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Unit of the Week: Terminators

Unit of the Week 8th Space Marines 8th Edition

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#1
Acebaur

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So this week we'll be discussing another iconic unit, the Terminators!  Now coming in 4 different flavors and with the extra durability of a 2nd wound and the extra firepower of the combi/storm bolter, they seem to be quite formidable this edition. Another boost to them is the fact that they can now teleport without worry of mishaps and can then also charge on the same turn. 

 

I recall a gigantic thread that took place during 7th that discussed what to do about them to make them better. So has 8th brought about the return of the terminator? Do you think the changes are enough? What tactics and unit loadouts will you be using with them? Do you feel the new AP system helps them or hurts them?

 

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#2
Claws and Effect

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What they did is actually a nice compromise of the various suggestions people had.

The durability concerns were twofold.

The additional wound helped some, and the other concern was actually addressed when they changed how AP works. There were just too many AP2 weapons that made a mockery of the supposedly toughest armor available to the Imperium.

All in all, they aren't quite perfect, but they are much closer to being the implacable monsters they're portrayed as in the fluff.

I give GW's efforts an A- pn this one.

#3
Tyberos the Red Wake

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They also did the deep strike fixes that made it accurate and reliable.


"Grey-clad, they came from the outer night to aid the Imperium, and their jagged maw did swallow the stars, and their black gaze did mirror the void of oblivion."

- The Canticle of Cassandria Lev - Vol.CVI [Circa M37]


#4
Captain Idaho

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Terminators are genuinely dangerous. They no longer "strike last" and that means will hit like a megaton of bricks on the charge now.

On their own they die fairly easily to anti tank weapons but that's the beauty of this edition - taking a combined arms style of army with vehicles, infantry and Terminators (infantry tanks) means opponents can't just concentrate on the Terminators who just dropped in amongst them.

#5
DBadger

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My only termie came free with White Dwarf. It didn't inspire me to get further models, had a very static pose. Have kits improved since then? (Would probably be around the time of the DA codex in 2007). I also have a lead made one but it's missing an arm and looks even more static!

I love the look of them with storm shields, just don't know if they're worth it as a combat option. But those shields add so much to a Templar army.

#6
LucidNinja

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Standard Indo terminators seem like the worst pick of this edition, assault cannons being there only upside, the teleport homer is kinda cool but situational at best. They are out shot by the more mobile tartaros and out toughed by the cataphractii and assault variants. I'm using 20 tartaros and a (non)tartaros captain though so I might be a little bias hah

#7
Ebon Hand

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I was thinking the same about Tartaros being superior in mobility to Indomnitus Terminators, but don't count out the homer. You could drop in, charge and destroy a squad, then teleport to safety before they get killed by an anti elite unit, rejoin your main army to be used as a counter charge unit and/or deal with a backfield threat.

Edited by Ebon Hand, 28 June 2017 - 06:41 PM.

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#8
Firepower

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So which are best by roles?  Which is best for assault, for shooty, etc.?

 

I haven't so much as glanced at Terminators in years.  Now seems like a proper time to reevaluate that habit.  It looks like the basic Assault Terminators can up their durability with Shields without compromising face smashing potential, but are outdone at shooting across the board?  And Tartaros seem to be the most shooty-capable.


Edited by Firepower, 28 June 2017 - 09:31 PM.

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#9
Freman Bloodglaive

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I haven't played a game in 8th yet, but theory-hammering, storm shield terminators are still good for being hard to remove, indeed with two wounds they're twice as hard to remove with basic weapons as they were before. As said already they can have a reliable deep strike exactly 9 inches from the enemy, and if you're very lucky you might even get to charge with them that turn. The basic shooty terminator is the cheapest base cost and have the options of cyclone and assault cannon, which are nice.

 

Tartaros are what I would take if I were taking lightning claws. They're just a bit faster than Indomitus terminators meaning that if they have to run somewhere they'll get there sooner. That said, I like the reaper autocannon option.

 

Cataphractii have only the heavy flamer as a weapons upgrade, which is a bit of a bummer, and they are the slowest terminator variant, but they do have a 4+ invulnerable save, making them just a tad more durable against powerful weapons than the other (non-storm shield) varieties. I like the ability to take a single lightning claw in the off-hand to keep the cost of the unit down.

 

My inclination is to set up most terminators that don't have storm shields primarily for ranged combat since that means they'll always be able to affect the battle provided there are enemies within 24 inches. That said I do have piles of terminators thanks to raiding eBay, so I should probably paint them all and get them on the table.


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#10
Kierdale

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I look forward to getting my ranged Indomi' onto the battlefield too. I made them with the option for assault cannon or flamer but now wonder if I should have made them (or should make a second squad) with launcher so I can try to drop them near an exposed character and put the hurt on right away.

I don't want to ask how long a piece of string is, but how would you arm a 5-man Indo' assault squad? What balance of hammers to claws?
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#11
Ebon Hand

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I personally arm my assault squad with 3 lightning claw 2 thunder hammer. If I'm using my Land Raider Crusader I add 2 more lightning claw and a Chaplain.
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#12
Kua

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Depends on their preferred target, I’d say. Hammers have even offensive an advantage against multi-wound targets.

Against a rhino or dread it’s even 1.67 unsaved wounds with hammers against 0.74 with claws.

Against MEQs it’s 0.69 vs 1 dmg, claws being superior due to enemies having only 1W each, but if you take PriMarines the hammers top them already.

 

So, with the high base cost of Indo assault termis and without the Cataphractii 4+ invul (leading to shield being a noticable improvement, not just a little), I’d regard claws mainly as cheaper ablative wounds against low-pen hits to mix into hammers by the smaller half.


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#13
Race Bannon

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I am SUCH a huge fan of Terminators and have lamented their continued weakness for too long.  THIS edition is bringing them back for me.

 

So, although not optimal, my plans are to go claws on my Tartaros.  My Indomitus will get 3xTH, 2xLC.  I plan on a third squad for shooty Indomitus with an AC because that's what I started with when they were released back in RT days.

 

Yeah man, I'm okay with all that.  Doubt I'll ever use more than 1 squad truth be told.  But I might just make a squad a permanent unit in my lists because ... Terminators ^_^


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#14
Tyberos the Red Wake

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Standard Indo terminators seem like the worst pick of this edition, assault cannons being there only upside, the teleport homer is kinda cool but situational at best. They are out shot by the more mobile tartaros and out toughed by the cataphractii and assault variants. I'm using 20 tartaros and a (non)tartaros captain though so I might be a little bias hah

 

If only you could Fall Back and still use the Teleport Homer, then it'd be pretty useful.


"Grey-clad, they came from the outer night to aid the Imperium, and their jagged maw did swallow the stars, and their black gaze did mirror the void of oblivion."

- The Canticle of Cassandria Lev - Vol.CVI [Circa M37]


#15
Lysere

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Standard Indo terminators seem like the worst pick of this edition, assault cannons being there only upside, the teleport homer is kinda cool but situational at best. They are out shot by the more mobile tartaros and out toughed by the cataphractii and assault variants. I'm using 20 tartaros and a (non)tartaros captain though so I might be a little bias hah


If only you could Fall Back and still use the Teleport Homer, then it'd be pretty useful.

Not sure about intent but I'm pretty sure you could use it to get out of combat. So long as they didn't move they can redeploy next to it at the end of the movement phase.
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#16
Tyberos the Red Wake

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I'm not sure how it works, either, I just assumed they can't because of this text in the main rules:

 

Units starting the Movement phase within 1" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or Fall Back.

 

So your only options are to stay in combat or activate a Fall Back move. Here's what the Teleport Homer says:

 

Whilst there are any friendly <CHAPTER> teleport homers on the battlefield, this unit can perform an emergency teleport instead of moving in its Movement phase.

 

Since a unit in melee cannot "move" in its Movement phase (it can only remain stationary or Fall Back), I thought it couldn't do the escape shunt. I'm not sure how it works though.

 

Teleport Homers are SUPER good if you can shunt away in assault. It means if you don't get wiped to the last man, your squads will ALWAYS have at least one survivor to escape to your backrow and perhaps capture some objectives or do other lone hero shenanigans like roadblocking enemies.


"Grey-clad, they came from the outer night to aid the Imperium, and their jagged maw did swallow the stars, and their black gaze did mirror the void of oblivion."

- The Canticle of Cassandria Lev - Vol.CVI [Circa M37]


#17
Kallas

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Teleport Homers are SUPER good if you can shunt away in assault. It means if you don't get wiped to the last man, your squads will ALWAYS have at least one survivor to escape to your backrow and perhaps capture some objectives or do other lone hero shenanigans like roadblocking enemies.


Or back into the waiting, loving arms of an Apothecary :D
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#18
Marshal Wolfhart

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I run a 10man squad of tactical Indomitus patterns, sporting two cyclones as i really love a) the volume of shots and B) the versatility of split fire for the krak shots. Once they are whittled down they can emergency teleport to their homer in the backfield and deliver some support with the cyclones.

Now that i think of it, i always use both, the launcher and the stormbolter at the same time. I will have to check the rulebook concerning firing multiple weapons at once...


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#19
Kua

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You can. Everything you have on the model can fire.

Do you actually use full 10 or 5+5? Because of morale…

 

About the teleport homer it indeed would make them quite interesting if it worked from close combat.


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#20
Kallas

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Do you actually use full 10 or 5+5? Because of morale…


If you don't need the Elite slot filled for the Detachment then take a full 10 and you can just Combat Squad when you want to.

#21
Kua

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Why exactly?

5+5 is even cheaper if you want to use them shooting anyway (sergeant with sword), they almost never have to roll for morale, they can be positioned to not both of them being attacked in CC, they can deepstrike simultaneously whenever and wherever you want (so no disadvantage there)…

What are the benefits of a full 10 unit?


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#22
Kallas

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Why exactly?
5+5 is even cheaper if you want to use them shooting anyway (sergeant with sword), they almost never have to roll for morale, they can be positioned to not both of them being attacked in CC, they can deepstrike simultaneously whenever and wherever you want (so no disadvantage there)…
What are the benefits of a full 10 unit?


I think I worded my response poorly: if your Elite slots are limited then 2x5 squads might not fit in the Detachment you've chosen.

Additionally, having the option to deploy one squad is useful if you're gunning for the first turn.

I don't think it's necessarily the best option, but having the option is certainly useful.

#23
Kua

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Ah, ok.

With the new detachment system it is more often the other way around: You want to fill the slots, unless you have too little HQ for staffing additional detachments.

But the first turn could be a good reason pro big unit.


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#24
MagicMan

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Ive been using a 5 man assault terminator unit with a terminator librarian in support.

 

 

You can deep strike them in, cast the spell that lets them reroll charges (Cant remember the name) and/or might of heroes, which gives +1 Attack/Strength/Toughness and charge in and kill something. Or at least tie up some valuable units.

 

 

Also handy to keep in reserve as a bubblewrap defense. Opponent moves up some assault units towards your shooty firebase? Drop in the assault terminators spread out in front of your line, your opponent now has to somehow go around them, or punch through. Gives you an extra turn of shooting if nothing else. Really enjoying this tactic.


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#25
Marshal Wolfhart

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Librarions are not the reason for a templar to take 10 man squads :P

Actually it's mostly because i can i field 10. there is an argument to be made for character buffs, but that's hardly the reason. I just like it and this edition it's not an autoloose to bring ten in the first place :D


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