8th Edition Knights

[Lord_Ikka]

Hello Frater. I am looking for some info/suggestions from more established Knight commanders on some upcoming purchases. I currently have an Atrapos (Atropos spelling in Chaos FW Index?) and would like to give him some friends.

 

Now, I have a friend that is getting into 8th edition with T'au, and I feel like a Knight list would be fun. Granted, we don't have the official FW rules for non-Traitor Knights, but I'm basing my views on the general principle that it will be similar to the Chaos FW Index. Originally I had planned on a HH list with a Lancer HQ, Acheron, two Styrix, and my Atrapos, as I had read that the Castigator didn't really perform well compared to the others. With the rules in 8th though, I think the Castigator really got a good boost- what with not having to charge at units it shot at, and the warblade is very close to the same stats as the Lancer's shock lance.

 

Thus my dilemma; I can get four Knights, but  don't really know what to get. I want at least one Styrix (that I will magnetize to be able to field as a Styrix or any regular Knight variant) but other than not wanting a Magaera (just never really like it) I don't have an idea of what to get. Any advice or comments about the Knight classes themselves or a purchasing plan? Thanks!

 

[Lord Blackwood]

I am looking at 

Lancer 
Errant
Atropos 
Paladin  

at 100 power Level 


and 

Lancer
Paladin 
Errant 
Atropos
Castigator
Acheron 

at 150 power level 

My First Glance at the  FW knights leads me to  these conclusions

" So after a quick look through at the Forgeworld knights for 8th

All of the Cerastus models are reasonably power leveled and fairly comparable to their plastic brethren. The lancer the castigator and the Atropos all looking really good same with the Acheron they handled it's loss of a hellstorm template well.

Though the Atropos has a pretty big power level difference of 29 I think it's one of the most dangerous of its kin.

The Big guy with the two big guns is still ass at 40 power level ( same as a falchion) but no where near as much offensive power on its main guns.

The Styrix and Megara are both still very Meh I don't think I'll be picking them up as in both 30 and 40k they just aren't worth my time. " 

Of course these are first glance conclusions , maybe after a bit more thorough a reading ill have a different idea of what I want to do 

Edited June 23, 2017 by Lord Blackwood

[Riot Earp]

Realy interested in the Stats from Atrapos.

What weapons has he now?

[Charlo]

At work so no book on me right now, but they are BRUTAL.

[Spanish_Muffin]

Realy interested in the Stats from Atrapos.

What weapons has he now?

 

Atropos Lascutter (shooting) 9", Heavy 1, s12, AP-4, 6 damage 

Atropos Lascutter (melee) Melee, s14, AP-4, 6 damage.

 

Rules: If you kill a vehicle or monster in the shooting phase, you may make another attack against a separate target (not stacking). You may reroll failed hit and wound rolls against monsters, buildings or vehicles when using either shooting or melee profile.

 

Graviton Singularity Cannon: 36", Heavy 4, s8, AP-3, 3 damage

 

Rules: Roll a D6 before this weapon is fired, on a 1 take a mortal wound and fire normally. On a 2-5, fire normally. On a 6, double the profile (s16, Ap-4, 6 damage).

 

Titanic Feet

 

 

 

On top of that, he enemy units subtract 1 leadership when within 6" of him, he has a 4++ in shooting and 5++ in melee. Can heal on a 6 at the start of each turn. Add 1 to hit against other titans. Flank speed 2D6 advancement. All the basic titan rules of fallback. Can also shoot while in melee with INFANTRY (can shoot anyone, not just the group he's in melee with). And Unstable Reactor explosion on a  5+.

 

 

 

Currently, I'm fielding (at 2000 pts);

 

Atropos

Castigator

Warden with Stormspear Rockets

Gallant with Stormspear Rockets

 

Which come in at exactly 2000 points.

 

 

I'm working on adding a Porphyrion soon, who seems overcosted (835 pts, fully kitted), but the rule of cool calls to me.  

Edited June 24, 2017 by Spanish_Muffin

[Lord Blackwood]

I feel like the Gallant is a waste of points ,  the loss of the extra attack and the lack of meaningful shooting makes it considerably less attractive than its kinsmen 

[Spanish_Muffin]

I feel like the Gallant is a waste of points ,  the loss of the extra attack and the lack of meaningful shooting makes it considerably less attractive than its kinsmen 

While that is certainly true, with the points restriction that the other Knights in the list cause, the only replacement is a bare-bones Knight Errant. The Gallant with Stormspear (434) being replaced for a Thermal Cannon (430). 

 

While this is a change that certainly can be made, I sometimes wonder if I would prefer keep the 48" range and guaranteed 3 shots of the stormspear, over the 36" D3 of the Errant...

 

...that and I don't have the Errant.

 

Neither him nor his point-based replacement really make me satisfied with the filler knight space.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Spanish_Muffin

[Emicus]

How does the castigator work now?

[Captain_Krash]

@Lord Blackwood I don't think you can doubt the effectiveness of the Gallant. Its a simple tactic. Get to the enemy. The opponent cannot ignore it so it's going to soak up lots of fire power and it will reach combat by turn two maybe even turn 1 depending. It can take on infantry with ease and especially vehicles. Its cheap and very effective especially working in multiples.

 

Give it a shot on the battlefield it may sway your opinion

 

Krash  

[Charlo]

Gallant is a big thing that your opponent needs to kill or they will lose thier big thing/ multiple other things.

 

Thats about it really.

[Lord Blackwood]

Its effectiveness is no greater than any other knight in close combat.

 

At the same time it has no significant defensive bonuses to speak of.

 

It lacks terribly in ranged combat.

 

Right now the only thing going for it is price.

 

When if comes to close combat specialist knights I feel like the lancer is the far more attractive choice. With increased durability speed and while quite marginal in the shooting department atleast it has something.

 

In 7th the gallant was carried by the fact that it could swing a bunch of str d attacks and kill what it was in combat with. That and it was cheap compared to its kinsmen. On the whole Knights have become a touch less effective in close combat and we lose 1 of them in building toward 2k due to the way points have increased.

 

My experience this edition small though it may be leads me to believe that titanic feet is gonna be used a lot. Whole your reaper or gauntlet is going to be for specific uses. I don't think the gallant properly fits the paradigm shift.

[Captain_Krash]

Knights have become waaaay more effective in CC now. I took out a full marine squad with one Paladin using it's feet which it didn't have that option in 7th...

 

The thing is you have options now for CC.

 

Feet vs. Lots of infantry

Gauntlet vs. High toughness vehicles/infantry

Chainsword vs. Vehicles/infantry

 

You can split your attacks now anyway you want so you have more options depending on where the Knight is on the battlefield.

 

Krash

[Lord Blackwood]

And there in lies the comparison , you have feet on everyone , knights with guns will also have the sword , AND  a ranged weapon  

The combat effectiveness of a Gallant is not superior to any other knights and its drawbacks are essentially a lack of a role when its not in combat 

Its only draw is that its cheap. 

[Captain_Krash]

But your totally missing how cool it looks...

 

Krash 

[Lord Blackwood]

Oh no  doubt ,  the gallant is pretty hype Ive still got to switch mine over to the house blackwood scheme. 

I love my Gallant , I  just dunno  if I want to put it on the table in lieu  of my other options 

[Captain_Krash]

Haha I get what your saying though. The negatives do out weigh the positives but I'll be damned if I don't try to beat the odds 

 

Krash 

[Riot Earp]

 

Realy interested in the Stats from Atrapos.

What weapons has he now?

 

 

Atropos Lascutter (shooting) 9", Heavy 1, s12, AP-4, 6 damage 

Atropos Lascutter (melee) Melee, s14, AP-4, 6 damage.Rules: If you kill a vehicle or monster in the shooting phase, you may make another attack against a separate target (not stacking). You may reroll failed hit and wound rolls against monsters, buildings or vehicles when using either shooting or melee profile.

Graviton Singularity Cannon: 36", Heavy 4, s8, AP-3, 3 damageRules: Roll a D6 before this weapon is fired, on a 1 take a mortal wound and fire normally. On a 2-5, fire normally. On a 6, double the profile (s16, Ap-4, 6 damage).

Titanic Feet

On top of that, he enemy units subtract 1 leadership when within 6" of him, he has a 4++ in shooting and 5++ in melee. Can heal on a 6 at the start of each turn. Add 1 to hit against other titans. Flank speed 2D6 advancement. All the basic titan rules of fallback. Can also shoot while in melee with INFANTRY (can shoot anyone, not just the group he's in melee with). And Unstable Reactor explosion on a  5+.

Currently, I'm fielding (at 2000 pts);

Atropos

Castigator

Warden with Stormspear Rockets

Gallant with Stormspear Rockets

Which come in at exactly 2000 points.

I'm working on adding a Porphyrion soon, who seems overcosted (835 pts, fully kitted), but the rule of cool calls to me.

Muchas gracias. :D

[Lord_Ikka]

Got the new FW Index. So I think I'm going to do this- buy an Acheron, Castigator, 2x Styrix. That gives me the option to basically transform the Styrix into any regular Knights via magnets.

 

I like the Lancer, but I think both the Acheron and Castigator outperform it unless you are specifically targeting Titanic creatures (even then the Castigator's warblade ability against Vehicles makes it a wash). I like the more all-around aspect of the other two because I most likely to fight a variety of units rather than Titanic units.

 

I really like the Styrix, with the Ionic Flare Shield and Empyreal Prey Sight it is a nasty power-armor killer. On the other hand, I don't get the Magaera- it is a higher point cost/power level than the Styrix for very little benefit that I can see. The lightning cannon vs volkite chieorovile is pretty darn close- the volkite is stronger by 1, better armor pen (unless the cannon hits a 6), has higher potential damage, and gets possible extra hits while the lightning cannon has more shots by 1, 3" better range, and can possibly gain the same armor pen on 6s.

[Breakthrough]

What do ya think guys,

 

Astrapos

Castigator

Acheron

 

On how much points comes this ( i think around 1500) and do ya think it could be effektiv?

[Spanish_Muffin]

What do ya think guys,

 

Astrapos

Castigator

Acheron

 

On how much points comes this ( i think around 1500) and do ya think it could be effektiv?

That comes to 1550 points. 

[fedratsailor]

Atrapos/Acheron/Lancer/Warden

 

or

 

Paladin(Stormspear), Paladin(Stormspear), Warden(Stormspear), Warden(Ironstorm)

 

those are the 2 lists I'm thinking about.

[Lord_Ikka]

Well, turns out I'm getting a Warhound Titan instead of the Knights. Quick question on this- reading the rules, it seems that as long as I'm using the Titan in the correct slot (Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, as I only have the one) I can field the Warhound, with no additional rules/permissions needed. Is this correct?

[CommodusXIII]

Yes, though individual events may place additional limitations on list-building. Also, at least in my circles, it would be bad form to field a Titan in "normal" games without at least warning the opposition.

[Vel'Cona]

I think a lot of folks are underestimating the impact of Supersonic Flyers as 8th edition develops.  IK can actually factor in reasonably nicely with the carapace Autocannon since they'll be hitting even Supersonics on 3s (BS 3+, -1 for Supersonic, +1 for the weapon vs. Fly) and they can mow down other Fly units (such as Assault Marines, Gargoyles, etc.) on 2s.  And they're pretty cheap, too!

[momerathe]

I like the Lancer, but I think both the Acheron and Castigator outperform it unless you are specifically targeting Titanic creatures (even then the Castigator's warblade ability against Vehicles makes it a wash). I like the more all-around aspect of the other two because I most likely to fight a variety of units rather than Titanic units.

 

The big thing about the Lancer IMO is the 4++ during the Fight phase. And its shooting is..  not terrible. Okay, it's pretty bad. But the invul makes it a lot safer to fighter some of the more dangerous melee specialists.

 

 

I think a lot of folks are underestimating the impact of Supersonic Flyers as 8th edition develops.  IK can actually factor in reasonably nicely with the carapace Autocannon since they'll be hitting even Supersonics on 3s (BS 3+, -1 for Supersonic, +1 for the weapon vs. Fly) and they can mow down other Fly units (such as Assault Marines, Gargoyles, etc.) on 2s.  And they're pretty cheap, too!

 

It's counter-intuitive, but against multi-wound models, the Stormspear will do more wounds to flyers, airborne or no, than the Icarus Autocannon, 

Edited July 5, 2017 by momerathe