Infantry Squads in 8th

[Thoridon]

Apologies if I've missed a thread already, I had a look but couldn't see one focused on the humble Infantry Squad in the new edition.
 
As with many Guard players I have many, many inantry models and have been looking at how I might want to run them in 8th. The big change is that we lost the ability to blob (at least until we see what a specific Codex might provide) with only basic Conscripts getting that now. So we're left with running 10-man units and the ability to add 1 Special, 1 Heavy and a limited selection on the Sergeant. Still a fair few options, comparable with the Marine Tactical Squad.
 
The question is which weapons? To help myself think I ran the numbers and have some simple charts. These are based on a squad having moved, so Heavy weapons hitting on a 5+. D6 is modelled at 3.5 'average', D3 at 2.
 
Specials
http://i.imgur.com/X7nfHsE.jpg
 

The Flamer looks like it will be very strong for damage output against other weak infantry if you get up close, but that is going to be the issue with the weapon. A nice overwatch bonus too. Against tough multi-wound models the Plasma Gun is very points efficient, though it runs the risk of killing the wielder. It also offers decent damage against infantry in rapid fire mode, though not the most points efficient option for that and is more of a versatility bonus if you take it for the anti-tough primarily. A Meltagun is the safer option here, lacking the range and versatility of the Plasma Gun but offering a 'safe' shot at the big targets. Grenade Launchers seem a bit stuck in the middle. A big takeaway is that if you get the First Rank Fire order on an infantry squad in rapid fire range the sheer number of shots makes the lasgun with that order a very points efficient option, only really beaten by Plasma/Melta against the big targets for efficiency.
 
Heavies
http://i.imgur.com/Sn1A9PN.jpg
 
I've left the lasgun in this chart just to show the relative strength and efficiency compared to not upgrading. The Autocannon, Missile Launcher and Lascannon do all provide higher damage output against tough targets but for the points they cost the efficiency is low. Both damage output and efficiency are lower than Special weapon options on the move, and considering how weak Guardsmen are it could be a lot of points for little effect that won't last long. A FRF order is going to see the lasgun more points efficient than most heavies (dependiing on the range). I think I'd be highly tempted to skip these on squads that will be moving a lot and focus those expensive weapons on units that either have better BS or are more durable.
 
Looking at the Sergeant options next...
 
Sergeant Ranged
http://i.imgur.com/0BYBav3.jpg
 
With pistols no longer granting the +1 Attack I'm in favour of taking the Boltgun for anti-infantry. It won't benefit from the First Rank Fire order but for the single point it's nice and efficient, and keeps the Sergeant operating at the same range as his men. For tougher targets the Plasma Pistol could be a nice option for the cost - you have to be in rapid fire range and you could lose the sergeant but it could add a valuable extra couple of wounds to something tough nearby.

Sergeant Melee
http://i.imgur.com/1bR0KLQ.jpg
 

I was planning to give Sergeants a power weapon but I might just stick with the Chainsword now for the most part, especially as they can use that with a boltgun. It's the most points efficient option with that +1A, especially against an infantry squad's ideal targets, With base S3 and a 4+ hit not making the most of the power weapon stats. The exception for me could be an Axe or Maul if up against a lot of T6/T8, but honestly I think I'd rather spend the points elsewhere.

 

Squad Loadouts

 

I'm not entirely sure how I'll run my squads at this point. I know I'll have a bunch of squads just running a Flamer and Chainsword to advance, as my Catachans were geared for that already. The sergeants mostly have laspistols but I'll have to see about putting Boltguns on some instead.

 

I'm tempted to add a bit of Plasma to some squads to give more shots against tough targets. Maybe just on the Special slot, as losing a Sergeant to it would hurt for morale checks. Alternatively I just run a couple of Meltaguns (which I already have on some metal models) for a chance of extra damage if something comes close, but I feel there are better units to spend those points on.

 

At this point I'm looking at ignoring Heavies on my infantry and just using those points elsewhere, given how points efficient the First Rank Fire order is on lasguns. I'd rather make sure I have enough officers (and Vox where needed) to keep that going.

 

Quite honestly, aside from flamers for advancing squads I'm very tempted to keep other infantry squads very basic, spam that extra shot order on cheap lasguns and focus extra points elsewhere.

 

Anyhow, enough rambling. Thoughts?

[USNCenturion]

Good write up, thanks for the charts.

 

I'm still waiting on my pre-orders to come in so I'm still not fully up on rules and stats but in my opinion all of these will depend on the specific list and how you want the squads to synergize.

 

The BS to me has always led me towards the autocannon based on volume of shots. The same I think can be said for the auto hit capability of the flamer when receiving a charge. The infantry squad is not the armies heavy lifter and I feel the higher powered weapons should be left to faster, stronger platforms and better ballistic skills.

 

Just my quick two cents.

[NatBrannigan]

Nice and cheap, nice and simple. Bolter on the Sarge and either a grenade launcher or flamer. No Heavy Weapon. Low points cost, still nice and mobile, making the most of FRFSRF. That's an infantry squad as the good Emperor intended!

 

I used to have Autocannons in most of my squads but I'll now be using them in Heavy Weapon Squads.

 

The main thing is to get those squads the support they need to really flourish. Company and Platoon commanders, Commisars, Banners, Inquisitors. All these have a dramatic impact on infantry to the same or now a greater extent than in 7th. I'd even have a Priest hanging around (and I intend to do just that!) to double the attacks these guys can put out.

[Truesight]

Nice write-up!  It'll be interesting to see how things shake out with special weapons.  Flamers and Melta I think will be the winners for infantry squads, but plasma is so cheap it'll definitely be worthwhile.  

One interesting aside about melta. Since it is assault we can use it after the Move! Move! Move! order. So we can move the squad 12'' + 2d6 and get the shot on those vehicles or characters.

[Captain_Krash]

Flamers aren't all there cracked up to be there damage out put is quite low. Great on over watch yes. But you have to get within 8" to use them and Putting your guardsmen that close let alone them making it there from what I've seen facing sisters of battle is a near impossible task.

 

Grenade launchers are my go to special weapon (for standard troop squads)of choice for both its versatility/point cost and it's ability to throw more hits/wounds down range to force saves(It's basically like getting another 1-6 las gun shots or a single higher str shot). The more dice your opponent has to roll the more times he has chances to fail.

 

Plasma and melta are also great choices just Pricier.

 

Flames should be used only be used in special weapon squads for support of your battle line or as a nice flanking maneuver.

 

Krash  

[Gen.Steiner]

I know exactly how I'll be fielding my infantry squads in my new, 8th edition, Imperial Guard infantry company:

3x Rocket launcher, plasma gun, vox
3x Rocket launcher, grenade launcher, vox
3x Rocket launcher, meltagun, vox
3x Flamer, vox
 

Flamer squads up front, meltas 6" behind them, with plasma and grenade launcher squads behind them with the command squads, heavy weapons teams and so on forming a ranged backstop. That's the idea at least.

[Tallarn Commander]

I got my first game of 8th in yesterday and my experience jives with your data. I ran 6 squads against Eldar supported by 2 captains, 2 lieutenants, and 2 commies. The lasguns, plasma guns, and flamers did the heavy lifting while the lascannons, autocannons (I moved around a lot), and grenade launchers were lackluster.

 

My opponent also told me we can shoot plasma pistols in close combat. Wow! I've had 6 plasma pistol troopers painted up and in 17 years I've used them about 6 times. They're definitely getting dusted off and I'm sticking them in my squads.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Hmmm ... interesting graphs. I'm a bit torn now. I was going to go autocannons and lascannons, but lascannons seem to be more efficient than autocannons even for the mid-toughness targets like bikes that I was thinking of using them on. Missile Launchers are looking better for that multi-use role.

 

As for special weapons, looks like my plans for plasmaguns and grenade launchers still makes sense.

[DarthWaffle]

Hmmm ... interesting graphs. I'm a bit torn now. I was going to go autocannons and lascannons, but lascannons seem to be more efficient than autocannons even for the mid-toughness targets like bikes that I was thinking of using them on. Missile Launchers are looking better for that multi-use role.

 

As for special weapons, looks like my plans for plasmaguns and grenade launchers still makes sense.

 

I feel like I'm in the same boat, I had everything figured out and then GW goes ahead and drops a new rules addition that changes everything! :) 

 

I will say that unlike previous editions where one or two special weapons stood out from all the rest, every special weapon feels realistically usable now under the right circumstances. I'm getting the sense that basic infantry squads need to have some different weapons. Ie. if you go all Plasma you won't have flamers for when you get charged.  

 

Still undecided on heavy weapons. Agreeing with the sentiment that to retain mobility it might be better to leave them in Heavy Weapon teams. 

 

Would it be unreasonable to place a heavy weapon team of 3xlascannons and another of 3xheavy bolters with a bone stock platoon commander to feed orders? 

[Otto von Bludd]

Plasma pistol / gun is quite nice.  It's very versatile and allows your squad to engage just about any target and have some effect on it up to 24".  The pistol is quite nice now as it can basically double as a superior powerfist in that you can fire it off in melee too. Finally, while overcharging them is dangerous it's also very effective vs those 2 wound heavy infantry, and infantry are one of the best options for using overcharged plasma.  Not only can you re-roll those 1s with orders, but a dead plasma gunner hurts you a lot less than 6 mortal wounds on a plasma Russ. 

[jarms48]

Personally I'd use those Guard models as conscripts or veterans now. If you want the most of FRFSRF get a few conscript blobs, if you want to make the most out of special weapons (specifically plasma and melta) get veterans. Alternatively, use scions and conscripts. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by jarms48

[ThatOneMarshal]

I would argue the infantry squad is here to stay against the likes of conscripts.

 

For just 1 point more per man than the conscripts here's what you get:

 

- Leadership 7 instead of 4. Infantry Squads benefit from Commissars alot, but Conscripts NEED one around or half the blob will run away after the first few casualties (and we all know how potent snipers are this edition, particularly Rattlings). If the enemy has snipers and murders even just one of your commissars (let alone two or three) then the Conscripts turn into dead weight. My list will for example have 10 rattlings for only 70pts who will do that really well.

 

-A free Sergeant with 3 attacks in close combat and Leadership 7. The Sarge alone has the same amount of attacks as 9 points worth of Conscripts while hitting on 4+ instead of 5+. He can also get a Boltgun (while keeping the Chainsword) for only 1 point which while not being much does benefit alot from take aim and supporting heavier weapons (remember that Bolters wound anything up to T7 on a 5+)

 

- Hit on 4+ both in close combat and with their ranged weapons instead of 5+. Particularly in close combat conscripts will do nothing but put extra bodies between you and the enemy. Even with a hundred attacks you will only end up with a MEQ unit having to take 11 armour saves.

- While you need more officers than for big conscript units, Infantry squads benefit from FRFSRF and Take Aim! much more thanks to their higher BS. You can also take a vox, which means the officer won't have to be within 6" of the squad (leaving him vulnerable to getting tied up in close combat as well).

 

- Being able to take Special and Heavy Weapons is huge. Lascannon HWS are extremely squishy high-point value targets that will get wiped fast (even with cheaper teams thrown in, they are still only T3 models with a 5+ save even with 2 wounds) which are much safer and more reliable embedded in infantry squads. 5pt Grenade Launchers and 7pt Plasma Guns are great for those units, while cheap speedbump squads with a flamer (47 points) or flamer+ HB (55 points) make for excellent and expendable screening and charge blocking units. With a vox also much easier to order for commanders (remember that an officer needs to be within 6" of a HWS to do so) and the rest of the squad, particularly the special, benefits from Take Aim! a lot too.

 

- Infantry squads can throw grenades much more efficiently. While not much you probably WILL do that once the enemy is within the 6" range (particularly with the sarge if he only got his pistol) for example after a failed charge and especially in overwatch against short range charges.

 

- Concript overwatch might be "as good" as the overwatch of Infantry Squads, but without the option of having a flamer and it will also achieve almost nothing even against T3 hordes once you start calculating the numbers

- If you want Conscripts to do anything then you need a whole bunch of points in support characters, even moreso if you actually want them to inflict any damage

 

- No insane headache of having to buy, paint, deploy and move giant blobs of Conscripts that might well be nerfed once the Codex or first Chapter Approved Rules update rolls out. Math- and Theoryhammer is all nice and good until you actually have to deploy those blobs on the table and many of them won't do much with their 24" range BB guns on a 72" board if the enemy spreads out. Not to mention getting them all into close combat or rapid-fire range if they do get charged

 

- Rules aside, Infantry squads get you more bang for your quids and bucks and can save you a whole lot of money if you put a heavy weapon team in them (which replaces two models in the unit... which you can then use to build another heavy weapon team with a spare 60mm base or even an entire new squad if you got 8 spares) and we all know how expensive playing Guard is to begin with, it adds up quickly. Also infantry squads with all the Sarges, voxes and special weapons have much more individuality than just dozens of dudes with lasguns which makes them nicer to look at and more bearable to paint

 

 

Sure, Conscripts are good, but not necessarily superior to Infantry squads, particularly from a flexibility point of view with their cheap special and heavy weapons and much better accuracy and close combat ability (pretty bad but not complete trash like Concripts) for 1 point.

[Gen.Steiner]

I believe that the Infantry Squad is the bread-and-butter of the Guard, and can be successful both with and without armour support.

I think that the rocket launcher is the best weapon for the infantry squad as it provides flexibility in targeting - krak for armour and characters, frag for squads. With the ability to split fire, heavy weapon teams within the squads are much more flexible than before too - your small arms can shoot up nearby infantry, your heavy weapons can hit bigger, higher value targets.

 

Veterans, Stormtroopers, and Conscripts all have their place too, particularly in terms of special weapon delivery and tarpitting respectively, but they are not as versatile.

[Thoridon]

Some good thoughts here.

 

To expand on various points I've done some more numbers looking at a few different units, focusing on two things:

 

1. Lasgun with First Rank Fire order.

2. Plasma Gun with Reroll 1s to hit order for Vets/Scions (Infantry would be receiving other orders).

 

In both cases I looked at being within rapid fire range. For the Plasma Gun I split the mode, being 'safe mode' against single wound targets and overcharged for that 2D on anything multi-wound. The Scions have the hot-shot lasgun option rather than the basic lasgun.

 

http://i.imgur.com/RMUbZXN.jpg

 

I actually see the basic Infantry squad as being optimal for maximising the efficiency of the First Rank Fire order. Conscripts are slightly cheaper but -1 point for -1 BS hurts the damage output, and LD 4 is going to see them disappear fast. I see their use as a throwaway distraction blob but for me their poor BS hurts too much for Order efficiency. Veterans gain a bit of damage with their BS and Scions clearly do more per shot but for both of them that comes with increased cost, so in terms of pure Lasgun spam the Infantry squad remains the most points efficient for me.

 

http://i.imgur.com/gMAeUmC.jpg

 

For Plasma the Conscripts obviously can't use it. Infantry can only use 1, and giving them the reroll 1 order would be significantly reducing the effect of the majority lasguns. Veterans do come out on top for points efficiency here, being the same BS as Scions for less points, but you have to factor in that they need a way to get that Plasma into effective range that means points on a transport. The Scions have the points to drop in at 9" built in already, which for me makes them a clear winner for that.

 

For Infantry Squads I am thinking more and more to focus on the lasgun spam. At 1 point more than Conscripts they have better damage output with the 4 BS, better leadership and benefit more from the order. They can:

 

• Get 2 shots at 24" with the FRF order.
• Get 4 shots when closing with in 12" with the FRF order.
• Either charge to hit first in combat or hold position for 2 overwatch shots each.
• Fall back in the following turn, use Get back In order to shoot straight after with 2 shots within 12".
• Repeat.

I am going to stick with leaving the Heavy weapon for units better suited for those points, so that leaves the optional Special:

 

• If you expect to get within 8" for the shooting and want to take the overwatch route a Flamer could be the option.
• If you want a sprinkle of something against higher toughness targets a Plasma Gun is still going to be efficient for the points, not a lot lost if it dies on overcharge and it shares the range with the lasgun.
• You can use a Meltagun for a boost against tough things without the OC plasma risk, but it's less points efficient and wasted points if nothing tough comes within 12" whereas plasma retains versatility against infantry with the rapid fire.
• A grenade launcher will be a small boost over the lasgun against tough targets, no gain against infantry. Still, for 2 more points you can get the Plasma which is stronger in almost every situation even if you never overcharge it.

If you want to save points to field extra bodies just roll with full Lasguns. You can really increase their efficiency with orders and have board presence.

 

For focused Plasma I would look at dropping a unit of Scions in with a Tempestor for the rerolls, though Vets in a transport could do it too, but that choice is an issue for other threads For Melta I'd rather use those points on a unit I know I will be putting in range of the necessary target.

 

The key for me personally is going to be the models themselves. I have a lot of infantry, many old metal models, and some have flamers, grenade launchers and melta already - none have plasma. I also need to source a bunch of plasma guns anyway for my Scions, so finding more on top for infantry would be a pain. I will be using flamers on Catachans for fluff reasons, but I can also just as easily drop that for an extra lasgun instead if I find it isn't worth the points (I have a LOT of bodies). Similarly I have old Mordians, Praetorians and Valhallans with flamer, melta and grenade in metal. I probably won't use the flamer as that's the Catachan thing and I don't want to use the expensive melta here so it'll probably just be a couple of those squads using the grenade launcher for a small boost against T6 and massed lasguns for the rest (I have spare lasgun models I can swap in).

 

I'm sure some will have games where they include heavies, get good rolls and love the damage it gives but for me I'm going to stick with my thoughts for now and go fairly basic. Boots over Equipment for my Infantry Squads I think. I'll save the points to put the more expensive equipment elsewhere and use the Infantry to provide basic coverage.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Thoridon

[lash144]

First of all thanks for your work, it's very helpful to see some numbers backing up the discussion!

 

Two points from my side:

 

1. Shouldn't you also divide the ML and GL in using frag and krak grenades?

 

2. I see your point on the heavy weapons inside the squads, but remenber:

The two soldiers in the HWT still have their lasguns and they can shoot both weapons.

[jarms48]

2. I see your point on the heavy weapons inside the squads, but remenber:

The two soldiers in the HWT still have their lasguns and they can shoot both weapons.

 

Can you do that now? You weren't able to in 7th.

 

I would argue the infantry squad is here to stay against the likes of conscripts.

 

For just 1 point more per man than the conscripts here's what you get:

 

Forgot it's only a 1 point difference, still thinking of 7th. 

[Thoridon]

First of all thanks for your work, it's very helpful to see some numbers backing up the discussion!

 

Two points from my side:

 

1. Shouldn't you also divide the ML and GL in using frag and krak grenades?

 

2. I see your point on the heavy weapons inside the squads, but remenber:

The two soldiers in the HWT still have their lasguns and they can shoot both weapons.

 

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I combined Frag and Krak for the missile and grenade launchers, using the stronger option against each target type (I did have both separate but it added even more columns so I merged them).

 

Firing lasguns as well as the heavy weapon is indeed a plus, compared to having to choose from 7th. So my points efficiency only includes the value of the weapon alone for the Heavies as an added weapon to fire on top of the lasgun, whereas the lasgun and specials are model + weapon. If I'd included the model cost for heavies they'd look even less efficient.

 

For me the Heavies are all about opportunity cost. Are the points spent on that weapon going to be worthwhile in these squads or would they be better spent on other units? When you're looking at 20 points for some weapons that's half a new squad, so the cost of 2 squads getting a missile launcher each (for example) could be used to get a full extra 10-man squad. That leaves you with a simple choice, which is more cost effective?

 

1. 2 heavy weapons added to existing units, likely hitting at 5+ most of the time due to movement.
2. 10 extra bodies giving up to 40 lasgun shots (depending on range/orders), 10 wounds and more table coverage to cover more ground and help prevent the opponent having space to deep strike units in. Plus the option to take another special weapon if wanted.

Just to add a few more numbers using the Missile Launcher as an example...

 

2x Missile Launchers (Frag) vs T3 5+ = 1.04 expected wounds on the move

9x rapid fire Lasguns with FRF order vs T3 5+ = 6.03 expected wounds on the move

9 single shot Lasguns with no order vs T3 5+ = 1.53 expected wounds on the move

 

2x Missile Launchers (Krak) vs T8 3+ xW = 0.78 expected wounds on the move

9x rapid fire Lasguns with FRF order vs T8 3+ xW = 0.99 expected wounds on the move

9 single shot Lasguns with no order vs T8 3+ = 0.27 expected wounds on the move

 

So the same points spent on extra lasguns here would give much more expected damage against infantry and still more against the toughest targets when utilising orders. At max range and no orders the lasguns would still be stronger against infantry, and while they would drop below against big tough things the ML is subpar here anyway. Those numbers also don't include the Sergeant's weapon and potential extra Special, plus the 10 wounds to factor in for defensive purposes (and all those potential extra melee attacks).

 

When I look at it that way I see more benefit from the 2nd option, but that's my personal opinion

 

Edited to add some numbers.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Thoridon

[NatBrannigan]

I like the idea of a squad of conscripts at the front of my line. How do people model them? I know Cadians have Whiteshields with a distinctive helmet marking, so what about a Preatorian Regiments?

 

I want them to look different to my Infantry and Vets (Infantry are just Cadians with Pith Helmet Heads, Veterans the same but with Kilt legs as well) but am struggling for ideas. I guess "Historically" for a British Victorian army the conscripts would be Native Zulu Levies, but I'm really not comfortable with the deeply distasteful racial overtones there...(Fine for the writers of South Park, not so much for me).

 

I was thinking of maybe Orks? The "Native Levies" for Praetorians in the 40k world (Thinking Big Toof River here). Maybe Kromlech British Tommie Orks so they still have a proper uniform? Any ideas welcome!

[lash144]

For me the Heavies are all about opportunity cost. Are the points spent on that weapon going to be worthwhile in these squads or would they be better spent on other units? When you're looking at 20 points for some weapons that's half a new squad, so the cost of 2 squads getting a missile launcher each (for example) could be used to get a full extra 10-man squad. That leaves you with a simple choice, which is more cost effective?

 

• 2 heavy weapons added to existing units, likely hitting at 5+ most of the time due to movement.
• 10 extra bodies giving up to 40 lasgun shots (depending on range/orders), 10 wounds and more table coverage to cover more ground and help prevent the opponent having space to deep strike units in. Plus the option to take another special weapon if wanted.

When I look at it that way I see more benefit from the 2nd option, but that's my personal opinion :)

I guess the answer is like most of the time in life "it depends".

I agree with you that those 20 points may have a better investment if you plan to use your squad as a frontline or screening unit.

 

But if you use it more defensively, e.g. to sit on an objective it could be worthwhile to include a HWT, because it will hit on 4+.

[Thoridon]

Catachans might make the easiest option for conscripts if you already use Cadians for Infanty and Vets. They look less equipped and have kits in plastic which is a plus if you're looking for something you don't already own. I think if I was to use Conscripts in a game I'd either use the Catachans or Praetorians/Mordians as I have a bunch of both.

 

At this point though I'm planning to keep all those as basic Infantry. I have some new Cadians I was building as Plasma Vets for 7th but stopped as soon as it became clear that 8th was on the way. At this point I'm not sure if I want to run Vets, and if so which weapons, but if I do it will still be those Cadians as the models look better equipped (in my opinion) and are easier to modify.

 

If I decide not to continue building Vets I suppose I can just run 200+ Infantry...

[Gen.Steiner]

NatBrannigan - Natal Native Levies are one idea, but there were also Boer and white settler volunteer units; civilian milita basically, which could be created by using Genestealer Cult miniatures with human heads and the like to remove the HERESY bits. Autoguns instead of lasguns to emphasise their poorer quality.

Regarding heavy weapons, when you have 120 Guard infantry in your army you may as well give those 12 squads some form of heftier punch for a) extra range and b) potential for serious damage. I think Heavy Bolters and Autocannons are probably still going to be mathematically the best option but I do like my rocket launchers. Plus it feels fluffier to me.

[Aothaine]

Really good info here. My Genestealer Cult will keep this in mind when the take over happens. Keep up the good work!

Edited June 22, 2017 by Aothaine

[NatBrannigan]

Genestealer cultists? I could work with that... I'm making a Volcanic themed table at the moment with a mining base so that would actually work really well. Something to keep turning over in my head, my favourite idea so far. Thanks Gen.Steiner!

 

Also a bonus that I could actually use them as Genestealer cultists and just add my Guard to them with the new 8th rules!

[Aothaine]

Genestealer cultists? I could work with that... I'm making a Volcanic themed table at the moment with a mining base so that would actually work really well. Something to keep turning over in my head, my favourite idea so far. Thanks Gen.Steiner!

 

Also a bonus that I could actually use them as Genestealer cultists and just add my Guard to them with the new 8th rules!

 

For sure! I'm still working out how to build a list that lets the AM compliment the GC. I think I might end up running scions with them tbh. But we'll see.

 

 

I believe that the Infantry Squad is the bread-and-butter of the Guard, and can be successful both with and without armour support.

 

I think that the rocket launcher is the best weapon for the infantry squad as it provides flexibility in targeting - krak for armour and characters, frag for squads. With the ability to split fire, heavy weapon teams within the squads are much more flexible than before too - your small arms can shoot up nearby infantry, your heavy weapons can hit bigger, higher value targets.

 

Veterans, Stormtroopers, and Conscripts all have their place too, particularly in terms of special weapon delivery and tarpitting respectively, but they are not as versatile.

 

 

Totally agree here. Missile Launchers are the goto weapon in 8th ed imho.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Aothaine

[micahwc]

I've thought about adding genestealer cult parts to my guard army just for fun and heresy.