DKoK in 8th!

[DietOfLiquor]

So, for those of you that have seen the book. Looks like Krieg will be good in 8th!

 

What's standing out to you guys? Me. I'm looking at death riders as a serious viable option now!

[Withershadow]

Eh, they are okay.  The special perk is nice, but the troops are more expensive.  They can't take many regular IG options with the rules as written, including the bulk of artillery options.  With vehicles it doesn't matter, since you can just bring them as Imperial models, but the rapiers/platforms that used to be Krieg specialties will have to use generic IG rules to be brought alongside Death Korps.  Can't even put engineers into Hades drills. :(

 

Conscripts, deep striking storm troopers, and artillery batteries with regular IG seems definitely stronger than slightly more expensive Guard squads with single special weapons.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Withershadow

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Eh, they are okay.  The special perk is nice, but the troops are more expensive.  They can't take many regular IG options with the rules as written, including the bulk of artillery options.  With vehicles it doesn't matter, since you can just bring them as Imperial models, but the rapiers/platforms that used to be Krieg specialties will have to use generic IG rules to be brought alongside Death Korps.  Can't even put engineers into Hades drills.

 

Conscripts, deep striking storm troopers, and artillery batteries with regular IG seems definitely stronger than slightly more expensive Guard squads with single special weapons.

 

I think you are very wrong about this. There's a big list of stuff, outside the DK specific items, that they can take and apply the "Death Korps of Krieg" <regiment> type to.  Rapier and Hades Drill squadron are both on that list.  Most of the other artillery is there as well.

 

Conscripts are not on that list however, but as you say, you could take them as generic IG.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Mitchverr]

Personally I am liking the idea of combo running a spam of kreig squads with Venner and another commander to give multiple orders to the infantry with an advance force of cavalry and grenadiers in centaurs, if I am reading the rules correctly, you can basically scout move the centaurs forwards 9 inches now right?

 

Also, 2 heavy stubbers on the centuars and the possible hunter killer, are they now pretty viable? The grenadiers do seem to be wanting to kit out for close range brawling and with a few centaurs could hold your enemy in position while your new age forlorne hope is pushing forwards. At half the price of a chimera before additional kit being added on (hunter killers are a thing) they might have become pretty interesting to use and seems to combo well with the grenadiers pricetag (ie a squad of grenadiers and centaur being the price of a chimera i think?). If they return heavy flamers to the grenadiers, this could prove to be a very deadly little combo unit.

 

 

Heavy weapons wise however, what would be peoples go to weapon in the current "viewing" of the general Krieg force, it seems to want to mass infantry and be very combat focused, possibly mortars to try and help cut some of the spam units the other side has with some autocannons to help out? Though I am waiting to see if the twin stubbers of 7e return to the field, as they seem price wise to be a pretty cost efficient force if they do come back (i really dont like that they dont have them in there right now, i assume its an error but who knows).

 

 

Also, aint regular troopers cheaper then they used to be? By a fair margin? The only cost going up forces being riders?

Edited June 23, 2017 by Mitchverr

[CrazyDA]

Laughing that they somehow forgot to put the Medusa Carriage on the list of things that gets the Krieg rule. They make a crew for the model, you would think that it would be no-brainer. I think it's a typo by Forge World.

[Withershadow]

I think for an extra point, Militarum Tempestus is a better way to run the Grenadiers.

 

The Storm Chimeras are nice and make decent transports for Engineers (those carcass shells are brutal!), while leaving enough room to add in a Field Commander.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I'm apparently going to have to use my Chimeras as Storm Chimeras for my Inquisition force, because that's the only way I can use the autocannon turrets.  Granted, I can see an Inquisitor claiming a pair of Chimeras with extra armor against small arms fire because well, reasons, but it's irritating that it's the only way to get autocannon turrets.

[Withershadow]

I assume in order to take the ablative armor and mile plow upgrade, you have to buy the bits for your Chimeras?

[Inquisitor Fox]

I always used the dozer blade in the kit (which has no other in game effect nowadays) and put on the track guards and such from the kit.  All of these upgrades are inconsequential ruleswise, but since there are no mine plow kits or anything else really, they would represent it well enough.

 

The bigger annoyance is the vehicles would be Krieg regiment, but ironically ruleswise for vehicles it doesn't really make a big difference as far as I can tell.

[Withershadow]

So many silly typos in here.

 

Hades Drill Veterans cost like veterans and are called veterans, but have regular guardsmen stats. BUT, their overcharged plasma guns do 3 damage instead of 2.

 

Death Korps Command Squads have two members who can take special weapons without giving up their lasguns.  The mole mortar and heavy flamer upgrade for engineers seems to also leave both of them with shotguns intact (so they could fire both shotguns and the heavy weapon RAW).

[Are Verlo]

And it seems they forgott to add the "one of this model" to marshal Venner? As of now my supreme command detatchment is suffering from spilt personality with 3 - 5 marshals

[Ogedei Khan]

Can't use a gorgon for my krieg any more despite the damn thing being loaded out with krieg crew.

[Mitchverr]

Can't use a gorgon for my krieg any more despite the damn thing being loaded out with krieg crew.

 

This seems a problem all over the place for krieg.

 

heavy artillery has krieg crew, was sold with them for 10 years, every photoshoot they worked together, suddenly nope?

twin heavy stubber suddenly not a thing anymore. Perhaps they mean for us to use solo stubber but, that makes little sense.

grenadiers no longr able to take heavy stubber trooper nor take heavy flamer, models still sold though as grenadiers.

hades cant take its shotgun boys into shotgun range, still sold with them though.

As said above, wierd rules dotted around of troops not having to give up weapons while others do (eg death rider squad lead gives up their lance while regular rough rider dont).

 

 

To me it feels like they got somebody in to right the rules, told them "this is their generic history and rulebook" and then didnt fact check him when he forgot half the fluff of the army,I mean hell, the things i mentioned above aint even OP, they were just what made the army unique yet they are suddenly gone.

 

 

 

And it seems they forgott to add the "one of this model" to marshal Venner? As of now my supreme command detatchment is suffering from spilt personality with 3 - 5 marshals

 

All the Venners, all the time! We are totally not a clone army!

 

 

I think for an extra point, Militarum Tempestus is a better way to run the Grenadiers.

 

The Storm Chimeras are nice and make decent transports for Engineers (those carcass shells are brutal!), while leaving enough room to add in a Field Commander.

 

I think that all depends on what you want to do really, the Tempestus are a little more interesting for a drop and kill, though I like the idea of Grenadiers charging in centaurs just from a fluff side of things (and they can suffer some losses and hold ground!). Especially seems a fun way to push forwards and force your enemy to deal with grenadiers in his face while cavalry is a step behind them and infantry wave is following up.

 

As for the engineers, I am fuzzy on how stuff works currently, if you took say a heavy flamer with them (i love me heavy flamers) can you move and shoot it, given its a heavy weapon that always hits? Still looking to get hold of the rulebook (more... lazy and need to go buy it).

 

 

edit: Just curious, as Kriegers, can we use the generic AM orders on top of our orders? I would say no given crossover, but some people seem to think it possible.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Mitchverr

[The Prince]

Definitely feel theres some serious typos with the Kriegers/the index as a whole. Neither the DKK or Elysians can take a whole series of units that there previously were models for, nor LOW (but I guess their kinda their own detachment now?). The artillery carriages, commissar general, cyclops, gorgon etc all have krieger models and are still on sale, so I can only imagine someone cocked up.

 

Also, sounds daft but I kinda miss thw separation between the siege and assault armies. Maybe just me idk.

 

However, theres definitely some great buffs - the Quartermaster dismissing nearby wounds on a 6+ on top of any other save is nice. We can finally benefit from FNP!

 

Also Mitchverr - no we can only use Krieger orders - Im sure it flat out says so.

[Beaky Brigade]

Can't use a gorgon for my krieg any more despite the damn thing being loaded out with krieg crew.

 

I can just imagine bringing one to a game and someone taking one look and shaking their head 'darn power gamers, always cheating.'

[The Pounder]

Personally, I'm well chuffed! Everything I was planning on running is there!

Also although we've lost some of the flavour that came with having 2 separate lists now we gained so much.

You can run a static gunline or a force of manoeuvre, it's totally up to you!

I'm thinking of doing both! A mobile Deathriders platoon (using the outriders detachment to run 3 squadrons, a squadron commander and command squadron) with additional rule Flanking Manoeuvres they can all start in reserve ready to come on on any board edge when the time is right!

I'll form a static section with the infantry and field artillery (quadlaunchers are evil!) to hold the line.

I'm looking forward to the FAQ where (hopefully)we will be allowed to take the Heavy Artillery Carriages once more!

As is, I see a lot of fun coming my way with the new options and I fully intend to enjoy 8th!!

[Harrowmaster]

Also of note is the hot shot lasguns in the ranged weapons list. I'll probably take a few in the infantry squads.

[Mitchverr]

To be honest, alot of my early misgivings on heavy artillery not being there are kind of well, subsiding, the main 2 things I would get them for would be covered by anti tank troops or if we get a ruling on it, twin linked heavy stubber squads (anti inf/anti tank). If we dont get it to return, would mortars be a suitable unit or should i just go big with something like heavy mortar/quads? I am also thinking bombards possibly.

 

Thats the main thing I would like to see return, twin stubber teams because I loooove the model.

 

As for manouvres, I am still really sticking to the centaur+grenadier combo, ability to move a bunch of cheap 5 man hotshot lasguns into rapid fire range of enemy scouts or units on their start line seems really appealing to me though I still aint sure on it 100%.

 

 

I'm thinking of doing both! A mobile Deathriders platoon (using the outriders detachment to run 3 squadrons, a squadron commander and command squadron) with additional rule Flanking Manoeuvres they can all start in reserve ready to come on on any board edge when the time is right!

 

As for this bit, according to the way I read the rules, if you pick a death rider command squad unit, you can pick up to 5 other squads of riders to give flank to, just incase that is appealing in any way.

 

 

BTW I have also been looking at the quatermaster rules, seems very appealing with reguards to resurrecting special weapon guys with his medi-pack, worth bringing along these days?

Edited June 24, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Withershadow]

The medipack is interesting now, and I'm contemplating it as a good addition to a Stormtrooper command squad, since you can bring back all those special weapon guys.

 

The Quartermaster is more interesting still, since his servitors throw out a defense aura. Issue is how easy it is to snipe him out, so this would best work with a large number (4-6) infantry squads wrapped as walls around them.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I'm really unclear as to what's what in these IG books.

 

So did FW or GW make a conquerer battlecannon? Same for Storm chimera? What about the stormhammer, can that be made from the baneblade kit? What is the Ryza turret?

 

Thanks.

[micahwc]

Storm chimera is a GW chimera with a forgeworld autocannon turret. Ryza Russ is a forgeworld leman Russ turret I think. Not sure about the others.

[micahwc]

I'm confused why there are earthshaker batteries and earthshaker carriages. The only difference I see is that the battery has no crew and the carriage does. Crew seem like a disadvantage to me, am I wrong?

[micdicdoc]

@Gunzhard, like @micahwc said, practically all of the entries in this book pertain to Forge World products, regardless of whether they are currently in production or out of production. In particular, the Leman Russ Conqueror used to be made by FW, but is currently OOP. The Stormhammer has been about for a while, but couldn't be fielded in 7th because it was Horus Heresy only - but it's super cool now that you can actually field it! :D

 

As for the Ryza variant of Russ it is the one that is fielded by the DKOK, again, currently available from FW. One interesting thing to notice though is that it has a separate entry in the book to the Stygies Vanquisher Russ. The difference being in coaxial weapons; the Stygies Vanquisher can only have a coaxial storm bolter, whereas the Ryza Vanquisher is the only one with access to a coaxial heavy stubber. Something that struck me as quite odd when I seen it.

 

@micahwc, like the inclusion of the Sabre Platforms, Macharius Omega and LR Conqueror, the rules for the now OOP Earthshaker Battery have now been included. I think prior to release that FW said they would include the rules for some old models for anyone who still had them! I'm really regretting selling my Omega now, haha :'(

[major higgins]

I'm building a list of krieg... I cannot decide myself on a point: In a pretty static list is better a Grenadiers squad with a junior officer mounted in a storm chimera, or is better a small force of scion... three squad with a couple of plasma each supported by a tempestor prime?

 

I do not like 5 men squad of grenadiers in Centaur, because I feel that they lack the capability to punch hard... Ok, they're quick and they can shot as Scion do, but without specific orders plasma is not so definitive, and only 5 men a little could do in melee. So I will skip this choice and look at one of the previous two.

 

The first option allow me a kind of counterstrike unit to cover the flank non covered by death riders, the second one, on the other hands, allow me to grab objective in Maelstrom, or to strike where I really need it and act a distraction for the enemy... he must react to a massive drop in his rear!

 

But... The first one is more fluffy and more... krieg...

 

Dubts...dubts...

[Beaky Brigade]

I'm confused why there are earthshaker batteries and earthshaker carriages. The only difference I see is that the battery has no crew and the carriage does. Crew seem like a disadvantage to me, am I wrong?

 

IIRC batteries are the very very oop models that were earth shaker platforms mounted on 4 legs. The crew are part of the model on a platform behind the gun like on the chimera mounted version.

 

@micdicdoc Yes they've been good about oop models, they even have the dominous triple bombard, which was a planned but never produced CRASSUS/ Praetor variant, presumably to be kind to anyone who converted one. Speaking of the Praetor, it appears to be able to choose between standard, AA and flame missiles every time it fires.

 

It's quite funny how the fluff about the Imperium losing its tech becomes more true with each oop FW model.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Beaky Brigade