Fluff on 'failed' Primarchs in Dark Imperium

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

People still haven't gotten the memo that the "UM took in the survivors" was nothing more than an in-universe *rumour*, and thus as truthful as an Inquisitor telling you that there was no daemonic incursion on Armageddon, why would you even suggest such a thing?

[Scammel]

I'm sure that as a mere in-universe rumour, there was no point in the author bringing it up. Nope, no narrative value in even suggesting it. I'm sure we're intended to laugh and scoff at this fleeting mention of one of the most mysterious elements of the 40k backstory. Definitely not a device to hint at the fate of the lost legions while maintaining plausible deniability. Never that.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

I'm sure that as a mere in-universe rumour, there was no point in the author bringing it up. Nope, no narrative value in even suggesting it. I'm sure we're intended to laugh and scoff at this fleeting mention of one of the most mysterious elements of the 40k backstory. Definitely not a device to hint at the fate of the lost legions while maintaining plausible deniability. Never that.

Last time I checked, the author himself came out and said something to the effect of "guys, he was talking out of his arse, let it go."

 

So yeah.

[Scammel]

A link would be great.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Scammel

[Teetengee]

A link would be great, as would your apology for your utterly condescending tone.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211829-ultramarines-references-in-the-horus-heresy-series/?p=2526272

[Scammel]

Many thanks.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Scammel

[Kastor Krieg]

Many thanks. Now I'll await that apology from Ezra for being treated like an idiot for not seeing a forum post from 2010.

You might need to stomp your feet a little bit more for that, I think. Pursing your lips and folding your arms might help, too.

[Teetengee]

 

Many thanks. Now I'll await that apology from Ezra for being treated like an idiot for not seeing a forum post from 2010.

You might need to stomp your feet a little bit more for that, I think. Pursing your lips and folding your arms might help, too.

 

It's definitely not the first time I've seen it linked in the forums...

 

Additionally, I don't think Ezra was being rude when he said:

-snip-thus as truthful as an Inquisitor telling you that there was no daemonic incursion on Armageddon, why would you even suggest such a thing?

I think the issue might be that he wrote:

Inquisitor telling you that "there was no daemonic incursion on Armageddon, why would you even suggest such a thing?"

but you read this:

Inquisitor telling you that "there was no daemonic incursion on Armageddon," why would you even suggest such a thing?

Maybe just me though.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Teetengee

[SpAcEGhOsT095]

They could have been worse at their jobs than Lorgar, before Monarchia. I think I remember seeing something written online by A D-B, the Emperor told Ra that the greatest sin was failure. They very well could have went the way of Legio IX Hispana, it supposedly went into Scotland and was never heard from again.

[Scammel]

 

 

Many thanks. Now I'll await that apology from Ezra for being treated like an idiot for not seeing a forum post from 2010.

You might need to stomp your feet a little bit more for that, I think. Pursing your lips and folding your arms might help, too.

 

It's definitely not the first time I've seen it linked in the forums...

 

Additionally, I don't think Ezra was being rude when he said:

-snip-thus as truthful as an Inquisitor telling you that there was no daemonic incursion on Armageddon, why would you even suggest such a thing?

I think the issue might be that he wrote:

Inquisitor telling you that "there was no daemonic incursion on Armageddon, why would you even suggest such a thing?"

but you read this:

Inquisitor telling you that "there was no daemonic incursion on Armageddon," why would you even suggest such a thing?

Maybe just me though.

 

Ah, that'll be it. Comments retracted.

 

​Though quotation marks would have helped in the first instance.

[FuriousFerret]

Sigmar wasn't II or XI, he was the Third triplet of the XX, Sigma.

That's so bad it's good, and so good I hope no one from GW ever reads this. =]I[= By the authority of this seal, initiate protocol psw-d-476. Henchmen, take him away.

 

(And by bad I mean it's still a Nobel Prize in Literature-level effort compared to the justification for Primaris marines: "Heeyyy y'all, Deus ex Machina here, I've been hiding under a stasis shield for ten millenia building space narines, coz yo Dawg, I hear you like space marines, so we put a space marine inside a space marine so you can space marine while you space marine. Now let me resurrect you, Big G, and turn over the legions of extra super space marines and super gear I've been stockpiling.")

Edited June 26, 2017 by RRChristensen

[Scammel]

Actually, on that point, at face vaue it seems a little inconsistent from ADB, no? He's always strongly espoused the 'Nothing is canon, legends, myths and hints are all we have, read between the lines etc.' mantra, which I strongly subscribe to. Thus, I've always figured that the typical BL author trick is to throw around titbits through unreliable narrators in order to give form to a dramatic new truth while hiding behind plausible deniability - nudge-nudge wink-wink. Strikes me as odd for an author to come out and simply declare 'Yeah, they made that up, canon is real'.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Scammel

[Teetengee]

Actually, on that point, at face vaue it seems a little inconsistent from ADB, no? He's always strongly espoused the 'Nothing is canon, legends, myths and hints are all we have, read between the lines etc.' mantra, which I strongly subscribe to. Thus, I've always figured that the typical BL author trick is throw around titbits through unreliable narrators in order to give form to a dramatic new truth while hiding behind plausible deniability - nudge-nudge wink-wink. Strikes me as odd for an author to come out and simply declare 'Yeah, they made that up, canon is real'.

I don't think ADB ever said that it was completely impossible. The point was though that the person who said it in universe had absolutely no evidence and an axe to grind. Still could be true in the "just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you" sense.

[jeffersonian000]

People tend to think the narrative they are being told is the truth, when in fact its just the narrative they are being told. 40k is future mythology, dramatized for our enjoyment. There are no truths, no canon, just narrative and embellishment. And quite a bit of "Oh Snap!", which is why we love it.

 

SJ

[m0nolith]

Horus Heresy, book 7

It's alluded to that one of the Legions was lost in the Rangdan Xenocides.

Supposedly taken control by the Xenos there, and had to be put down by Russ and maybe The Lion.

[Veteran Sergeant]

One guy had an interesting idea that one of the primarch got infected by a genestealer cult.

I mean, that would predate the earliest canonical examples of genestealer cults by over 9,000 years, but hey, why not?

[FuriousFerret]

 

One guy had an interesting idea that one of the primarch got infected by a genestealer cult.

I mean, that would predate the earliest canonical examples of genestealer cults by over 9,000 years, but hey, why not?

 

 

Que ~seven people furiously typing out all the bits and hints and suppositions available. Catachan Devils, Fenris Krakens, mysterious lines from novels mated to wishful thinking, and so on and so forth. But yeah, not a lot of canon there. But then again, no reason to suppose Games Workshop wouldn't go there. And after all, "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past", and there are no prizes for guessing who's in charge.

[Kinstryfe]

Re: survivors absorbed by XIII.

 

I've come to take that as pretty much just a rumor in universe, BUT, think it could be awfully neat if a bunch of surviving marines slipped by into the second founding and just claimed eventually that they were UM successors. Head out to the fringes, don't meet up with that many other UM successors for a few hundred years, and you could slip by pretty easily. Heck, I've long been of the opinion that a lot of those chapters with "stable geneseed but deviate from their founders" could belong to any stable legion, whether it's mutated XIII, stabilized IX, regular XIII or even just II in plain sight.

[FuriousFerret]

That's my headcanon, too.

[Veteran Sergeant]

 

 

Que 

What?

[FuriousFerret]

 

 

 

 

 

Que

What?

Ah. Cue, not que. 'Twas a long day, brother.

[Knight of the Raven]

I vaguely recall A D-B wishing he had never included this bit of world-building in The First Heretic precisely because everyone latched onto this rumor like it was the trufaxest trufax to have ever trufaxed. I'd look for the post (if it actually exists) but I have no idea what to even put in the search engine in the first place.

 

 

 

One guy had an interesting idea that one of the primarch got infected by a genestealer cult.

I mean, that would predate the earliest canonical examples of genestealer cults by over 9,000 years, but hey, why not?

Que ~seven people furiously typing out all the bits and hints and suppositions available. Catachan Devils, Fenris Krakens, mysterious lines from novels mated to wishful thinking, and so on and so forth. But yeah, not a lot of canon there. But then again, no reason to suppose Games Workshop wouldn't go there. And after all, "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past", and there are no prizes for guessing who's in charge.

Indeed, tyranids got actively involved with the Milky Way a long while later. And it's not even certain genestealers would have existed back then anyway.

 

As for the people you describe, I wish they would realize that automatically considering these species related to tyranids from the start without ever thinking of another possibility is incredibly unimaginative in addition to making the universe extremely smaller. Are you telling me there can only be one species of killer bugs from space in the entire Virgo supercluster?

[Closet Skeleton]

They very well could have went the way of Legio IX Hispana, it supposedly went into Scotland and was never heard from again.

 

The 9th Legion just vanishes from the archaeological and textual records. The 'vanished in Scotland' theory was invented by a Historian out of whole cloth. All is known is that its last known inscription is from the Netherlands around the 120s and by the 190s it didn't appear on lists of the legions anymore. So the lost in Scotland idea is even less valid than the disbanded into the Ultramarines idea because the 40k version actually has textual references.

 

But legions got disbanded quite often and there are quite a few that just stop appearing in records so its the 9th isn't that mysterious.

[Red_Shift]

In the original eye of terror codex there was a snippet about enormous losses in the maelstrom during the great crusade so eventually the imperium gave up trying to conquer it and just quarantined it. I've always felt that would be a good setting for a lost primarch and legion. Literally lost and some survivors get absorbed into the unrestrained.

[bluntblade]

I think that's what Athrawes did with the Lightning Bearers, in part