Any ideas how to fix (fandex) that insulting RnH "index"?

[Omni]

they broke our legs, the broke our arms they made it all not have any sense, but they can't break our spirits!

 

I have a few ideas:

 

1. Characters keywords to enforcers and commander. Obvious one

2. Enforcer gets some kind of combat drugs injector for one unit in proximity of X, per turn. I dunno how'd they work, maybe something like ogryns have?

3. Militiamen can use autoguns, lasguns or shotguns

4. This will be controversial:

a) Delete cultists

b) BS -1 for 1 power level

c) I also had an idea, of allowing militia fielding one-model heavy stubbers.Maybe the rule "for each 10 guys you can include either 1 HWT HS, or two one-model stubbbers" (With latter ones having worse stats? I dunno honestly, I just think we all want to have guys wielding heavy stubbers, like GSC/Cultists). This one is yet to be given more thought.

 Other things:

 

1. Drastic overhaul of costs

2. Do we want to bring old "25% cheaper vehs with BS2" model back?

 

 

And that'd be all from me I guess...? I don't see any need to change alites. Maybe except from diving power drill from ogryn boss.

[Trystram]

Hope they bring back the cool detachments like the Purge...

[Sception]

They know the work wasn't good, they have an overtaxed team, and one of their people just died, probably best not to take it personally, and there will likely be an faq fixing at least the most obvious issues relatively shortly.

 

I would simply raise BS to be equivalent to guard on the two units where it isn't rather than trying to balance out reduced ballistic skill on the dozens and dozens of units where it is.  That's way too much bother for an effect that basically kills units, especially since weapon options themselves can no longer be priced differently for different models.  ex: I'm not sure I'd buy a BS 5+ lascannon team even if it was only for the cost of the lascannon itself and the team came free.

Edited June 28, 2017 by malisteen

[Omni]

Hope they bring back the cool detachments like the Purge...

Purge was cool, but unending host was cheese incarnated.

[Akrim]

I dont know about a drastic overhaul of costs, but if Militia are staying BS5, they should be 3pts. Really should be WS/BS4 though. As far as HWTs go, weapons costs should be reduced if theyre sticking with BS5, Lascannon = 15pts for example.

 

Obviously fix Marauders, the entry is a mess.

 

Enforcers: Besides the character keyword, why is the Baleful judge range only 3", unlike Commissars 6" for the same cost. Thats just annoying. Should have an aura ability, like reroll 1s in the Fight phase within 6" to replace combat stims.

 

If were wishlisting;

 

Lots of ways the old Devotions could have been implemented, heres my ideas as upgrades to a Renegade commander (a select one function):

 

-Ordnance Tyrant: Friendly Renegades ARTILLERY and VEHICLE units within 3" use his BS3 when rolling shooting attacks (variation of Master of Ordnance from AM)

 

-Heretek Magus: At the end of your movement phase select one friendly Renegades unit with 6" and regain D3 lost wounds (just a play off an Enginseer except it can effect Infantry and Vehicles)

 

-Arch Heretic Revolutionary: Friendly units with the Renegades and Infantry keywords within 6" of this model add 1 to their attacks characteristics (just a play off Priests, synergize with my above Enforcer suggestion)

 

-Subterranean Tactician: During deployment you may select D3 friendly Renegade INFANTRY units to begin the game in underground tunnels. At the start any of your turns deploy any of them anywhere on the table at least 9" away from enemy models

 

-Bloody Handed Reaver: At the beginning of any of your turns select one friendly Renegade INFANTRY unit within 6" of this model, that unit may reroll all failed to hit rolls. (Nothing fancy, just an "order" of sorts, something resembling their former Imperial training)

 

-Master of the Horde: Once per game, At the start of any of your turns you may add a Renegade Militia unit to any existing friendly Renegade Militia unit on the battlefield, these now count as one unit for all purposes. (Again nothing crazy, the added models come from the Reserve pool so they are paid for. Adds a neat little tactical dimension.)

 

Choosing one of these upgrades should run about 25pts or Power Level 2.

 

Good, bad, ugly?

Edited June 28, 2017 by Akrim

[Khornestar]

I would add a lot of unit entries to the army list, from both the Imperial Index 2 and the FW AM list in the first half of the book. Most of them, actually. All the Baneblade variants, the Stormhammer, Vendettas, Vultures, Macharius and Malcador variants as some examples.

 

I agree with Mal's point on just making the ballistic skill equal. The "worse than guard" thing has just got to go, IMO.

 

*edit*

Oh, and Rapier batteries need to be units of 1-3 again. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Juggernut

[Harvest545]

I think the best way to implement devotions would be what R&H 30k spiritual successor did with provenances. Except unlike Imperial Militia and Cults, there shouldn't be any cost for the army wide rules and they should restricted to 1 devotion per army, otherwise you could end up with imbalanced rule interaction between different devotions. And with army wide rules factored into the base cost of every R&H unit they wouldn't seem as overpriced compared to Imperial Guard and other hordes. For instance Bloody handed reaver could give provide +1 Save to all INFANTRY in the army and optionally give units the option to upgrade lasguns and laspistols to AP -1 for 1 point per model or something.

 

Also Why have chaos forsaken basic weapons technology like melta bombs? I Honestly wouldn't be surprised if every hell-forge spontaneously forgot how to manufacture bolters for CSM by next edition. Regardless R&H should have access to most of the generic imperial guard vehicles, it would be nice to get some daemon engine stuff unique to the chaos mortals but access to normal guard vehicles probably won't even happen.

 

Stub guns should be S 4 if they are going to be 6" range and optional free weapons upgrades.

 

Vox Casters and Sigils have conflicting poorly written rules, they pretty much need to start from scratch with what each piece of wargear provides. I was thinking maybe Vox is "all models in a unit containing a vox caster can reroll morale test." or something, while the sigil could be "All models in a unit containing a chaos sigil recieve +1 LD and reroll 1s when advancing"

 

Apothecary/combat medics would be nice but i guess anything non-imperial is too evil to receive medical treatment or something, maybe chaos medics are actually like fabius and just heal themselves so they do exist but they are coincidentally just the last models you chose to remove from the unit, or they're all Alpha Legion and the models that get healed just pretend to die as part of a master scheme. 

 

Anyway just some half baked thoughts...

[Sception]

for devotions / covenants / whatever, I'd rather they were just aura abilities on the commander.  more in line with 8th, works better for r&h forces run alongside chaos marines - which is supposed to be part of their fluff, etc.  And honestly, I'd really rather they just had the mark keywords, same as chaos marines.  Right now a 'Nurgle' army cannot include any Renegades & Heretics, even if you make a commander your general for the 'Covenant of Nurgle' because that isn't the same thing as just having the 'Nurgle' keyword.  And even if it was, aligned militia units shouldn't come at the cost of your warlord choice, especially when the god's keywords are just that, keywords, and not special abilities or stat boosts.

 

so, yeah.  let r&h units be marked, including units borrowed from the guard (ie, replace 'ASTRA MILITARUM' with 'RENEGADES & HERETICS' and replace <COMPANY> or whatever the guard keyword is with <MARK OF CHAOS>), and then replace the commander's devotion / covenant abilities with five different auras (one for each god, plus one for no gods) that say 'if the commander has the NURGLE keyword then NURGLE RENEGADE & HERETICS units within x inches gain y ability; if this model has the KHORNE keyword then KHORNE RENEGADE & HERETICS units within x inches gain z ability; etc.

[Mister Feral]

I have a greater understanding of Renegades & Heretics from the original Vraks books (rather than the updated version) but this 8th Edition list just seem boring?

 

I agree with Malisteen, the Covenants could on been based on just the <MARK OF CHAOS> and not having it tied into the Renegade Commander having to be the Warlord - I'd rather just be able to chuck some Renegade Militia alongside Heretic Astartes and synergise them with <MARK OF CHAOS>.

 

Alternatively, could of easily had Servants of Slaughter / Decay as faction keywords, which could of added additional weapon and unit options. 

 

On a side note, would of also been nice to have the various Heretic Astartes warbands involved in the Vraks war represented with a few flavoursome rules / restrictions. The Purge, Apostles of Contagion, The Tainted, Skulltakers, The Faithless etc.

 

I understand (due to various real world factors) why we got the list we did, but I was considering making a few units recently - but now I'm fairly indifferent on the idea since the rules don't match what drew me to Renegades & Heretics in the first place!

Edited June 30, 2017 by Mister Feral

[Kinstryfe]

Does anyone feel like something got mixed up in the design? Cultists having better to hit numbers but worse weapons and militia having access to all weapons butwoese stats, and cultists costing more...it's just weird trying to reconcile it.

As far as the list, it almost feels like (and this applies to the AM list as well) it was built for only a couple types of armies. I hope that they're in the process of turning Chaos into an Imperium of its own. Right now I like the R&H army idea but the lists are way more open with the AM list, but I still have units that only go in one or the other. Missing priests of the gods, rough riders, our own special weapons teams, and everything else missing doesn't seem to have any upsides to give us our own edge :(