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Sidearm selection...


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6 replies to this topic

#1
mjrwaud

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Just a quick little question... okay, maybe not that quick.

When equipping your killteam veterans, what are your preferred sidearms/offhand weapons for our different main weapons?

 

Bolter - Our "standard" flexible main, so I'm tempted mainly go with melee weapons (mostly power weapons due to their now reduced price)?

 

Shotgun - They're a bit pricey and short ranged, but also capable of doing more damage up close (2 damage when < 8" ), so I'm thinking also melee weapons?

 

Combi - Quite good, but also expensive... different choice depending on plasma / melta?

 

Stalker - I'm thinking a mix of storm shields (pricey), and pistols in case they need to move (and shoot)?

 

Frag / Infernus - Due to expense, it might just be better to stick with chainswords / bolt pistols?


Edited by mjrwaud, 19 June 2017 - 08:20 PM.


#2
TheSauce

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I saw this mentioned in another thread, and the more I think about it the more I'm liking pistols in almost all cases. Because of SIA, you're getting an extra attack with AP -2 or wounding on 2+, for free.

 

Is it better that +2 attacks with a chainsword (if you're assaulting, one on your turn and one on theirs)? Causal mathhammer says that, against marines (T4 3+) the pistol shooting AP-2 and the chainsword are the same. Against T5+ enemies the pistol is slightly better.

 

Of course this doesn't take into the chainsword account having one attack on the previous turn, possibly reducing casualties on the next, so there might be a slight edge to the chainsword? But the pistol can do wounds in the shooting phase, before any enemies can strike at all.

 

Both are good options, but I think it's easier to say my models have hidden pistols instead of hidden chainswords.

 

Power weapons on sergeants (3 attacks base!) seem like a super solid investment. And kitting out a melee squad entirely with chainswords is a great idea for a horde munching unit that can charge out of a corvus, shooting flamers/shotguns/frags and then hitting with 20 melee attacks (3 vets, sarge, black shield).



#3
SnakeChisler

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Bolter chainsword due to changes in assault is a good all rounder as poison 2+ is still a thing

Were back to the days of 2+ ing wraith constructs which is why they probably confiscated it off ultras & the extra attack is sweet, I think it's easy to go overboard with upgrades and starting to think a single frag cannon is OK.

Shotguns aren't worth +4 points as the flamer is only s3 even Against t3, gives punch in overwatch
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#4
Moostick

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Purely on usefulness, it depends on what the unit is for. If it's a shooty unit and you don't intend to charge, I would go with pistols. Pistols are better for longer engagements, while the chainsword is meant to end things ASAP. I like chainswords simply because they're chainswords.

 

Also, with heavy weapons, we can't take a chainsword/pistol/anything anymore. So no more one handing ML/HB/IHB/FCs like a boss.


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#5
Irbis

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Pistols are better for longer engagements

 

That's the problem. DW doesn't do long engagements. 3+ W1 T4 is simply too weak a platform for it. Plus, new pistol rules kind of suck if you have a better gun - so I lean towards making all models A3 (bullet catching chaff gets chainswords, bs/sarge take power sword/xenophase). That way you can still assault something in a pinch even with low body count.

 

Pistols are however good on unit that has only pistols - which is why I was advocating gunslinger VV since day one. You can fire both bolt pistols and plasma pistols without -1 to plasma rolls, fly away and still get to shoot, plus have deep strike to punish any position mistake by opponent - in that case, pistol can be better than ccw, but VV have special rules to pull it off. Vets don't.



#6
mjrwaud

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Thanks for the great input, it's definitely food for though!

 

Being a novice, it seems like the deathwatch mantra must be "the right tool for the job" both in terms of the role a killteam is chosen for and the weapons you choose for it.

 

- bolter/chainsword is a good way to go for standard vets (flexible, least expensive) with a power weapon / xenophase for the sergeant. It's been really tempting to throw in a few more powerful options (thunder hammer / lightning claws) but it does seem like a more efficient option to leave those to any vanguard, terminators, blackshields aded to the unit.

 

- Finally have to agree that shotguns don't seem worth it, which is a shame because they look so good... it'd be nice if they had a more distinct role/benefit.

 

- Stalker-pattern bolters seem like a good match with pistols, you don't want them moving but a pistol seems like the best option in the event they do or end up in melee.

 

I hadn't thought of gunslinger vanguard vets, but it sounds like a good option! 

Now with the decreased benefit of two melee weapons I had been going with power weapon + pistol (mostly bolt, with a few plasma / grav / inferno). Are two pistols worth the loss of flexibility?

 

With storm shields being so expensive (hopefully a typo in the index), are they ever worth it aside from HQ?


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#7
Vel'Cona

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Being a novice, it seems like the deathwatch mantra must be "the right tool for the job" both in terms of the role a killteam is chosen for and the weapons you choose for it.

 

That's the mantra of 8th edition in general, IMO.  It's too easy to think like 7th edition and assume stacking the old standbys (Grav, Haywire, etc.) will still work.  They'll do fine versus intended opposition, but the lack of flexibility will be a real problem as the resurgent armies hit the table.


Losing 'hope' after 10k years just because of a big warp storm? Doesn't sound like my Blood Angels.

Never had hope to begin with; they had duty, and that was enough.

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