New Death Guard in 8th edition

[Commissar K.]

Double Daemon Prince with double Drone and Warp Time is on my mind for a while. Toss in a Herald for sweet S7 Flamers and I think a cheap fast and hard hitting module is made.

[Dallas Drake]

So, I had great success with Death Guard this weekend.

 

I beat Space Marines and IG. The Space Marine game wasn't anything to write home about, his army wasn't great and he called it turn 3 when he realised he had no way to stop my Knight or Poxwalkers. The IG game though, wow!

 

I took;

Typhus

Noxious Blightbringer

Plaguecaster

4 x 20 Poxwalkers

1 x 10 Poxwalkers

2 x Decimators with dual C-beams

1 x Predator with lascannons sponsons and autocannon

1 x Knight with dual gatling cannons & stormspear pod

 

He took;

Commisar Lord

3 x 50 Conscripts (with commisars/junior officers)

3 x Wyverns

3 x Leman Russ (one was Pask)

2 x Basalisks

1 x Medusa

1 x Hydra

 

Bascially, it came down to a grueling fight over the centre of the board, Conscripts with FRFSRF are sick, 200 shots were hitting my Poxwalkers and if it wasn't for their poor BS and Typus buffing them up to T4, & the 5+ DR they'd have gone down much faster. By turn 4 I was ahead in VPs by 10-9 but was about to score 2+D3 so he called it there, it was also 2am!

 

IG did kill the Knight but it was the Poxwalkers who just wouldn't die. He wiped out a whole unit of 20 and the 10 man I had camping an objective, but the other 60 just kept coming and adding to their ranks. The Decimators took out around 1 tank a turn (conversion beams at long range - 48"+ - are very good anti tank) and that with the Predator and Knight's missile/gatling cannons was able to deal with the IG armour reasonably well. In fact, with the -1 to hit and them degrading by turn 3 he wasn't hitting much, even with Pask who is BS2+.

 

Overall a really enjoyable game but wow at the resiliance of Death Guard. Also, popping mortal wounds onto every unit and using Typhus' special rule and Smite helped to thin his ranks massively, not to be understimated at all. Plague Wind was absolutely brutal against the conscript blobs, each turn I was killing 8-10. A very good power to use on large units. I kept casting Miasma of Pestilence on the Knight which really helped to keep it ailve for 4 turns.

[Azekai]

Good to hear! I love plague wind. One of the few true anti-horde abilities in the game, and it belongs to the Death Guard! Hooray.

If we bring forgeworld to the table, I think Chaos (and DG in particular) have the potential to be very strong indeed.

[bozo69pd]

Good to hear your games went well. I have mostly enjoyed my DG lists lately as well, but so far I am mostly seeing Typhus + zombies + blight drone(s) is good. I think I need to convert my plague drones into blight drones. I am thinking about having a tactic for my next game to be:

 

1. move zombies and drones up the board.

2. drop Typhus in position to hurt things + buff zombies

3. Have Typhus summon a herald to buff all the drones shots to S7

 

Every game I have played so far I just end up saying wow I wish I had more zombies. Maybe add a forgeworld leviathan. I want to see how a leviathan and a knight do against each other.

[Prot]

Dallas, thanks for the feedback.

 

I wanted to ask you about the conscripts. I had a game against IG almost identical in design to yours. I was playing a full tilt World Eater list (this was before I posted my DG batrep in this thread). Anyway, I had a good list for World Eaters including cultists and cheap bloodletters.

 

I had a brutal time of the conscripts. The World Eaters ended up folding like a cheap tent. What I have to know is how on earth did you get past the 'free' retreat????

 

Every time I assaulted, I took hundreds of overwatch shots. Every time our fight phase would end,the conscripts would simply walk away and "Get Back In The Fight" and between that and first rank Fire second rank Fire, I would take another couple hundred shots, then once again in assault. It was absolutely brutal and so time consuming.

 

How by Mortarion's trusty rusty reaper did you live through that? I mean I was even losing a few hullpoints a tur off of Landraiders from the sheer number of flashlights, never mind the IG parking lot I never got close to.

 

On a side note the army is very fun. Unfortunately I cling to stuff like plague marines for flavour but it's fun to play.

[Dallas Drake]

Dallas, thanks for the feedback.

 

I wanted to ask you about the conscripts. I had a game against IG almost identical in design to yours. I was playing a full tilt World Eater list (this was before I posted my DG batrep in this thread). Anyway, I had a good list for World Eaters including cultists and cheap bloodletters.

 

I had a brutal time of the conscripts. The World Eaters ended up folding like a cheap tent. What I have to know is how on earth did you get past the 'free' retreat????

 

Every time I assaulted, I took hundreds of overwatch shots. Every time our fight phase would end,the conscripts would simply walk away and "Get Back In The Fight" and between that and first rank Fire second rank Fire, I would take another couple hundred shots, then once again in assault. It was absolutely brutal and so time consuming.

 

How by Mortarion's trusty rusty reaper did you live through that? I mean I was even losing a few hullpoints a tur off of Landraiders from the sheer number of flashlights, never mind the IG parking lot I never got close to.

 

On a side note the army is very fun. Unfortunately I cling to stuff like plague marines for flavour but it's fun to play.

 

IG conscripts are insane, but they're not unbeatable. I consider his list to be pretty damn good, he lost both games he played but with some tweaking to get the 1st turn (dropping Pask & taking squads of tanks) I think he might have a competitive worthy list there.

The conscripts being able to effectively ignore morale is insane, at first I was like !? But one thing to remember is that the DG ability Typhus causes makes 'every' unit within 7" to take a mortal wound on a 4+ that includes commissars, junior officers, and commissar lords as well as units of conscripts; hurting the things buffing the conscript blobs is useful. Taking out his ability to ignore morale or pass orders is something you need to try to do, admittedly I only managed to do it by turn 4 but it still shook him up a bit that I 'could' do it. Tbh I found Plague Wind, Smite and Nurgle's Gift did incredible work adding to the growing pile of dead conscripts. To that effect, getting my units close was my major focus and the Blightbringer helped massively there.

 

 

As for Get back in the fight - Yes, it's hard to accept they can do that, it's so unbelievably good and the only way I was able to take it was via weight of numbers, I sent 80 poxwalkers at him, all with S4/T4 and a 5++ thanks to Typhus. The Blightbringer had them moving around 10" so soon I was close to him, he actually made a mistake moving up to get within 12" so he could use FRFSRF to shoot me 200 times with both blobs. He wiped out one 20 man squad and the 10 man camping an objective, but BS5+ S3 did not shift the poxwalkers. Instead of assaulting with the poxwalkers (as they were down to about 50% starting strength) I kept using the Knight to multi assault two blobs at once so that it took the overwatch, usually resulting in a wound or two. Then I sent the poxwalkers in, once they were in combat they were able to kill around 5-10 conscripts per unit (2 attacks base is alright at S4) and regenerate new models, that kept them at around 50-75% strength for the remainder of the game. As the combat dragged on I was slowly wearing him down, admittedly at the expesnse of my Knight that was taking buckets of wounds that would otherwise have been put on the poxwalkers.

 

I'm not sure what you could do with lower model counts, MEQs are in a bad place full stop and against this I can't see a way through? The only idea I have is to charge with something that can take the overwatch fire first.

 

 

Good to hear your games went well. I have mostly enjoyed my DG lists lately as well, but so far I am mostly seeing Typhus + zombies + blight drone(s) is good. I think I need to convert my plague drones into blight drones. I am thinking about having a tactic for my next game to be:

 

1. move zombies and drones up the board.

2. drop Typhus in position to hurt things + buff zombies

3. Have Typhus summon a herald to buff all the drones shots to S7

 

Every game I have played so far I just end up saying wow I wish I had more zombies. Maybe add a forgeworld leviathan. I want to see how a leviathan and a knight do against each other.

 

Sounds like a good plan. In all my games I've walked Typhus up the board but he is slow.

I've not used bloat drones yet as I prefer some longer range shooting to back my poxwalkers up but I would not leave home without at least 80 poxwalkers now.

 

 

Good to hear! I love plague wind. One of the few true anti-horde abilities in the game, and it belongs to the Death Guard! Hooray.

 

If we bring forgeworld to the table, I think Chaos (and DG in particular) have the potential to be very strong indeed.

 

Agreed. Although I feel DG are stronger than CSM right now, I don't know how I would've managed without Disgustingly Resiliant.

Plague Wind is so good against all the blobs of infantry we're now seeing. Overall I think Contagion are a group of really superb powers, Miasma of Pestilence is fantastic on a big target like a Knight but I think it'll also be briliant on the Terminators we get in the new codex.

[bozo69pd]

Dallas not to mention Nurgle Psykers can HEAL other nurgle daemon units. I was using a nurgle DP purely for following my blight drone around healing it. Lol healbot I love it.

 

In regards to the hundreds of overwatch shots conscripts put out, you just have to charge a helbrute or something similarly durable yet expendable in first before your MEQ

 

Still trying to figure out the sweet spot for how many drones to take, because they can get some work done but yeah their range is slow. In one game a Eldar player flew 2 jets into my back field and killed 20/21 of my havocs on the first turn. My blight drone immediately killed both jets all by itself. I was thrilled!

[Azekai]

In regards to the hundreds of overwatch shots conscripts put out, you just have to charge a helbrute or something similarly durable yet expendable in first before your MEQ

I think the problem is you can get off the initial charge using some battering ram unit like a helbrute or maulerfiend, but after that guard are under no obligation to stay locked. The conscripts will back up, take an order, and then start shooting whoever you don't want them to shoot on their turn, and get their overwatch shots all over again on your next turn. 

 

Best way to stop this vicious cycle is by destroying whoever is giving the orders and chopping the head off the snake. Typhus isn't a bad choice for that sweet mortal wound aura (just like Dallas Drake said), and other psykers can pick up Infernal Gaze for sniping out officers and commissars (Smite works too but I feel like the enemy has to horribly misposition for it to go off on the right units, but it can help if the enemy is foolish enough to 'heroically' intervene in the butchery).

 

Incidentally, does Chaos get access to snipers? I can't think of any in the basic index, but since I generally limit myself to DG I could have easily overlooked something.

[Prot]

The thing to consider is that overwatch in the volume of 100's will give you a fistful of wounds no matter what you charge in. I too 4 on a landraider. And as mentioned the conscripts just walk away and lace into you. That combined with being unbreakable is just super strong.

 

I have not faced IG with my DG. I think my affection for plague marines makes it a bad matchup.

[Lagrath]

You can't cast -1 to hit on knights, they are not death guard

[Sception]

 

In regards to the hundreds of overwatch shots conscripts put out, you just have to charge a helbrute or something similarly durable yet expendable in first before your MEQ

I think the problem is you can get off the initial charge using some battering ram unit like a helbrute or maulerfiend, but after that guard are under no obligation to stay locked. The conscripts will back up, take an order, and then start shooting whoever you don't want them to shoot on their turn, and get their overwatch shots all over again on your next turn. 

 

Best way to stop this vicious cycle is by destroying whoever is giving the orders and chopping the head off the snake. Typhus isn't a bad choice for that sweet mortal wound aura (just like Dallas Drake said), and other psykers can pick up Infernal Gaze for sniping out officers and commissars (Smite works too but I feel like the enemy has to horribly misposition for it to go off on the right units, but it can help if the enemy is foolish enough to 'heroically' intervene in the butchery).

 

Incidentally, does Chaos get access to snipers? I can't think of any in the basic index, but since I generally limit myself to DG I could have easily overlooked something.

 

 

FW astra militarum renegades & heretics gets you marauders, who are like... 35?  40ish points?  Plus an elite slot, for a pair of BS 3+ sniper rifles in a squad of 5 dudes with 5+ armor, +1 save in cover, and -1 to hit for enemy units targeting them in the shooting phase.

 

They're the only chaos snipers I'm currently aware of.

[bozo69pd]

 

In regards to the hundreds of overwatch shots conscripts put out, you just have to charge a helbrute or something similarly durable yet expendable in first before your MEQ

I think the problem is you can get off the initial charge using some battering ram unit like a helbrute or maulerfiend, but after that guard are under no obligation to stay locked. The conscripts will back up, take an order, and then start shooting whoever you don't want them to shoot on their turn, and get their overwatch shots all over again on your next turn. 

 

Best way to stop this vicious cycle is by destroying whoever is giving the orders and chopping the head off the snake. Typhus isn't a bad choice for that sweet mortal wound aura (just like Dallas Drake said), and other psykers can pick up Infernal Gaze for sniping out officers and commissars (Smite works too but I feel like the enemy has to horribly misposition for it to go off on the right units, but it can help if the enemy is foolish enough to 'heroically' intervene in the butchery).

 

Incidentally, does Chaos get access to snipers? I can't think of any in the basic index, but since I generally limit myself to DG I could have easily overlooked something.

 

I see, then the only other thing I can think of is to block the sides with tanks then deep strike suicide units around that blob (mutilators come to mind) and then have them run. If you can get an inch away then the conscripts cannot flee through your models and will remain locked in combat right?

 

Also for snipers, can't R&H use ratlings from the AM codex?

[Angrypantz]

Has anyone used Soul Grinders and Furies yet? With the mark of burgle the gain DR. The furies make units that fail Morale checks loose an extra model and they can get the buffs from Heralds.

[MoGuy]

Hey guys, so I'll probably pick up Death Guard as my next army and I have some questions.

 

1. I've read that a lot of people footslog their army. Is that viable? My first incentive would have been to get some Rhinos since the Plague Marines are so slow.

 

2. Is there anything we struggle against (tanks, TEQs, hordes?) and is there anything our army is particularly good against?

 

3. We have some ways to decrease LD. Be it the effect from Bell Boy or the Icon of Despair. Both are short ranged, however, so to capitalise on those effects a close combat unit would be best suited. Have you tried using the debuffs and if so with which units?

[Charlo]

Has anyone used Soul Grinders and Furies yet? With the mark of burgle the gain DR. The furies make units that fail Morale checks loose an extra model and they can get the buffs from Heralds.

 

Just stumbled across Furies myself in the index!

 

12" move, 5++, 5+++, S4 and 2A isn't too bad - the extra casualties from battleshock has a nice bit of synergy with DG Ld debuffs too!

 

Quite a nice first wave with Nurglings for sure.

 

Any good ideas for what to use as Fury models? I'm looking at the Vampire counts range...

[Sception]

 

Also for snipers, can't R&H use ratlings from the AM codex?

 

Nope.

[Angrypantz]

 

 

Has anyone used Soul Grinders and Furies yet? With the mark of burgle the gain DR. The furies make units that fail Morale checks loose an extra model and they can get the buffs from Heralds.

Just stumbled across Furies myself in the index!

 

12" move, 5++, 5+++, S4 and 2A isn't too bad - the extra casualties from battleshock has a nice bit of synergy with DG Ld debuffs too!

 

Quite a nice first wave with Nurglings for sure.

 

Any good ideas for what to use as Fury models? I'm looking at the Vampire counts range...

I would be tempted to use ghouls with a wire frame to make tiny wing-a-lings and sculpt them with green stuff.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Couple of things on the Conscript issue.

 

1. Charge with Rhinos if you can... at least one should survive to lock them. Then follow with a couple units of Spawn or a Scourge Defiler in the same Charge Phase.

 

2. Advance 3 Bloat Drones and splatter them with 6D6 Plaguespitter hits, wounding on 2's, rerolling. Then charge with something that has been slingshotted forward with Warptime.

 

3. Renegade Wyverns.

 

4. 3 Hell Talons with Pyrax Bombs. Goodbye, Mr. Bond. Between bombs and shooting (remember they can shoot 360, so can hit after they fly over), you may clear a whole 50 man squad in a single turn. Then they can hunt tanks.

 

5. Hellforged Predator with Infernal Hellstorm Cannon, 2 Heavy Flamers, and a Combi-Flamer. Slingshot forward with Warptime. Yell "TROGDOOOOR!!!" at the top of your lungs and burn them with 5D6 hits. Charge in with Hate-Fuelled Rampage and recoup some lost overwatch wounds with Machina Malefica. Repeat until killed. Tank should cost just under 200 points if my math is right. Why not use 2 or 3 and have the non-Warptimable ones Advance and Smoke first turn?

 

6. Plague Wind, as stated Previously

 

7. (Because there HAS to be 7!!!) Renegade Quad Launchers

[Azekai]

I like the blight drone spam idea... they can output fair 0few wounds, but then again, all those bight drones are still far more expensive than the horde they are attempting to kill. 
 

 

Any good ideas for what to use as Fury models? I'm looking at the Vampire counts range...

 

I am considering picking up some Kings of War gargoyles to represent my furies. Even if the feminine bodies aren't your jam, the winged shoulders and tails are separate from the rest of the chest and torso so you could just stick on zombies or...

Actually I might just do winged zombies. That sounds bizarre and kinda fun.

[Ashe Darke]

I run 3 drones and they upset people immensely. Normally zip up and take huge chunks out of units and then don't charge. Maybe put -1 to hit on one.

 

Then when they fail at killing in shooting you can overwatch them with auto hits, fall back and do it again!

[bozo69pd]

I have seen people put zombie heads on tyranid gargoyles to make furies that seem good.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I like the blight drone spam idea... they can output fair 0few wounds, but then again, all those bight drones are still far more expensive than the horde they are attempting to kill. 

 

 

Any good ideas for what to use as Fury models? I'm looking at the Vampire counts range...

 

I am considering picking up some Kings of War gargoyles to represent my furies. Even if the feminine bodies aren't your jam, the winged shoulders and tails are separate from the rest of the chest and torso so you could just stick on zombies or...

 

Actually I might just do winged zombies. That sounds bizarre and kinda fun.

 

Yes, the drones are more expensive, but that's 30 wounds that the enemy has to chew through.....that can also double as anti-aircraft because they have auto-hit weapons and can charge via FLY.....and they can also do decently against some other targets. They also tend to blow up good when finally killed.

[Dallas Drake]

Good catch @Lagrath I didn't notice that, keywords have me a little confused tbh.

 

I like the blight drone spam idea... they can output fair 0few wounds, but then again, all those bight drones are still far more expensive than the horde they are attempting to kill. 
 

 

Any good ideas for what to use as Fury models? I'm looking at the Vampire counts range...

 

I am considering picking up some Kings of War gargoyles to represent my furies. Even if the feminine bodies aren't your jam, the winged shoulders and tails are separate from the rest of the chest and torso so you could just stick on zombies or...

Actually I might just do winged zombies. That sounds bizarre and kinda fun.

 

Yes but the conscripts really need to choose either the drones or the poxwalkwers. My opponent was throwing a tub of 50 dice four times for most of the game but they don't do a lot of damage really. I'd have to do the maths (did it quick in my head, prob do 2-3 wounds on a drone) but they wouldn't kill a drone in one shooting phase from what I've seen on the table top.

 

 

Hey guys, so I'll probably pick up Death Guard as my next army and I have some questions.

 

1. I've read that a lot of people footslog their army. Is that viable? My first incentive would have been to get some Rhinos since the Plague Marines are so slow.

 

2. Is there anything we struggle against (tanks, TEQs, hordes?) and is there anything our army is particularly good against?

 

3. We have some ways to decrease LD. Be it the effect from Bell Boy or the Icon of Despair. Both are short ranged, however, so to capitalise on those effects a close combat unit would be best suited. Have you tried using the debuffs and if so with which units?

 

I have used footslogging only, not tried rhinos. I don't think either or is better or worse than the other. More bodies probably evens out for the rhino. If you need somewhere safe to keep plague marines then it doesn't seem like a bad option tbh, go with a combi plasma and havoc and you have a decent dakka base too. Personally I don't see much of a role for PMs right now so I would rather just have another 20 poxwalkers rather than 5 PMs with blightlaunchers, I've used PMs in a few games and they were meh, didn't die but didn't kill much either.

 

From what I've seen DG struggle if they can't get close or into melee (esp poxwalker builds), we're slow so a Blighbringer (prob two) are essential if you footslog. I haven't done mech but rhinos are solid so there's that. We excel at overwhelming the enemy, the damage DG can do close up is quite impressive, between Plague Wind, Typhus, Smite and other tricks a DG army can fart out a lot of moral wounds which can hurt the enemy if they're not expecting it.

 

The debuffs tend to buff the whole army, poxwalkers in particular tend to enjoy killing stuff in melee since it replenishes their ranks. I haven't used any dedicated melee and I've done really well in combat with DG.

 

 

 

 

In regards to the hundreds of overwatch shots conscripts put out, you just have to charge a helbrute or something similarly durable yet expendable in first before your MEQ

I think the problem is you can get off the initial charge using some battering ram unit like a helbrute or maulerfiend, but after that guard are under no obligation to stay locked. The conscripts will back up, take an order, and then start shooting whoever you don't want them to shoot on their turn, and get their overwatch shots all over again on your next turn. 

Best way to stop this vicious cycle is by destroying whoever is giving the orders and chopping the head off the snake. Typhus isn't a bad choice for that sweet mortal wound aura (just like Dallas Drake said), and other psykers can pick up Infernal Gaze for sniping out officers and commissars (Smite works too but I feel like the enemy has to horribly misposition for it to go off on the right units, but it can help if the enemy is foolish enough to 'heroically' intervene in the butchery).

Incidentally, does Chaos get access to snipers? I can't think of any in the basic index, but since I generally limit myself to DG I could have easily overlooked something.

 

 

FW astra militarum renegades & heretics gets you marauders, who are like... 35?  40ish points?  Plus an elite slot, for a pair of BS 3+ sniper rifles in a squad of 5 dudes with 5+ armor, +1 save in cover, and -1 to hit for enemy units targeting them in the shooting phase.

 

They're the only chaos snipers I'm currently aware of.

 

 

Can we add a unit of these into a DG or Heretic Astartes army, they'd make a cheap objective camper that could try to snipe out characters. Plus the modelling conversions are limitless!

[Bulwyf]

I just have to ask: how are you guys getting any use out of the poxwalkers? they move slow, they can't shoot, I don't even know if they can save with their stats. I know you can enhance them with Typhus or the new elites but how do you actually get something out of them in combat?

[Dallas Drake]

I just have to ask: how are you guys getting any use out of the poxwalkers? they move slow, they can't shoot, I don't even know if they can save with their stats. I know you can enhance them with Typhus or the new elites but how do you actually get something out of them in combat?

 

Depends on the mission deployment too. They only move 4" which is woefully slow so you need a Noxious Blightbringer or two to get 2 dice pick the highest advance. I was getting 8-10" move with them most turns, ocassional meh of 6" or whatever but they can be in combat by turn 3. Turn 2 if your opponent closes to double-tap range thinking he can do more damage than he really can or if they have to send troops onto an objective. Also, I suggest you take 80+ minimum at 2K so that you can afford to lose half of them. Once they make combat they soon regenerate dead members and are tough to shift. Typhus is a must in some capacity for the S & T4. T4 and a 5+DR save is not bad either tbh. Plus they're 2A base so they can do some killing once they get there.