8th Dark Angels Tactica and Tournament Guide (in progress)

[oldmanlee]

I must admit I keep looking at dw for a pair of local torneys I have in a month but can't make my mind up if I want to take a pair of land raiders to cut down on what I have to paint?

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Deathwing Knights are the obvious choice but coupled with what I feel is the obligatory Chaplain at the least, they come out rather expensive. 

 

Depends. I would of course use a chaplain when the knights are part of a mixed army. OTOH, if you already run a DW list, Belial does the same. He gives re-rolls to hit in ranged and close combat, so you only have to include an interrogator chaplain when you want the tactical flexibility of a second re-roll bubble.

 

All things considered, if you want a hard hitting unit, be it counter assault or pure assault, you want something to give it re-rolls, in order to maximize their potential. Even veterans kitted out with thunder hammers get expensive quickly. Tacking on a buff character will in most cases turn out to be worth more than the points of the character cost.

[G8Keeper]

Depends. I would of course use a chaplain when the knights are part of a mixed army. OTOH, if you already run a DW list, Belial does the same. He gives re-rolls to hit in ranged and close combat, so you only have to include an interrogator chaplain when you want the tactical flexibility of a second re-roll bubble.

 

All things considered, if you want a hard hitting unit, be it counter assault or pure assault, you want something to give it re-rolls, in order to maximize their potential. Even veterans kitted out with thunder hammers get expensive quickly. Tacking on a buff character will in most cases turn out to be worth more than the points of the character cost.

 

 

This is very true.  Currently I run a Greenwing list but I may tweak it to include the Knights.  Mind you, I keep thinking that if I'm going Knights I may as well go full DW with Belial and grab a Land Raider for them.  I have the models but I do want to try and make inroads into making an effective mostly Greenwing list.

[aekold]

Currently I am running a green wing as well. My counter assault unit currently consists out of 5 veterans with stormshields en thunderhammer, supported by an interrogator chaplain with jump pack and thunder hammer. They ride in a crusader.

 

Expensive? Yes, but they get the job done. They die just as quickly to most things that kill terminators (autocannons, overcharged plasma, et). THey are however cheaper, move faster and take up less space in the crusader.

[Itsacon]

In the games I've played so far, my lasting impression has been that the Interrogator has taken a serious hit compared to the previous edition, to the point where I'm hesistant to bring him. he only buffs in melee, the Ld penalty is very situational, and his stats are laughable. Only 3 attacks with no easy way to buff it (he's not DW or RW, no matter his loadout, so the RW ancients don't work for him, only EzekielAsmodai). And by the Lion, do I miss the Mace of Redemption... Edited July 25, 2017 by Itsacon

[sneakybamsen]

MoR is missed not just by you. Was it perhaps too god for the points? I personally think so. Will it be back when we get a codex? We can hope it will.

 

Does the interrogator chaplain feel a litter underwhelming? Yes.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

(he's not DW or RW, no matter his loadout, so the ancients don't work for him, only Ezekiel). 

 

The Interrogator Chaplain has, no matter his loadout (yes, even on a bike), the Deathwing keyword, so he does get buffs from the DW Ancient.

 

This being said, I haven't tested him yet. Yes, 3 attacks seems a bit lacking, but I do like the Aura of Dread, at least on paper.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Cpt. Bannockburn

[Chaplain Lucifer]

IMHo at this moment the Interrogator Chaplain is a buff for those squads that roam in front (or sides)  of the main army, away from reach of the other "slower" Characters. That means that the IC will get a jump pack or bike and escort BK's or assault marines.  I know Assault Marines and  BK'sare not top-tier options at the moment, but for those that want to have a go at them, the Chaplain can provide something extra.

 

[G8Keeper]

I've been looking at Asmodai and the Ancient along with Deathwing Knights in a Crusader, +2 attacks re-rolling misses, seems pretty decent to me and I'll probably give it a go see how I fair.  Does Asmodai have the Deathwing keyword?  No index on me at work :(

[aekold]

Asmodai does have the deathwing keyword.

I am not to sold on asmodai due to his lack of a decent CC weapon. Crozius is nice but lacks a real punch. THe blades of reason have no buffs what so ever.

 

I must admit that the 3 attacks from the int chaplain are a bit of a let down.

[BlackTriton]

[...] Edited July 20, 2017 by BlackTriton

[dtse]

You take asmodai purely for the +1 attack. The real issue is getting him there if you deep strike the terminators. So you then have to buy him a transport. I don't think it's worth it tbh.

[Berzul]

You take asmodai purely for the +1 attack. The real issue is getting him there if you deep strike the terminators. So you then have to buy him a transport. I don't think it's worth it tbh.

 

Does he give +1 Attack to everyone, or just Deathwing? I don't have my index here with me to check.

 

If its to everyone, then maybe its worth taking him to pair along some melee veterans (who you already have to carry around in a transport to make use of). If not, then yeah, you have to add the cost of transporting him, so that kind of makes him a less interesting choice.

[Helycon]

He gives all DA infantry and bikers 1 additional attack.

 

A LRC with DWK, a DW Ancient and Asmodai sounds pretty hilarious. You can pretty much kill anything. You have weight of fire from the Crusader and a lot of smacky from the knights with a ton of attacks. Get a charge of and watch stuff die.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Helycon

[dtse]

Only problem is that is a LOT of points to put u to one unit basically that isn't a super heavy. Can get tied down pretty easy, or blocked by chaff. Really does depend on rest of your army. In a vacuum these models are good, but really in the wider game it's just too points inefficient

[Interrogator Stobz]

In a tournament setting I tend to agree, if I were to take DW they would be as cheap as possible with as many bodies as possible. Their place would be to DS onto objectives and hold them against other infantry/monsters (not saying they can't be used for other jobs, but with 5" move and Raiders being redonkulously expensive they sit tight better than they roam).

To do the heavy lifting you need something bigger in the list along with the bodies.

[dtse]

Deep strike them onto the relic and they stand decent chance of holding it for a while. I can see that working. I think putting them in land raider is just s very tempting red herring. Terminators should be used with deep strike. That's almost their only redeeming feature because terminators in general are still over priced

[Skorp]

I was working on a list for a tournament with this exact thing, asmodai, knights, lrc, apothecary, librarian. Ended up swapping out the lrc for a dark talon, asmodai for belial, and the librarian got termy armor.

[Itsacon]

For a Relic mission, scouts are actually better in some regards. Unlike the termies that need first turn to grab it, you can actually deploy the scouts on the Relic straight away (at the start of your deployment, even, scouts now deploy together with everything else), and then just high-tail it back to your own lines straight from turn one.

[oldmanlee]

So i know deathwing are not competitive as such at the moment but I'm going to take them to a couple of local torneys here in the uk soon

 

My question is to anyone who has run them is the apothecary super important?

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

He was consistently very helpful in my games, provided you keep him behind the heavy hitters and don't try to use heroic intervention. 

Other than that, he's pretty durable, with W5 and adds to weight of fire, with a bit of positioning.

 

What I'm still unclear about is if he can heal himself. I've played it without that capability, but he usually healed up or revived a bunch of terminators each game.

 

My way of using him was normally with a deep striking terminator unit, supported by Belial and him, kitted out for shooting. (SBs / AC). Puts pinpoint pressure on whatever you're targeting, with re-rolls and durability by medic.

[oldmanlee]

Ahhh ok my thought was to put him in a crusader with 5 Knights and a banner guy plus belial but if I drop him I can fit in asmodial and then put belial with my deep striking units and roll two crusaders up the board with 5 Knights in each

[aekold]

I am not to sold on the apothecaries. mostly due to the fact that if they fail to revive a model, they spend a turn doing nothing

Edited July 21, 2017 by aekold

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

The most you're missing out on is 4 storm bolter shots. It's not that bad, really. And if you have a need of those shots, there are always CP to re-roll the revive. They're also pretty cheap for their utility. 

 

Of course it's always a tradeoff between survivability and damage output. For my part, I choose survivability and I haven't had cause to regret it yet. OTOH, I can't bring myself to put Asmodai in a pure DW list, and I don't know how I'd have fared without the apothecary. So make of that what you will :)

 

In the games I've had so far, we've also decided that you can't try to revive a model more than once. RAW, there is probably nothing stopping you from doing it, even after the gene seed has already been harvested.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Let's put it this way. If the apothecary doesn't revive (and you can use that CP to do it) he does nothing. But if does not only he heals wounds to nearby squads, but you get an extra model per turn, and in a DW army that can make the difference.  In a 6 turn game, that means a possible 6 guys... when your army has like 20-25 models that's a huge deal!