Emperor's Children/Noise Marine Tactica

[Sersi]

Okay, the Frontline Gaming podcast on Chaos Space Marines they stated that you do use the current data sheet info. But the Cults in the Chaos index each have 2 data sheets. The Legion specific rules and data slates in the index are not overridden and are still valid; but you use the current: weapons profiles, wargear and points updates.  So, all of the Cult Legions can still take Cults as troops.  Since they were play testers on both the Index and Codex they should know. 

[Panzer]

Frontline Gaming definitely is no reference for official rules, tho this time I agree with them obviously.

[Sersi]

Front-line Gaming, actually corrected themselves stating that they were wrong about Noise Marines being troops in a Emperor's Children Detachment. 

 

 

Moving on I got my codex today and the first thing that stuck out to me was that the Renegade Legion Trait was just better than the Emperor's Children one. Then looking at the actual Slaanesh: artifacts, stratagems and warlord traits; compared to the Emperor's Children specific artifact, stratagem and warlord trait. Blissgiver is garbage, compared to Intoxication Elixir. Stimulated by Pain is nice but all of the generic Warlord Trait are good as is Inspiring Presence from the main rule book. As for Stratagems the Endless Cacophony for shooting twice is generic Slaaneshi. While the EC on Excess of Violence 1CP for +1 attack "if" you kill something, isn't great unless its Terminators, Warp Talons, or Power Sword equipped Chosen.  You do miss out on Veterans of the Long War for +1 to wound.  Which along with loosing access to the Sonic Dreadnought is the only real negative to just taking a Slaaneshi Renegade Force instead. Or at the very least taken any melee oriented units in a Slaaneshi Renegade detachment. 

 

For instance since CP are shared over the entire army. You would take a Slaaneshi <Renegade> Battalion and kit the those CSM troops, that get nothing the EC legion trait out with chain swords and take advantage of Advance & Charge.   Melee Chosen and Terminators are also better taken in a renegade force as well since they can still use Endless Cacophony. Then take a <Emperor's Children> Vanguard for your shooting units or models you want to take EC specific gear on. 

 

The only thing to be mindful of in a mixed force would be characters auras are specific to units with their legion trait.  Fortunately, Sorcerers are agnostic in that the power either work for all Heretic Astarte or are Slaanesh Specific.  

Edited August 13, 2017 by Sersi

[Sersi]

Actually, I just thought of a better option. Since CP are shared over the entire army.  Take two minimum Battalions of Slaanesh Chaos Daemons. For instance 3 units of 10 Daemonettes and a Herald in a seeker chariot for 356 pts each; for 6 CP and 60 Obsec troops.  Only 712 pts which leaves plenty of points for a Emperor's Children Vanguard detachment for you Noise Marines, Terminators, and Sonic Dreadnoughts.

[Panzer]

Well yeah if you want to play a Slaanesh army there are better options than EC. Alpha Legion or Night Lords for example. Tho I'll play EC for the same reason I play BA and not Red Marines. Because it just feels cheap otherwise. I'm not too fond of cherry picking when building a fluffy army. ^^

[Sersi]

Well if that's your thing that's fine. For myself I don't see a problem playing EC with allied Slaaneshi Daemons or Slaaneshi Renegades as its all still mono-god, and is not alien to the fluff. But like you I wouldn't play Slaanesh Alpha Legion or Night Lords either.  

[Filkarion]

I actually always loved pure slaanesh noise marines as opposed to Emperor's childrens... I'm not so sure a noise warband with Alpha Legion traits would be heresy... I mean "double heresy"...

Still I can feel that "It's dirty" feeling. I'm sure I can came up with a good story for that, but a lot o great tales came from poor origins.

I will think about it. Anyway, I will be at Warhammer World tomorrow; any of you noisy guy will be there?

[DraneceusRex]

So with the codex dropping, here's what I am looking at for 2k pts. Thoughts?

 

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Daemons)

• HQ 
  • Herald of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot [116pts]

    Hysterical Frenzy

  • The Masque of Slaanesh [78pts]
• Troops
  • Daemonettes [94pts]

    Alluress, 11x Daemonette, Instrument of Chaos [10pts]

  • Daemonettes [94pts]

    Alluress, 11x Daemonette, Instrument of Chaos [10pts]

  • Daemonettes [84pts]

    Alluress, 11x Daemonette

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines)

• HQ
  • Chaos Lord [94pts]

    Combi-plasma [15pts], Mark of Slaanesh, Power axe [5pts]

  • Daemon Prince with Wings [80pts] - General w/Stimulated By Pain and Intoxicating Elixir

    Malefic talon [10pts]

    • Slaanesh
• Troops
  • Chaos Cultists [40pts]

    9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun

    • Cultist Champion

      Autogun

  • Chaos Cultists [40pts]  

    9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun

    Cultist Champion  

    • Autogun

  • Chaos Space Marines [85pts]

    Mark of Slaanesh

    • Aspiring Champion [13pts]

      Bolt pistol, Boltgun

    • 3x Marine w/ Boltgun [39pts]
    • Marine w/ heavy weapon [33pts]

      Autocannon [20pts]

• Elites
  • Noise Marines [379]

    Icon of Excess [10pts]

    • 2x Marine w/ Blastmaster
    • 15x Marine w/ Sonic blaster
    • Noise Champion

      Power axe [5pts], Sonic blaster [4pts]

  • Sonic Dreadnought [155pts]

    Power scourge [43pts], Two blastmasters [40pts]

• Heavy Support
  • Chaos Predator [189pts]

    Mark of Slaanesh, Predator autocannon [49pts]

    • Two lascannons [50pts]
• Flyers
  • Heldrake [185pts]

    Baleflamer [30pts], Heldrake claws [17pts], Mark of Slaanesh

  • Heldrake [185pts]

    Baleflamer [30pts], Heldrake claws [17pts], Mark of Slaanesh                 

 

[Panzer]

Looks solid. It's pretty much what I'll be going for except that I probably won't go with troop CSM and replace them with Cultists and maybe some Havocs, one of the Fiends or a second Noise Marine Squad. If I needed points I'd save them by kicking the second Heldrake (just because I want to play around with just one Heldrake at first, not because it's weak or such ;) ).

 

I probably also would try to summon the Daemons instead of using them in a seperate Detachment, but we could argue all day about that. ^^

[DraneceusRex]

@sfPanzer - Yeah troops are where I'm a bit undecided. I could go with more cultists, but that would mean a lot more converting and I wanted a slightly more durable backfield sitter with a little bit of a ranged punch.

 

Would love some Havocs to give me a second option for Endless Cacophony but I can't get them to fit without ditching something like the Predator. Not sure. I am sure I'll keep playing with it.

 

The Heldrakes tend to get alpha striked, so I feel at least 2 are needed if you want to use them, though they are a little more manageable as a decoy 30pts cheaper with the codex. 

 

I like having 9CP so that's a big focus of having the Daemon Battalion. 

 

Thanks for the look. 

[the jeske]

 

So with the codex dropping, here's what I am looking at for 2k pts. Thoughts?

 

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Daemons)

• HQ
  • Herald of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot [116pts]

    Hysterical Frenzy

  • The Masque of Slaanesh [78pts]
• Troops
  • Daemonettes [94pts]

    Alluress, 11x Daemonette, Instrument of Chaos [10pts]

  • Daemonettes [94pts]

    Alluress, 11x Daemonette, Instrument of Chaos [10pts]

  • Daemonettes [84pts]

    Alluress, 11x Daemonette

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines)

• HQ
  • Chaos Lord [94pts]

    Combi-plasma [15pts], Mark of Slaanesh, Power axe [5pts]

  • Daemon Prince with Wings [80pts] - General w/Stimulated By Pain and Intoxicating Elixir

    Malefic talon [10pts]

    • Slaanesh
• Troops
  • Chaos Cultists [40pts]

    9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun

    • Cultist Champion

      Autogun

  • Chaos Cultists [40pts]  

    9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun

    Cultist Champion

    • Autogun

  • Chaos Space Marines [85pts]

    Mark of Slaanesh

    • Aspiring Champion [13pts]

      Bolt pistol, Boltgun

    • 3x Marine w/ Boltgun [39pts]
    • Marine w/ heavy weapon [33pts]

      Autocannon [20pts]

• Elites
  • Noise Marines [379]

    Icon of Excess [10pts]

    • 2x Marine w/ Blastmaster
    • 15x Marine w/ Sonic blaster
    • Noise Champion

      Power axe [5pts], Sonic blaster [4pts]

  • Sonic Dreadnought [155pts]

    Power scourge [43pts], Two blastmasters [40pts]

• Heavy Support
  • Chaos Predator [189pts]

    Mark of Slaanesh, Predator autocannon [49pts]

    • Two lascannons [50pts]
• Flyers
  • Heldrake [185pts]

    Baleflamer [30pts], Heldrake claws [17pts], Mark of Slaanesh

  • Heldrake [185pts]

    Baleflamer [30pts], Heldrake claws [17pts], Mark of Slaanesh                 

 

ditch the csm squad, split the nm in to 2-3 squads. remove melee option from NM champions you don't want to be in melee and the power ax won't save you if you happen to end up in it. One helldrake is more then enough. take two more cultist units.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

I've also made an army list with the new codex. Any advices ?

 

Vanguard Detachment

HQ :
1 Daemon Prince with Sword and Intoxicating Elixir (156)

Elite (3-6)   
1 Hellforged Sicarian w/Heavy Bolter, Twin-linked Autocannon (245)
Possessed w/ Icon of Excess (230)
10 Noise Marines w/ 7 Sonic Blaster, 2 Blastmaster, Doom siren (240)
5 Terminator w/ Power sword x2, Power fist*3, Combimelta x5 (294)
Bataillon Detachment
HQ :   
Sorcerer with jetpack and Force Sword (126)
Chaos Lord with Power Maul (78)
Troupes (3-6)   
10 Cultist (40)
10 Cultiste (40)
10 Cultiste (40)
Elite (0-6)  
Sonic Hellbrut w/ 2 Destructeurs, Doom Siren, Missile Launcher (159)
Fast Attack   
Biker w/Combi-bolterx3, Combi-flamers, 2xFlammers (110)
   
Support    
Defiler w/ Defiler Claws, Defilers Scourge, Twin linked Heavy Flamers (181)

 

- Cultist & Defiler for Teleport protecting

- Sorcerer deepstrik with Termi to get Prescience - Warpitme on them

- Termi use VotLW + Endless cacophony for 10 shot 2+ 2+ on their target

- Daemon prince goes with possessed with Slaanesh spell to give them 5+ FnP

- Posessed rush into close when their Daemon Prince can summon Herald of Slaanesh for Hysterical Frenzy (+ Excess of Violence if against horde)

- Noise Hellbrute use the Frenzy Fire stratagem, adapting Missile Launcher and blastmaster shot to whatever unit is closest 

Edited August 18, 2017 by DreamIsCollapsing

[Brother Aiwass]

What about termies having plasma for 20 overcharged shots? Cast fnp on them instead of warptime, and you can still charge with them.

[leth]

Yeah, Personally I feel that a combination of Alpha legion for ranged Noise Marines and renegades for assault based nose marines is the way to go.  I will be working to update the front page soon. 

[The Fey Mallory]

I think the best options for an EC Lord is the Murder Sword along with the EC Warlord Trait (exchanging wounds for attacks). Against your chosen target, you only need to hit (with re-rollable +2) to get mortal wounds on your target, and if you don't kill them when you first strike, they have to annihilate you or you'll hit back with even more attacks. Against everyone else, you have a power sword giving +1 Strength and AP -4, which is a very good melee weapon.

 

Put it on a JetPack lord with a Raptor/Talon gang, and deep strike near the enemy Warlord or target, and watch your opponent arrange his army to try to protect them, or else giving you Linebreaker, First Blood and Kill the Warlord, potentially turn one.

 

Also, if you are deepstriking with Raptors/Talons, how about bringing a sorcerer, and between your Lord and Sorcerer, summoning a Keeper of Secrets (rolling 11 or better) which is a lovely fast moving melee unit which will be a disturbing presence on their back lines or flank. All this fast attack is very EC in my view...

 

BlissGiver seems a poor choice to me - a 1/6 chance of mortals wounds, and only against characters, otherwise it's just D6 bolter shots.

 

For infantry wiping, you could alternatively give him a pair of lightning claws, and drink the Slaanesh Elixir, between the drugs and the claws you'll have a total of 6 attacks at re-rollable strength 5. Deepstrike into a Tau backline and say hello. For warlord traits, maybe the EC one again, or the one where you get a mortal wound for each wound roll of 6 (and don't forget DTTFE, so you'll probably be chucking out 8ish attacks, counting the free mortal wound).

 

What do you think?

 

Also, I assume the wording of the Strategem where you can buy another artifact cannot be construed to allow your lord to have a 2nd one? just throwing it out there...

Edited August 18, 2017 by The Fey Mallory

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Also, I assume the wording of the Strategem where you can buy another artifact cannot be construed to allow your lord to have a 2nd one?

 

 

No, only One Artifact per models.

The thing with those Relics is :

One : What are the reason not to take a Daemon Prince in your army ? 

So two : What's better than Intoxicating Elixir on your Daemon Prince ? You get Strenght 8, wich is a BIG cut off as it allow you to wound MEQ on 2+ and Tank (generally with Thougness 7) one 3. This alone is better than any other Artifact (in fact Daemon Prince are so good, even mediocre relics are good on them.. as long as they can take it).

And three : Those second relics (after Intoxicating elixir) for you army ? Is it worth it to spend 1 Command Point (wich is One VotLW use) for it ? 

 

What about termies having plasma for 20 overcharged shots? Cast fnp on them instead of warptime, and you can still charge with them.

 

I think FnP will be better on Possessed : the Terminator must/will be worth it just by unload combiweapon with VotLW & Endless Cacophony and talking huge fire to be killed. Possessed on the other hand will be worth it only if coming to close in suffisant number to justify the price of Icon of Excess & Herald of Slaanesh.

 

The question about combi-plasma or combi-melta is relevant. My concerns with combi-plasma is : Too much random.

Overcharged plasma on 30 points models mean you MUST have prescience. Wich is a little more than 60% of chance to be cast, even less if their is an enemy psyker in 24". 

On the other hand, melta don't need Prescience to be effective. They are better if Prescience is cast, clearly, but they can do some damage even if the psychic roll is a fail/enemy psyker deny the spell. 

 

And Warptime not only give me auto-charge, it also greatly improve the melta damage (by going under 6" of enemy). 

So Combi-plasma are cheaper, don't need Warptime but do absolutly need prescience.

On the other hand, melta don't need any spell to become relevant. So you don't spoil 300 points on your terminator units for nothing just because the Warp wasn't with you

[leth]

Not the most competative but here is my list for this weekend, possibly for NOVA.

 

2x Daemon Prince Alpha Legion

1x Slaanesh, two talons, elixir

1x khorne, Axe, talisman of blood

 

10 Noise Marines x 3

6x sonic blaster

2x blast maser

 

2x Contempter

2x Butcher

2x Twin Lascannon

 

Leviathan

twox butcher cannon Array

 

Ahriman

3x 10 Brimstones

 

Ahriman because the new tree + him is BUSTED, brims for deep strike defense and bubble wrap. rest is pretty straight forward.....also I really want to run dreadnaughts so damn it I will run them, even if they are a handicap. Really wish daemon princes got legion traits.....then it would be night lords all the way. 

 

Will do a breakdown later of how it goes later

Edited August 18, 2017 by leth

[Panzer]

What's up with your Noise Marine units?

6 Sonic Blaster + 2 Blast Master = 8 ... what are the other two guys in that unit being equipped with?

[leth]

What's up with your Noise Marine units?

6 Sonic Blaster + 2 Blast Master = 8 ... what are the other two guys in that unit being equipped with?

 

Two bullet sponges.  Squad leader is chainsword Chain Axe, and one Bolter marine.  215 points. 

 

I miss pointed Ahriman but other than that it went extremely well.

 

Swapping Ahriman for an exacted sorcerer, making it two twin-lascannon Contemptors and adding a blue back in to the horrors unit. 

Edited August 20, 2017 by leth

[Panzer]

 

What's up with your Noise Marine units?

6 Sonic Blaster + 2 Blast Master = 8 ... what are the other two guys in that unit being equipped with?

 

Two bullet sponges.  Squad leader is chainsword Chain Axe, and one Bolter marine.  215 points. 

Eh I don't see the reason to make them bullet sponges when you could just add 6 more Sonic Blaster shots as well but it's your decision.

[leth]

 

 

What's up with your Noise Marine units?

6 Sonic Blaster + 2 Blast Master = 8 ... what are the other two guys in that unit being equipped with?

 

Two bullet sponges.  Squad leader is chainsword Chain Axe, and one Bolter marine.  215 points. 

Eh I don't see the reason to make them bullet sponges when you could just add 6 more Sonic Blaster shots as well but it's your decision.

 

 

Sure, and if points were infinite then it wouldnt be a problem.  The problem is that many times the threshold for taking a unit in a tight list can be 3-4 points.  I would rather not have brims in two squads explode when smiting instead of 1 sonic blaster, so on and so forth.  Its one of those things where I wish I had the points to make it work, however I just dont have them. 

 

 

 

What's up with your Noise Marine units?

6 Sonic Blaster + 2 Blast Master = 8 ... what are the other two guys in that unit being equipped with?

 

Two bullet sponges.  Squad leader is chainsword Chain Axe, and one Bolter marine.  215 points. 

Eh I don't see the reason to make them bullet sponges when you could just add 6 more Sonic Blaster shots as well but it's your decision.

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by leth

[leth]

Updated the Charts for new weapons.  Still working on the strategy guide.

 

Any comments or thoughts since the drop of the new book?

[Ravenger]

Figure out a way to add one blue horror to the brimstone to skip the explode on smite