Characters and fire overwatch

[angrom]

I have a question about charging with a character at the same time as another unit.

Lets say we declare a charge with terminators and Draigo. Now the target unit can fire overwatch for every unit that declare a charge on it right?

However the character rules says you can't target him unless he is the closest target.

Then what happen when he is not the closest target (let's say the terminators are slightly in front of him).

Is the targeted unit shooting twice the terminators?? do they loose their fire overwatch against the character?

 

Also completely different. In melee you can use pistols now. but is it on the top of your normal melee attacks? is it replacing your melee attacks?

[Gentlemanloser]

Pistols are used in the Shooting Phase.  Melee Weapons in the Fight Phase.

 

You don't charge the GKT and Draigo at the same time, as they are two individual units.

 

You could charge the GKT first, take their overwatch and if the charge is successful the unit would them be locked in CC and could not overwatch Draigo.

[jeffersonian000]

Unless it's Tau, and there are other Tau nearby. It's a good question.

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

If you're in combat (enemy within 1") you can't overwatch.

 

You can overwatch a unit that declares a charge, when that specific unit declares.

 

There are no other units that are closer, as no other units have declared a charge.

 

So Draigo gets shot.

 

Also if have to check but i think the closest target selection is for the shooting phase. Which wouldn't apply to overwatch anyway.

[Holier Than Thou]

If you're in combat (enemy within 1") you can't overwatch.

You can overwatch a unit that declares a charge, when that specific unit declares.

There are no other units that are closer, as no other units have declared a charge.

So Draigo gets shot.

Also if have to check but i think the closest target selection is for the shooting phase. Which wouldn't apply to overwatch anyway.

But it says Overwatch is treated like a normal shooting attack, except it only hits on 6+. A normal shooting attack cannot target a character if he is not the closest unit so if Draigo is slightly further away than the terminator squad and he declares his charge first, the target unit will not be able to overwatch as they cannot target him. If he succeeds on his charge, the terminators can then safely declare a charge against the same unit without risk of overwatch. At least that's the way I read it.

[TheMostGood]

I have a question about charging with a character at the same time as another unit.

Lets say we declare a charge with terminators and Draigo. Now the target unit can fire overwatch for every unit that declare a charge on it right?

However the character rules says you can't target him unless he is the closest target.

Then what happen when he is not the closest target (let's say the terminators are slightly in front of him).

Is the targeted unit shooting twice the terminators?? do they loose their fire overwatch against the character?

 

Also completely different. In melee you can use pistols now. but is it on the top of your normal melee attacks? is it replacing your melee attacks?

 

You cannot target a character in the shooting phase if he is not the closest unit. You can declare as many units to charge as you want that are within 12in of the charging unit. They all get to fire overwatch (that's the catch). Once you roll your dice, you may go to whatever unit is within range of the dice rolled (and rules allow). 

 

You are unable to fire overwatch the moment you are within 1in of an enemy model. 

 

If you do not want your character to get charged caught in combat (the consolidate), you would have to keep them 4.1in away from your bubble wrapped unit. 

 

Pistols can be used in melee and can shoot into a unit engaged in melee. If you have more than one ranged weapon you must choose which type you are shooting: pistols OR your other weapons, it cannot be both. 

 

Edit: As for your character taking overwatch fire, there's no rules in there that I can see that says it can't be shot at (in overwatch) if it is not the closest unit.

Edited June 19, 2017 by TheMostGood

[Gentlemanloser]

The 'Character' box states;

 

 

 

can only be chosen as a target in the shooting phase if they are the closest

 

So that doesn't matter to Overwatch, as it happens in the Charge Phase.

 

Edit: Ninja'd by TMG. :)

Edited June 19, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[angrom]

from my understanding of the rule in 8th you have to declare all your charging units and resolve overwatch accordingly before moving any unit in contact (no more sequential charge resolution) so I think you can't deny the double overwatch even if one of your unit is successfully charging. (the precision in the rule about not being able to overwatch when unit in less than 1" is probably to tell that you can't overwatch a unit charging you if in the previous turn you have been engaged by another unit)

So the question is to know if the rules about character during shooting apply as well in the charging overwatch.
In the overwatch section they says that it is resolved as a normal (out of phase) shooting phase

Edited June 19, 2017 by angrom

[Gentlemanloser]

The charge sequence is definatly sequential.

 

From section 2;

 

 

 

Once you have chosen an eligible unit

 

From the last section (4 Make Charge Move);

 

 

 

Once you've moved all the models in the charging unit, chose another eligible unit and repeat the above procedure

 

I can see how it might look like the repeat is only for step 4, but it isn't.

 

The summary for the steps of the Charge Phase (Charge Sequence) is;

 

1: Chose unit to charge with

 

In the singular.

 

You chose a single unit and follow steps 2 to 4.  Then get to repeat from 1 with another single unit.

 

Otherwise Step 1 should have been "Chose units to charge with", if the repeat procedure was only for Step 4.

 

You can have multiple enemy units try to overwatch though, if you declare you're charging multiple units (with the single unit that is charging).

 

Edit:

 

As said above, about targetting characters, the 'normal rules is in he Shooting Phase you can't target them.  Any other Phase is fair game.

 

Which is a great little heads up for Smiting Characters in the Psychic Phase, now I think of it. Which is moot as Smite is the closest unit anyway...

Edited June 19, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[TheMostGood]

OK, got the book in hand. 

 

The rulebook says that each time a charge is declared against a unit, the target unit can immediately fire overwatch at the would-be-attacker. Doesn't give an exception to the character. It also says that overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack except that it is 6s to hit, so it doesn't seem like the full shooting rules apply (can't shoot at characters).

 

Still not super clear to me, but it seems like you can shoot overwatch. 

Finally, under moving "It (models) cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls,..." which means your character has to go around the terminators or whatever unit you have in front of the charging character. You would have to charge your terminators first, and they would move first, then your character charges, and he would get into combat.