor in Terminator Armor

 

Celestine: I will check into her rules later tonight

 

Gulliman: Offers a beast of an HQ at 350pts, Possible Resurrection, 3 free command points, +1 to advance & charge rolls and re-roll hit rolls of 1 and failed morale tests for Imperium units that effect the Custodes

 

Inquisitor: 2+/5++ saves, Psychic powers that affect Custodes, Some-what cheap allowing you to take more Custodes(This is mainly to use my Ixion Hale as a Counts-as I paid $130 for the damn model I want to use it! lol)

 

Cypher: Denies slay the warlord on 2+, Can withdraw/advance and still shoot, Can easily keep up with ground pounding Custodes, is a lot stronger than most people think. Another thing I would like to mention here is that we are playing Custodes which is basically an army of amped space marine captains. We don't really need an even more powerful HQ. In fact, the Custodes don't even need an HQ at all outside of detachment requirements. Which is why Cypher makes a lot of sense to me. He will either draw no fire at all or draw a lot of fire and just deny your opponent slay the warlord on a 2+. There is also the fact that Cypher has a 4++ save and he gets to reroll 1's which means he doesn't miss unless you roll 1's back to back or there is a debuff on Cypher giving him negatives to his shooting attacks which he can use in Close Combat due to being able to use pistols. He can also fall back from a fight phase to target another nasty doing thing. I really feel that he is going to be the best HQ option for Custodes that doesn't gut the list.

 

Anyway, maybe we'll get more discussion about lord options in this thread. I would love to hear other's opinions on what HQs would be best to take.


Edited by Aothaine, 23 June 2017 - 10:58 AM.


#13
Retconned Legion

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I feel like I'm missing something, Roboute is a LoW isn't he? So how can he fulfil the HQ slot?

Sapor Irides

'Sorry, what did you say? Did you mention "the rules"? Now listen, bit of advice - tell me the truth if you think you know it, lay down the law if you're feeling brave! But, never, ever, tell me the rules!'

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#14
Aothaine

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I feel like I'm missing something, Roboute is a LoW isn't he? So how can he fulfil the HQ slot?

 

He is an HQ in 8th from what I've seen and heard.



#15
MagicHat

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Just checked, he is a Lord of War.


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#16
Aothaine

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Just checked, he is a Lord of War.

 

You are so correct! Thank you! Seem Gulliman will not work after all. But the others should work I believe. I know for sure Cypher and the Inquisitor work lol!



#17
Retconned Legion

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Just checked, he is a Lord of War.

Thanks for double checking MagicHat, i've been searching through my rulebook and Index thinking i'd missed something. It is a shame that he isn't a HQ choice, Guilleman with a Custodes bodyguard would be a pretty thematic force.


Sapor Irides

'Sorry, what did you say? Did you mention "the rules"? Now listen, bit of advice - tell me the truth if you think you know it, lay down the law if you're feeling brave! But, never, ever, tell me the rules!'

- Unknown Medicus m.2


#18
Master Sheol

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My Custodes army right now is not full custodes but a mix of custodes SoS and leader by Greyfax with an accompanying Astropath
So basically it is a custodes/astra telepatica army that act as a bodyguard for inquisitor Greyfax
Good enough for me

I use the relic contemptor from FW as venerable contemptor and i was about to order the LR and rhino doors with imperial aquila when i found FW retired them from their catalogue... :(

I Hope GW will give the custodes (and sos) at least one proper HQ to run a proper detachment without Always borrowing an inquisitor
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#19
AfroCampbell

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I have been pondering just using the Gallatus Contemptor, and converting the single lascannon on the end of the guardian spear with a melta gun tip and just using it as a venerable.


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#20
Aothaine

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The Forge world Contemports work great for the venerable contemptors. The only thing that doesn't really work is the shield. But you can easily just pass that off as a way for the 6+ FNP to work while the other maybe has some sort of shield. 

 

Also, the weapons are both fine as the entry in the index is Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon. It does not specify what it is. 

 

I'll be using six of them in my list when I get it in about 2 years. 

 

I'm having it built and painted professionally so it is costing me about $4,000. Totally worth in imho. As when I field the list I want people to just be in awe of it. ^_^






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