8th Dark Angels Tactica and Tournament Guide (in progress)

[Itsacon]

Yeah, but remember they're only T5 with 6 wounds. Shoot back with assault cannons and they die quickly.

[dtse]

Despite their points drop they are still over costed and typhoon missile launcher is too expensive I'm afraid. I was all about the speeders originally but as I played more and more they are just too fragile and expensive for what they are

[Interrogator Stobz]

What about One Thunderhawk and Six Dark Talons, and a couple of scouts or something cheap in the Thk...?

 

Can't get 'Flyer role tabled' unless the THk gets killed and quite a lot of dakka for the small stuff too.

Seven drops is risky though..

Edited August 5, 2017 by Interrogator Stobz

[dtse]

I actually have a list with a thunderhawk and 2 fire raptors and scouts lol. I also have a list with thunderhawk and Custodes.....I also have s list with thunderhawk and 15 wulfen....I have lots of lists.

[Frater Cornelius]

I actually have a list with a thunderhawk and 2 fire raptors and scouts lol. I also have a list with thunderhawk and Custodes.....I also have s list with thunderhawk and 15 wulfen....I have lots of lists.

A lot of lists... and a Thunderhawk :D

 

Looking at the ETC tournament, this flyer is incredibly popular. In fact, loads of people are going for extreme low drop lists. 3 Repulsor shenanigans, multiple TH and whatever else you have. I never played against one though. How tough is it to destroy one with your average army?

[Interrogator Stobz]

I faced a number of tough lists at the last tournament, Thawks are really hard to kill without Smite spam.

I only lost it in one game due to going second to Magnus and three Chaos Knights. Facing four Knights was fine, facing other Lords of War was fine, facing hordes was fine.  Add a collection of other planes like Talons with their horde control Hurribolters and bombs of average 5 mortal wounds and they should rock.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Interrogator Stobz

[Frater Cornelius]

Having looked at the rules, I find amusing that given its T9 and 5++, Heavy Bolters will be more effective at bringing it down than LasCannons and Meltas. 7/12 damage from a single LC, not counting high variance given low amount of shots and damage roll (see the Super Heavy thread). A single HB does 1/4 damage at a fraction of the cost, a T-HB being even more cost effective when compared to both a LC and T-LC. S4 stuff is pretty bummed, however.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I tell ya what, the four twin HBs on the THawk hitting on twos do a lot of damage to things, I trusted them much more than the LCs and Hellstikes.

[Frater Cornelius]

I tell ya what, the four twin HBs on the THawk hitting on twos do a lot of damage to things, I trusted them much more than the LCs and Hellstikes.

 

Tough nut to crack, but, speaking from my perspektive, two Repulsors with Captain, Lieutenant and Darkshroud or 1 Repulsor and 2 Dreads will take it down in a few turns. In a vacuum that is. Still, intimidating but manageable. Fight Heavy Bolters with Heavy Bolters as the saying goes :D

[Interrogator Stobz]

Heh heh, in a vacuum: DS dies turn one, and your 18" Gatling cannon can't reach the plane (I think it's a bit undercosted, but I'm not complaining), then it's one Repulsive per turn after that. The BS2+ really helps the plane too especially vs. things with -1 to hit. 3+ is still pretty reasonable.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Interrogator Stobz

[Frater Cornelius]

Heh heh, DS dies turn one, and your 24" heavy bolters can't reach the plane (I think it's a bit undercosted, but I'm not complaining)

 

Yes they can. Besides, this ain't a comparison of who has the better units. You are proud of your flyer. I understand and I do not want to badmouth it. I am just looking at my chances should I meet one.

 

Edit: Wording

Edited August 5, 2017 by Immersturm

[Interrogator Stobz]

Totally not a challenge to anyone's manlymanness mate, but playing the thing I found the opposition had a tonne of trouble getting in range with it taking 12' off peoples range to shoot it, I had to play smart and move carefully but more often than not I succeeded. But that is a big part of the fun of the game, trying to manouver and not just win on dice and math (which has a big place).

So yeah, we probably shouldn't get all but my toy is better than yours, all have their place.

I was editing the first post as you posted, sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Frater Cornelius]

No issues, bud ;)

 

As for the 12", you are forgetting that the Repulsor has Fly. The Dreads will have trouble though, yes. The big Gatling might get there with 30", 18" effectively, given your minimum move and size. Still. I think it comes down to taking down the rest and capping :/

[dtse]

It's similar to my mastodon in terms of hard to kill. I have only ever lost my mastodon in a game once out of maybe 5-6 games with. And that was to a list with 12 lascannons. That list also had 7 twin assault cannons which hardly did anything. So yea these monsters can die but takes a lot of firepower.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I agree some things are just hard to kill dtse.

 

Immer: It's good you mention it, the tactic of killing everything else and going for objectives did other players well, in the spirit of good sportsmanship I mentioned that to a few others so they didn't feel it was a no win situation.

Made for really cool and desperate games, the best kind to me.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Interrogator Stobz

[dtse]

Yea the one big model army doesn't tend to win many games that involve objectives lol

[Gen.Steiner]

Wurgh! This sort of madness is why I don't play in Tournaments :P

However, I can see how a T-hawk would be a... powerful unit!

[Interrogator Stobz]

At 800+ it should be.

 

Now, how can we do well with 'conventional' units?

[dtse]

Dark angels parking lot. Strongest dark angels list pre-codex hands down. The various components of the parking lot may vary but principle of spamming assbacks and strong weaponry all protected by 4+ invuln and dark shroud and wrapped in chaff is just too strong in this edition as it is at the moment

[Interrogator Stobz]

Boring, so just our version of the Roboute parking lot.

 

Humph  :P

[Frater Cornelius]

I know at least one ETC tournament guy was trying DS, Azzy and three Repulsors. No idea if he ended up using it or if it was a joke, but the idea is there. Personally, I am not a fan.

 

But I think therein lies the problem. Most tournament lists are not conventional. Most people do not treat it as a test of skill to see who can pilot an army better, instead most try to cheese the system by bringing FW, run extreme lists with 2-3 drops or the 'old' flyer spam. Personally, I refuse to play such lists. Winning by throwing money at FW when others can not is not healthy competition, neither is trying to cheese the system. But is why conventional lists will always struggle, hence the thread.

 

One solution of sorts would also be to simply improve as a player. No, this is not a stab at OP or anyone. I am simply saying that many games are won and lost by decision making, not dice or lists. Know what units are the most threatening to your particular list, know which units need most protecting in any particular match up, know when to go for the kill and when to play objectives. Simply, play a lot of games and see where that leads. Maybe the troubles with FW will become more manageable the more you play ;)

Edited August 6, 2017 by Immersturm

[Gen.Steiner]

I certainly think that playing lots - practice - does help. However sometimes army composition is a big part of winning and losing; as with my 4th Edition traitor Guard army where each squad, before upgrades, cost 105 points. Carapace armour, +1 WS, re-roll 1s to hit, Iron Discipline and something else as well. I barely ever won a game with them, because at 1,000 and 1,500 points I just couldn't compete.

If you have a bad list, you'll lose, or at least you're much more likely to lose. Case in point: my Iron Warriors the other day; two squads of basic CSM, two squads of Terminators, a sorcerer and a Terminator Lord - nope. Nope. Too many toys, not enough boys.

 

An experienced and good player with a sub-par list might well do better than expected, but an experienced and good player with a good or excellent list can and will obliterate the opposition.

And then there's dice. ;)
 

[Interrogator Stobz]

I had actually held some hope that 8th would be more balanced, I don't know exactly what I was thinking but the honeymoon period where we get to try everything out might last another six months. Again that's me being far far too optimistic, but life is good roll dice.

 

GW might get more brutal on the points adjustment thing, that they have changed a few things in C:SM and C:CSM seems good, but still much more work for them to do there...

 

I'd like tactica threads to be more than list writing advice, is that just me again?

 

:D

stobz

[Gen.Steiner]

I think list writing advice is a big part of any Tactica.

Other than that, I do like to see people's experiences with stuff and how they work on the field.

I mean, it's as a direct result of this thread and the Unit of the Week: Dreadnoughts thread that I've re-written my Deathwing list to add in a Dreadnought or two.

[lhavoc]

One of the cool things we get is Deathwing Apothecaries