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From 7th to 8th. Ups and downs.


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#1
Chaplain Lucifer

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So, what was hot in 7th andit's not in 8th and vice versa?

Or what are the hidden gems and the hidden stinkers?

 

I'm trying to see if Burna boyz can come back in 8th to their former glory. Mounted on a trukk the 8" range won't be a problem, not the to hit roll, but I feel only one D3 roll that affects whole unit can be unpleasent sometimes, when you most need.

 

Let's get the ball rolling...


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#2
Charlo

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All I keep hearing is the humble Boy is the new baseline for "GREAT TROOP" in 8th.

 

Great number of attacks, low cost, average shooting, numerous and doesn't need to worry much about morale.

 

It's good to be GREEN.


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#3
hammer grimblood

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I'd like my boyz to have keep their trucks but from what I've been reading/seeing big squads are the way to go. 2 squads of 30 boyz as the base for your army along with maybe a big unit of bikes or stormboyz seem decent.


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#4
Warhead01

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Everything seems to be much better now. 
The Gorka/Morkanauts look like they're a really strong choice now. The Bubble chukka may well b fantastic now, although more random than before. 
Storm boys look amazing. And burna boys.
I'm not sure about Warbikers, Deff Koptas, or Mega Nobs (MANZ) I'm not sure because of the massive change in point/ point structure. 
I don't think they're bad I just haven't a clear idea until I finally use them. 
The aircraft, to me, seem roughly the same. 

Everything I've seen or read says trukks are way better. 

The big thing is I haven't seen anything about anything being worse than in 7th. (I don't think they compare to 7th ed Orks.)  
There has been some grumbling about the KFF rules, and I think some cheatery rules loop hole stuff.  But it's fairly clear how it works. (Just think of it as using the terrain rules and you shouldn't have an argument. )
I'm of the opinion that learning the rules and how they work, and how to use them will go a long way for every army.  
I've read loads, and talked about it a lot, about first turn assaulting with the Orks. I'm not 100% sure that's a game winner. It'll go a long way towards winning but points still need to be scored. I'm thinking spending a turn or two setting up an end game will go further in the long run.
With some luck I'll get a game this or next week. 


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#5
Leif Bearclaw

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Biggest downers thus far? The removal of Ardboyz, and the looted wagon (I know it wasn't in the codex, but they added it back in a WD daily blog, so I'd hoped it would remain to allow for proper gun platform looted and converted funsies).


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#6
Warhead01

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Biggest downers thus far? The removal of Ardboyz, and the looted wagon (I know it wasn't in the codex, but they added it back in a WD daily blog, so I'd hoped it would remain to allow for proper gun platform looted and converted funsies).

I guess they got rid of the looted wagon because they don't sell a kit for it. 
Not too worried about it, if we're going to get it back, or anything new, I expect it'll b in the 8th edition codex when ever we get that. Kinda same with the Ard' boys. I had expected an Ard' boys kit after seeing the Orc blood bowl team. So there's still a chance? 


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#7
Perry

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How about a Supreme command Detatchment of 3-5 Weirdboys?

Just over 60 points each, stick them in some form of transport and keep them near your main battle line to benefit from the every 10 Orks you get +1 to your cast rule

So cruise around and Smite everything that's a threat, you should be getting plenty of 10+ rolls on the power which will grant you D6 smites instead of D3. You will suffer from perils so you will have to be careful incase you kill all the Weirdboys

Plenty of Alphastrike power on a tough unit but will need looking after
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#8
MagicMan

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I havent played with my orks in 8th yet, but seeing their rules has actually pushed me back to marines. Ive been playing orks for the past 2 years and had a lot of succesa with them in 8th.

I just cant see them working very well. Bubble chukkas for example, look bad to me, most people seem excited about them. I cant understand how some units are so expensive (deffkoptas etc) and there are little niggley things that irritate me, like ork burnas being the only d3 flame weapon.

I think i might just have to bite the bullet and put my boyz on the table and see how they do.


Also, weird seeing orks on B&C! Pleasant suprise though. Truly a dark millenium.

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#9
Perry

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I believe the reason behind Burna boys only having D3 flame hits is due to balance.

Their CC attacks have a decent AP, on a 2 attack model that hits on 3's and wounds most things on a 4.

With the Orks low BS you can't have Burna boys being a superior shooting choice as well as being more than competent in CC

#10
Mechanist

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Burna boys sound fine to me, but a core of big units to give moral boosts to smaller support units like Burnas, tank bustas and nobs, Stormboys paired with Warbikes ect sounds like a solid core.

Early charges in the right place to lock up or cripple a flank sounds like a fine and cunning plan, Da jump looks strong for this as well as the possibilities of deepstriking Stormboys assaulting the turn they arrive and warbiker speed also sounds sweet.

 

A good balance of speed and deepstriking could realy set up a nice bloodaxe ambush thats dead cunning and also brutal. 

 

Smaller units in trucks sound more like objective grabbers to me unless you go full on MSU and speed freaks.

 

As for point of the more elite or specialised stuff? well until we see how that pairs with the other forces and the points hanges there it's not something to take in isolation. 


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#11
CaptainHelion

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How about a Supreme command Detatchment of 3-5 Weirdboys?

Just over 60 points each, stick them in some form of transport and keep them near your main battle line to benefit from the every 10 Orks you get +1 to your cast rule

So cruise around and Smite everything that's a threat, you should be getting plenty of 10+ rolls on the power which will grant you D6 smites instead of D3. You will suffer from perils so you will have to be careful incase you kill all the Weirdboys

Plenty of Alphastrike power on a tough unit but will need looking after

You'll have to have them hop out of their trukk, though, as models in transports can't do much of anything by default. They certainly can't cast psychic powers.



#12
MagicMan

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I do get where you're coming from with Burna Boyz, i mean not many armies have the chance for a huge unit with flamers either, where 1d6 hits might be absolutely insane.

 

 

 

So far in 8th I've been playing Power Level, just recently switched to points, which is where some of my concern came from i think.

 

 

 

Burna boys for instance, 10 = 9PL or 140pts.   Each PL is roughly 20 pts, where is that extra 2 PL coming from?


Edited by MagicMan, 20 June 2017 - 08:52 AM.

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#13
UltiXorz

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So ive been pushing my orks quiet hard since 8th has hit and here are my findings

Im finding every unit can be really good, Nothing ive played so far has done horribly(apart from loota's)
5 games under my belt

Vs Dark Angels
Vs Templar/IG/Inquisition
Vs Tau
Vs Grey Knights
Vs Grey Knights

Im finding the following

 

Boyz
These are only viable as 30 blobs. 
Anything smaller and they can be shot out very easily. Mob rule makes them resistant to battle shock, but means you need to need to hug them to another big mob. Any player worth his salt will do the maths and reduce both evenly to maximize damage. I also favour not taking the Klaw anymore and find the Big Choppa a much more rounded weapon, as well as freeing up alot of points. 
Boyz tend to be best as a bullet magnet. Combined with a painboy and/or KFF and they tend to soak enemy firepower really nicely. Allowing more important units to perform

Grotz
These are invaluable. Essentially allowing you to negate enemy deep strikes on your flanks entirely. a squad of 30 can totally block off a board quarter from flanking units, Taking battle shock on them isnt that big of a deal as they are so cheap

Warboss
More of a support unit now, I find charging him into the enemy just results in a dead warboss, More often i leave him untill the boys have been wiped and he can clean up whats left. I also eschew towards the big choppa on him
Since he needs to constantly be within range of multiple boy squads i find him on a bike a requirement

definitely not the powerhouse model of 7th, most chapter masters will chew him out

Big Mek
you can either run him with tons of weapons or a KFF. personal preferance is with the KFF on a bike. Almost never took one in 7th. Struggle to justify not having one in 8th

Wierdboy
Very much a one trick pony. Give him dajump and get a 30 mob in the opponents face. once done just keep spamming smite until your opponent deals with him, his other powers seem really lacking

Tankbusta's
My favourite unit in 8th. they will die when focussed. But taking them 10 man in a trukk with just rokkits is an fantastic way to deal with vehicles. Reroll to hit against vehicles and 3 wounds at -2 is tough to ingore. These rarely dont make thier points back. I normally auto include at least 2 squads

 

Fliers

Grouping these all together as they all play the same, Great units and being able to shoot 360 is amazing. i find if someone targets them they tend to die, However take alot more shots then before but at the same price. Left alone they can cause alot of damage

Loota's

Honestly the worst unit in 8th for orks. they now wound less due to how the new wounding system works as well as being less survivable due to how cover works. Everytime i take them they kill 1 or 2 models and the just die.

Big Guns/Mek Guns

Fantatic units. having a psuedo character rule combined with better bs skill makes these great. The random strength also isnt as much of issue due to the new wounding system.

Warbikers
These seems super solid now, Putting out 72 shots on a full squad is a crazy amount of shots. I find them really resilient considering what most opponents are playing, combined with a big mek, painboy and warboss this is the closest to a death unit i can get too without dedicating far too many points too

Stormboyz

These are solid options, However if the opponent shoots them instead of boyz you are throwing points away, They seem to play better sitting behind the boyz and charging with them as opposed to in front of teh horde as you would expect from jump troops

Killa Kans
These are insane, if you can get them into position. Really solid in CC while still packing some decent shooting. 30 toughness 5 wounds with 3+ save makes them resiliant to most fire as well. 
If only dajump allowed you to move vehicles.
 

 

 

I havent had a chance to play with other units, But am slowly making my way through them.
But so far it feels like Orks need to build their lists more based on the meta then ever before,


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#14
Redtoof

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I do get where you're coming from with Burna Boyz, i mean not many armies have the chance for a huge unit with flamers either, where 1d6 hits might be absolutely insane.
 
So far in 8th I've been playing Power Level, just recently switched to points, which is where some of my concern came from i think.
 
Burna boys for instance, 10 = 9PL or 140pts.   Each PL is roughly 20 pts, where is that extra 2 PL coming from?


Bonus power will be for spanners upgraded with killsaws. Take a few of them in the unit and the cost will shoot up.

I took a small unit of burnas yesterday. They melted a squad of chaos cultists, then got charges and killed by a helbrute, but not before putting 3 wounds on it with overwatch. I think they are a prime example of a unit improving due to being able to hurt anything.
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#15
Terkael

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Large blobs of Nobz w/ ammo runts I could see being great bullet sponges, and power stabbas are dirt cheap


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#16
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Can't wait to see what FW gives us too rommie.gif


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#17
UltiXorz

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So a small update

Played another game vs Dark Eldar and got to try out Mek Guns

BubbleChukka

This weapon consistently under performed, I find its too easy for an opponent to negate one of its stats and cause the weapon to underperform. Really need your artillery to do well for them to be worth taking

Smasha Guns

This weapons suffers from being great against low toughness units, but having too few shots to be worth it. However firing at terminators would make these fantastic.
Against high toughness targets you are gonna wound less and with only 1 shot it hurts to miss

 

Traktor Cannon

Having only a single shot hurts this alot. Especially since its preferred targets alot of the time give it -1 to hit

Kustom Mega Cannons

These are the real deal. Putting out d6 shots per turn per gun that hit on 4's with good damage, strength and ap is mean. The losing a mortal wound on 1 is negated alot by the 5 crew required to have a Mek Gun. I will almost always take these




MegaNobs

These were a bit of a surprise for me. They play almost exactly like terminators did in 7th since they now have a pseudo invul since most ap doesn't get through their amour entirely, Yet to decide if they are worth it though. Since they performed well for me, i think thats more because of placement then actual unit strength
 



#18
highwind

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Kustom Mega Cannons

These are the real deal. Putting out d6 shots per turn per gun that hit on 4's with good damage, strength and ap is mean. The losing a mortal wound on 1 is negated alot by the 5 crew required to have a Mek Gun. I will almost always take these

 

 

The bigger crew doesnt help with suffering those mortal wounds because the rule clearly states the bearer of the Custom Mega Cannon is takes a mortal wound and that is obviously the Mek Gun, not one of the Grot Gunners.

You could use a Mek / Big Mek though, to replenish those wounds...



#19
UltiXorz

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Good point, never noticed the bearer must take the wound

with 6 Wounds per gun however i think its not that big of a problem. 



#20
Chaplain Lucifer

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About the boyz, shoota or choppa and slugga? I actualy replaced nearly all my choppas with shootas in 6th ed and not looking forward to re-replace it ;)


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#21
MagicMan

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Shootas do the same damage they've always done, however combat is alot more viable for Orks this edition, and in that case slugga/choppa seems like the best choice.

 

 

That said, shoota boyz can put out a serious amount of CC attacks still, especially in units of 20+ with Ghazgkull nearby. Pretty sure that'd give them +2 attacks, add another +1 if you get the Warpath weirdboy power off. Thats 5 attacks a piece on the charge, i think. 


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#22
Perry

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I'm a fan of Sluggas this edition. Large mobs of 30 Advancing turn 1 and 2 which limits shooting , then a charge with a Warboss Waaagh hopefully turn 2. I'd rather have the pistol shots whilst in CC and the extra attack with a Choppa that hits on 3's in CC compared to a few shoota shots that will be hitting on 6's due to advancing

#23
Warhead01

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About the boyz, shoota or choppa and slugga? I actualy replaced nearly all my choppas with shootas in 6th ed and not looking forward to re-replace it msn-wink.gif

 

This has been the debate for ever. ( I see what you did there. )

 

They both have their place, had their place. I'm happy I don't have to really decide before hand any more. Both units cost the same at 6 points a model.

For me it how many of which ever do I want in a mob. I'm usually good with mobs of 20 shootas and mobs of 30 Sluggas and choppas.  But then I never really used Nobs mobs over the years. I'm really thinking Storm boys make for better Slugga boys because they're faster.  I do think, which every you like better shootas or choppas you should bring at least one full mob. 


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#24
MagicMan

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I decided to bite the bullet and give my Orks a go.

 

Played a 1500 game against IG, he brought numerous artillery/infantry and a baneblade.

 

I took Kanz, Dreads, KFF Meks, a Gorkanaut, couple of KMK Mek Guns and a 6 man unit of flash gitz.

 

 

 

 

I was expecting to get trashed, but i did suprisingly well! It was a very close game, and the baneblade is insanely good, but i managed a win by claiming the relic with my flash gitz. Gorkanaut didnt get to do much, since the baneblade made it a big priority. Lotta fun though.


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#25
Redtoof

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On the subject of shootas vs sluggas, why not both? Since we can now mix and match I'm thinking 30 man units can consist if a combination. When you take casualties, remove the ones that are least relevant to the current match up.
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