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8th Dark Angels Tactica and Tournament Guide (in progress)


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#351
lhavoc

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Even when you can bring them back to life? 🤔

#352
dtse

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You have to roll 4+ to do it so you will fail half the time. And only if you don't have any wounded guys. And they are already expensive then you lump an apothecary or more on them that will literally do nothing half the time. Not a recipe for success. But if you can boss 4 ups then go for it!

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#353
Gen.Steiner

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The real question is, when equipping Deathwing Terminators for close assault, obviously you give one a heavy flamer and chainfist, but what do you give the others? 2 TH/SS and 2 LC, or all TH/SS, or all LCs?



#354
Gen.Steiner

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So I wrote up a 2,000 point (99 power level) Deathwing list - thoughts appreciated. It's in the Dark Angels Army List section. I'd link but my work computer won't let me copy-paste!



#355
Interrogator Stobz

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I just played a 2000pt DA Battle Company list and destroyed some Eldar, he has usually caused me grief but this time I took no vehicles. Excellent move Stobz ;)

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Interrogator with jump pack.

6x full Tactical Squads,all Sgts Combi plasma, 2x Lascan&melta, 2x Plascan&plasgun, 2x Gravcan&plasgun

2x half Assault Squads, Sgts Plaspistol&power sword, 2x flamers

2x full Devastator Squads,each with 2x Lascan and 2x Plascan.
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#356
Helycon

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Why do you reckon this worked better than having vehicles? Seems like you're just waiting for him to come to you though. The only really mobile troops are the Assault Marines and the IC.



#357
dtse

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unless he played wave serpent spam or dark reaper spam, eldar are not that strong. Wraithknight a are waaaaay over priced now. His list has plenty of weapons that just wreck eldar and without wave serpents literally just foot slogging. Be interested to know opponents list

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#358
Interrogator Stobz

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Opponent was not optimal but I was still happy with my infantry parking lot. Damage output was killing stuff at all ranges and resilience was excellent.

He had (something like):
Avatar
Wraithlord
War walkers
Far Seer
Three Waveserpents
Falcon
Banshees, Dragons, etc.

I dropped all but one serpent and one walker, while still having 52 men left.
I may tweak it a bit with a Lt when they are available as non Primaris. And a few more LCs and less PCs.

It's been nice trying new options, except at the top tables there are many options that can win.


Edited by Interrogator Stobz, 13 August 2017 - 02:29 AM.

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#359
Frater Cornelius

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How did your mobility look? Is footslogging more viable now? Also, beware of Hemlocks. That is the new WK, if you ask me Oo

Edited by Frater Cornelius, 13 August 2017 - 05:18 AM.

Be excellent to one another, and lean on your brothers and sisters when your patience grows slim

 


#360
Interrogator Stobz

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I didn't really need to be mobile, I outranged him so he came to me.
Haven't faced a Hemlock in 8th, why are they so dangerous?

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#361
Brother-Captain Sharp

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Few different reasons combine to make them quite good:
They can move 80" when they advance.
Their weapons are assault, and automatically hit as they are Heavy D-scythes. They get 2D3 shots total, which can put some massive hurt out.
They have Spirit Stones.
They have a -1Ld bubble.

Most importantly though: they are psykers, and can cast Conceal on themselves.

All in all, it is a very durable, high wound output model that has insane flexibility.

Edited by Brother-Captain Sharp, 13 August 2017 - 09:11 AM.

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#362
lhavoc

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A lot of talk is about horde armies (Tyrannids, Orcs, etc) being really viable in 8th. So what about Whirlwinds? Templates and Scatter Dice are no longer a problem, artillery hits where you put it, indirect fire is a reality, so you can hide and shoot, and we may anticipate a stratagem like Space Marines where we can use Landspeeders as spotters. Is massed artillery fire the solution for hoard armies?

#363
Interrogator Stobz

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Do the math on the Whirlwinds options, they are not good at actual damage output. 2D6 shots have a tonne of variance but will average 8(7.5). They will hit with 5(4.95), they will wound T3 with 4(4.16), if the hordes have crap armour and/or are in cover and save at 5+ they will take 3(2.73) casualties, so maybe 9 points of dead conscripts for your 100ish point Death dealing monster of doom.

Over 6 turns, 54 points earned back.

 

TL/DR: They suck more now. GW, please change these, please.


They should get D6+6 shots imho.


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#364
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I think artillery is a bit of a trap to be honest.  Maybe guard can make it work, but not as the sole point of the army.  They are cheap enough for Guard to run as a detachment, along with some other parts (Like Brandon Grant's list that won BAO).  For marines, I think it's lacklustre,  and you really have to dig into Forgeworld to even make it semi viable (which might not be an option due to cost, availability of models, or local comps that ban or limit FW).

 

As stobz says, they seem impressive, and ability to hit anything without LOS is so tempting, but if you math it, it's not that good, and if you play it, you will see it backs up the math.  My own list for example, not scared at all about artilery, I will happily sit there and just kill the rest of the army and leave the immobile artillery maybe plinking a few wounds off every turn. And other than that, it is doing nothing. Its not getting objectives (other than the one you probably placed in your own zone) and it requires an investment in bubble wrapping (or else a single 70 point eversor will ruin your day).

 

The FW whirlwind variants are probably the best artillery that marines have access to if you are gonna do it.  Quad mortars aren't bad, but i'd rather take heavy bolters on a razorback and have it mobile and be able to transport troops.  thats my 2 cents on artillery


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#365
Frater Cornelius

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Would they be better if DA would get a similar Stratagem as SM, Datalink Telesomething. 1CP if any Land Speeder (keyword) is within 12" of an enemy and has LoS, then the WW hits automatically. I suppose SM still have an edge because of LSS, but RW may get something to make Speeders more viable. In the worst case you could use a DS as a spotter.

Be excellent to one another, and lean on your brothers and sisters when your patience grows slim

 


#366
dtse

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tbh, we probably will get a lot of similar strategems.  The SM strats, are mostly replicated in Chaos codex, and grey knights has a lot of similar ones too


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#367
Interrogator Stobz

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Still not impressed even with the strategem, how long can you keep a Speeder within 12" of something, one maybe two turns in a game. That equates to another fourish dead conscripts for sacrificing a speeder... Not for me thanks ;)

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#368
dtse

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Yea. There's a lot better things to spend CP on in that book

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#369
Frater Cornelius

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Yea. There's a lot better things to spend CP on in that book

 

There aren't that many useful things, to be fair. Most are highly dependent on army composition.


Be excellent to one another, and lean on your brothers and sisters when your patience grows slim

 


#370
Interrogator Stobz

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Rerolls are better than most of it imho, but some units can really use them at times, remembering mid game would be hard for me.


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#371
dtse

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There are some really good ones for sure but a lot are mediocre. I just use the strategem cards and put them in the table for the ones I might want to use so I don't forget.

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#372
Gen.Steiner

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I don't really rate the Whirlwind any more, or many of the indirect fire artillery weapons, but if you can re-roll them, or you have several of them, or you're Guard, then they get better. All the times I've faced them this edition they've seemed lacklustre - except the Manticore.



#373
Frater Cornelius

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Well, indirect shooting is pretty good against hidden units that also fire indirectly or scoring units.


Be excellent to one another, and lean on your brothers and sisters when your patience grows slim

 


#374
Solrac

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Hey guys,

 

Been super busy at work the last month or so.

 

Things should hopefully get back to normal next week and I can keep updating this guide.

 

If anyone has some info on the new Priamris units that haven't been reviewed yet please reply so I can update it.



#375
Grand Master Raziel

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I have a question: what works for people against Imperial Guard?  I tried to build a tailored anti-Guard list, and I still got tabled by turn 5 by my Guard playing friend.

 

Yeah, regular Whirlwinds underwhelm.  As far as damage outputs go, assault cannon Razorbacks reliably put out a lot more shots per turn, and are cheaper.  All Whirlwinds have going for them is range.

 

The Forge World Relic Whirlwind Scorpius isn't bad though.  3d3 shots and it can fire twice when it doesn't move.  Lacks the range of the vanilla Whirlwinds, but still a useful 48".


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