GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 So from what I'm seeing from unit entries and battle reports, it looks like DG is solid on defense and on anti-elite. But it seems that they are severally lacking in mobility, and perhaps more importantly, ranged firepower. They get T5, DR, plague weapons, and good access to power weapons, but do these make up for less bodies, an extra turn or two to get into close combat, and a lack of efficient ways to spam special or heavy weapons? Plague marines are nice for MSU plasma spam, but they die to overheats just as easily. Same with Blight Lords and Combi plasma. There's no way to take a large amount of heavy weapons beyond the usual predator. Nice special like blight launchers are good AV, but not enough to handle heavy armor lists. Their various plague flamers are better than regular ones, but it looks like they'll need it as they don't have enough models in general to let regular bolters and other small arms take care of hordes. Being forced to take a flamer unit will give them an edge against hordes, but drag them down for all comers. They have a ton of nice powerful abilities, but it really seems like they are going to need them. In short, DG seems to be great vs low model count elite armies, and against fast CC armies forced to charge them. But it seems like it will have a hard time bringing enough firepower to deal with large amounts of Armor, hordes, or even just MeQs. And it will still lose to dedicated heavy CC armies that can bring a lot of bodies (Berzerkers.) Thoughts? I am sure once all of their new units are released you're going to see the lack in "ranged" support go away. The Plaguecrawler is receiving quite a bit of optimism and I'm sure it's going to fit in right where the "ranged" lack is for DG. Predators are decent ranged fire power for any CSM army let alone DG. I think the elite theme will work out well for DG. Plague Wind, the Suppurating Plate, Mortarion, Curse of the Leper, and Blightlords with Combi-Bolters should all help deal with Hordes. The Bloat Drones aren't too bad for that task either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 We can also throw 10 2d6 S3/4 grenades re-rolling to wound, and re-rolling 1s to hit. That is also an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 My bad, my miscalculation lay in me thinking the surgeon had a plague sword and didn't know the hauler had the third weapon. I was close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 I need to see how big and integrated Mortarions head is. I want to replace it for my Sanguinius, but I feel like he is massive. Also has the Helbrute thing been figured out, for FW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Legionnaire Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 I need to see how big and integrated Mortarions head is. I want to replace it for my Sanguinius, but I feel like he is massive. Also has the Helbrute thing been figured out, for FW? What do you mean? The FW contemptor and leviathan Dreads have both been given the helbrute keyword.. I bet we can all figure out the reasoning behind this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 I know, but wasn't there an issue with the Legion Trait only applying to the Helbrute unit because it specified the Unit and not the Keyword? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Yes it's only Helbrutes as a unit and not Keyword so until GW FAQ it the FW dreads can't benefit from the trait even with the Helbrute keywords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Description of the Demon Prince in the lore explicitly mentions wings, so it looks like the points omission is an oversight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyslugger Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 What is the general view on the deathshroud? I like the models, but they appear (to me anyway) as too much of a point sink. No doubt they will hit hard in combat.....if and when they get there. Also, looking online it doesn't appear that you get too many extra bits in the kit. I am about to head over to drop the kids at karate and pick up my morty....do I buy the deathshroud or give them a miss for now???? Choices, choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 The consensus is overwhelmingly that they are too pricey for what they do. They cost more points per wound than any character in the book, and while their damage output is great in cc, their small unit size and short-range weaponry limit their capabilities. If they deep strike, they're forced to hail mary a charge or they'll just get kited all game. Blightlords are just as tough for far less, and can unleash a hail of firepower when they arrive, so there's little danger of them being kited and made useless. Deathshroud can absorb wounds for Morty at the start of a game to keep him alive from overwhelming firepower, but then they're going to be useless for the rest of the game. Costly investment. In an ideal game, they could deep strike down as Mortarion is about to hit enemy lines, and with a bunch of fast moving threats around (Drones, Mortarion, etc) they should be able to get a charge in at some point. There is a 0% chance they're going to be better for their points than Blightlords though. You could put them in a Land Raider, but that would be an extraordinarily expensive unit and still suffers from 'not Blightlord' syndrome. If you're happy with a unit of overpriced Terminators that can possibly keep a few wounds off Morty in a pinch, these are your guys. The models are, however, stunning. I am buying some purely for that reason, and I suppose I could use one as a Lord of Contagion if I wanted. They are essentially monopose though, with only an extra belly plate/set of shoulders and some spare heads allowing you to differentiate your models. Whether or not this makes them a no-go depends purely on personal taste. It would certainly make creating an individualised unit of 6 a royal pain in the ass. Of course, the disclaimer here is that people might found them great once we all actually get some games in. If you love the models I'd recommend buying them, but if you're purchasing based on tabletop use and are on a budget, I'd give them a miss at the moment. Wait for Blightlords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominikB Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Description of the Demon Prince in the lore explicitly mentions wings, so it looks like the points omission is an oversight. They have the option on the data sheet :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Description of the Demon Prince in the lore explicitly mentions wings, so it looks like the points omission is an oversight. They have the option on the data sheet Yes, but there's no *points cost* associated anywhere. 1 power, sure, but nowhere do they list the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Description of the Demon Prince in the lore explicitly mentions wings, so it looks like the points omission is an oversight. They have the option on the data sheet Yes, but there's no *points cost* associated anywhere. 1 power, sure, but nowhere do they list the points. I don't know why this is such a hangup, because I have seen people discussing this ad nauseam on other sites. How different is the DG daemon prince from the daemon Index entry for the daemon prince? Just use the listed cost for wings there. One typo isn't some insurmountable problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TasadarMadBear Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Description of the Demon Prince in the lore explicitly mentions wings, so it looks like the points omission is an oversight.They have the option on the data sheet Yes, but there's no *points cost* associated anywhere. 1 power, sure, but nowhere do they list the points. I don't know why this is such a hangup, because I have seen people discussing this ad nauseam on other sites. How different is the DG daemon prince from the daemon Index entry for the daemon prince? Just use the listed cost for wings there. One typo isn't some insurmountable problem. I think the question is whether the error was not putting the point cost for a winged dp in the back list, or whether having the options for wings on the datasheet was a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Description of the Demon Prince in the lore explicitly mentions wings, so it looks like the points omission is an oversight.They have the option on the data sheet Yes, but there's no *points cost* associated anywhere. 1 power, sure, but nowhere do they list the points.I don't know why this is such a hangup, because I have seen people discussing this ad nauseam on other sites. How different is the DG daemon prince from the daemon Index entry for the daemon prince? Just use the listed cost for wings there. One typo isn't some insurmountable problem. I think the question is whether the error was not putting the point cost for a winged dp in the back list, or whether having the options for wings on the datasheet was a mistake. That also seems like a nonstarter. Which is more likely: that a points cost was omitted (as has been done in the past from the indexes)? Or that a listed option also referenced in the fluff has been stricken from the codex intentionally? I will bet my army on the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyslugger Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Well I managed to withstand the impulse purchase of the Deathshroud earlier and have now assembled Mortarian (minus wings as I shall paint those and the model separately). My son and I decided to run three little 1 vs 1 with Girlyman and Morty..........Morty walked over him each time. First one we started from 24 inches away and used full psychic and shooting phases. Second was toe to toe no shooting or psychic with Morty hitting first and the final one was toe to toe with no psychic/shooting and Girlyman swinging first. Gilryman got up once (might change if we use stratagems and so forth) but went back down again. He used the Emp's Sword to attack for the mortal wounds and I just used reaping scythe. The final two battles we didn't use the Host of Plagues either. Lowest I got was 11 wounds, which still enabled me to swing at full power. The reaping scythe is fab, 18 attacks (plus all the extra for death to the false emperor) saw me sending out 22 - 26 attacks. That is the first time I have managed to bring him down....much to my sons shock. I know Morty is more points but it was just fun to try it out (we often do little 1 vs 1 as my son is only 9) and its the first time I have managed to beat him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Hey there, my diseased friends. I'm just giving you a heads up that I'll be locking this thread soon-ish. It's better and easier to find things if there are more smaller threads than a few mega-threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 How about no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TasadarMadBear Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Why are all the threads getting locked? They locked the DG community thread too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Basically just saying, start new threads with more specific topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Yeah, instead of having one giant thread with dozens of pages and as many different topics being discussed, start new threads with specific subjects so it's easier to find what you to read up on or discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 The consensus is overwhelmingly that they are too pricey for what they do. They cost more points per wound than any character in the book, and while their damage output is great in cc, their small unit size and short-range weaponry limit their capabilities. If they deep strike, they're forced to hail mary a charge or they'll just get kited all game. Blightlords are just as tough for far less, and can unleash a hail of firepower when they arrive, so there's little danger of them being kited and made useless. Deathshroud can absorb wounds for Morty at the start of a game to keep him alive from overwhelming firepower, but then they're going to be useless for the rest of the game. Costly investment. In an ideal game, they could deep strike down as Mortarion is about to hit enemy lines, and with a bunch of fast moving threats around (Drones, Mortarion, etc) they should be able to get a charge in at some point. There is a 0% chance they're going to be better for their points than Blightlords though. You could put them in a Land Raider, but that would be an extraordinarily expensive unit and still suffers from 'not Blightlord' syndrome. If you're happy with a unit of overpriced Terminators that can possibly keep a few wounds off Morty in a pinch, these are your guys. The models are, however, stunning. I am buying some purely for that reason, and I suppose I could use one as a Lord of Contagion if I wanted. They are essentially monopose though, with only an extra belly plate/set of shoulders and some spare heads allowing you to differentiate your models. Whether or not this makes them a no-go depends purely on personal taste. It would certainly make creating an individualised unit of 6 a royal pain in the ass. Of course, the disclaimer here is that people might found them great once we all actually get some games in. If you love the models I'd recommend buying them, but if you're purchasing based on tabletop use and are on a budget, I'd give them a miss at the moment. Wait for Blightlords. kinda sad about deathshroud but I think I'll still be including a unit even not for Mortarion (who I'm probably not going to use at all) but more for protecting my Plaguecaster who I struggle to keep alive since he always gets killed usually by a squad overwhelming him or sniped. Probably a waste of points but I'm buying the models anywa so I might as well try at using them a few times. I was also think of taking an under strength unit of 2 since I usually have heaps of CPs anyway so losing one isn't so bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Why are all the threads getting locked? They locked the DG community thread too.Because you have a whole sub-forum to play around in maybe? You don't need these old threads that are just relics of a bygone era now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TasadarMadBear Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Why are all the threads getting locked? They locked the DG community thread too.Because you have a whole sub-forum to play around in maybe? You don't need these old threads that are just relics of a bygone era now... Old thread from a bygone era? The name of this thread is New Death Guard in 8th edition. And the other was a community page dedicated to the DG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Yes, they are both from the era before we had a whole dedicated sub-forum for Death Guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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