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Librarian worth?

space marine librarians tactics

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21 replies to this topic

#1
Custodian Athiair

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Okay I like Librarians, always have enjoyed psychic powers. My favourite model I own and painted is my Librarian converted from Cotez. However I just don't see the point in running him anymore.

 

Looking at stats Chaplain & Captain have him beat.

Looking at buffs to nearby units Chaplain & Captain have him beat (but that's expected).

 

But the kicker is the Space Marine psychic powers.

 

The Null Zone feels beyond limited unless you're fighting a T'zeentch army.

The "model buff" power is okay, but only when you've actually reached melee, which means 1 or 2 turns not using it

The Veil of Time while it has some uses, based on transports now anyway I can't justify it.

Smite is decent but it's just Smite

 

I'm sure for some armies he has his benefits. But I'm looking at my Salamanders build for example, where I'm building short-range fire fight systems (for fluff reasons more than competitive). And sitting there going is there anything he can give me over a Captain/Chapalin for one less power level that I would miss? I don't want to stick him with my Sternguard in a Razorback - a Captain is gonna buff the rapid fire shooting much more. And I don't want him sitting back on my gunline for the same reason.

 

Based on my limited knowledge the only useful deployment method I see is taking Terminator armour, dropping him next to some Assault Terminators, casting Veil of Time & Might of Heroes on the unit and getting them stuck in with a 9'' charge. Or sitting him next to a Dreadnought and throwing Might of Heroes at it for 5 Str 14 attacks at T 8.

 

I am still likely to play him when I'm wanting to have fun and put my favourite model on the field, but I do think that realistically I'd be better off with other options for cheaper.

 

Anyway I guess I'm wondering if this is a general consensus, whether I'm totally insane, or what. I'm not an expert by any stretch I largely play for fun.

 

Thanks in advance


Edited by Custodian Athiair, 29 June 2017 - 09:44 PM.

 

Probably heretical due to the Plague Zombie problem springing up in the 41st Millenium.
"What in Terra's name are you doing?"
"Um...gathering tactical data."
"With a spork?"

 

The Leonic Heresy (alternate history): http://www.bolterand...-leonic-heresy/

Salamanders {8th}: W:24{5} D:8{0} L:10{0}


#2
Claws and Effect

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If you can think of scenarios where he would benefit you, bring him along.

Also worth keeping in mind that available powers will likely be expanded when the actual Codex is released.

#3
Tyberos the Red Wake

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I wasn't planning on taking any in 8E, but now I kind of want to take TWO of them, just to protect myself from Smite.


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#4
Kallas

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Might of Ancients isn't just for the Fight phase (though it is undoubtedly most useful there) because it also adds to Toughness. Predator? Now it's T8. Toughness 9 Land Raiders? I'm going to be taking one quite often, I think, especially when they can Heroically Intervene with, say, a Force Stave for 3x 3+, S6, -1 Dd3 attacks, which is nothing to be sniffed at! And then they can still Smite stuff pretty well and their Psychic Hood helps when your opponent is trying to blast your stuff/buff theirs.


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#5
Helycon

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Invulnerable saves are actually quite prevalent. Just negating them is devastating, which makes Void Zone quite powerful. Harlequins will cry, since their normal saves suck. Genestealers will be vulnerable to bolter fire, and that special snowflake of a character will be blasted to bits by that meltagun no trouble at all.
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#6
Kua

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For this purpose one should consider it during army building and rely more on high-pen-weapons.

 

Salamanders were about meltas, weren’t they? ;)



#7
CCE1981

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Ironclad Dreadnought + Might of Heroes + Veil of time= Strength 7, hitting at Strength 14, Toughness 9, 5 attacks, re-rolling ones, re-eolling charge. I prefer Chainfist over Seismic hammer losing 1 damage to hit on an actual 3+ instead of a 4+.

#8
CCE1981

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Ironclad Dreadnought + Might of Heroes + Veil of time= Strength 7, hitting at Strength 14, Toughness 9, 5 attacks, re-rolling ones, re-eolling charge. I prefer Chainfist over Seismic hammer losing 1 damage to hit on an actual 3+ instead of a 4+.

#9
Kua

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(I don’t get why the seismic hammer is even more expensive than the better chainfist, either.)



#10
CCE1981

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I go through the Psychic Powers here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336274-who-has-the-best-librarian/

 

Have you thought about taking your Librarian as a Dark Angels Librarian and cast Aversion? 

This would reduce shooting at you.


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#11
Custodian Athiair

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I go through the Psychic Powers here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336274-who-has-the-best-librarian/

 

Have you thought about taking your Librarian as a Dark Angels Librarian and cast Aversion? 

This would reduce shooting at you.

 

It feels a bit off when I'm running a Salamanders army, I would argue a fair amount "fluff-wise" that the Wolves' powers could be reproduced in a Nocturne style way.


 

Probably heretical due to the Plague Zombie problem springing up in the 41st Millenium.
"What in Terra's name are you doing?"
"Um...gathering tactical data."
"With a spork?"

 

The Leonic Heresy (alternate history): http://www.bolterand...-leonic-heresy/

Salamanders {8th}: W:24{5} D:8{0} L:10{0}


#12
autek mor

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that smite is just too good, more than worth the perils risk.



#13
Silas7

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Note that Might of heroes only targets one model, and not the unit.


gallery_48988_15465_10130.png gallery_45765_11565_21922.png


#14
Custodian Athiair

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Note that Might of heroes only targets one model, and not the unit.

 

Hence I only see limited worth, or running a Librarian/Dreadnought combo.


 

Probably heretical due to the Plague Zombie problem springing up in the 41st Millenium.
"What in Terra's name are you doing?"
"Um...gathering tactical data."
"With a spork?"

 

The Leonic Heresy (alternate history): http://www.bolterand...-leonic-heresy/

Salamanders {8th}: W:24{5} D:8{0} L:10{0}


#15
Zeratil

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  Null zone is an amazing power I think, there's loads of units that rely on invulnerable saves to keep them alive, and stripping the inv save is about the only chance you have of downing a CC monster like Guilliman in a points efficient manner given his Character status. If you take a terminator librarian with Null Zone and Veil of Time you have a reasonable chance of deep striking in, casting veil for a charge re-roll and Null Zone and charging into something that relies on a ++ save in CC and smashing it's face in. Definitely something to save a command point or two for though.

 

  Might of Heroes seems less useful to me overall, although casting it on a beatstick chapter master or a dreadnought is definitely the best use. Dreads benefit a lot from the extra toughness and more than a few HQs get a a good benefit out of that extra point of strength.

 

  Given the WHC mention of psychic powers in the codexes it wouldn't surprise me if we end up with 3 new powers for 6 total. Or even a partial resurrection of the 7th edition extra disciplines. The AoS books tended to do this and more than one brought out multiple magic disciplines for the army.


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- Ahriman of Tizca, Chief Librarian of the XVth Legion


#16
Tyberos the Red Wake

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Note that Might of heroes only targets one model, and not the unit.

 

Hence I only see limited worth, or running a Librarian/Dreadnought combo.

 

 

I would take Librarians even if they knew zero powers other than Smite and Deny the Witch.


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"Grey-clad, they came from the outer night to aid the Imperium, and their jagged maw did swallow the stars, and their black gaze did mirror the void of oblivion."

- The Canticle of Cassandria Lev - Vol.CVI [Circa M37]


#17
Custodian Athiair

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Null zone is an amazing power I think, there's loads of units that rely on invulnerable saves to keep them alive, and stripping the inv save is about the only chance you have of downing a CC monster like Guilliman in a points efficient manner given his Character status. If you take a terminator librarian with Null Zone and Veil of Time you have a reasonable chance of deep striking in, casting veil for a charge re-roll and Null Zone and charging into something that relies on a ++ save in CC and smashing it's face in. Definitely something to save a command point or two for though.

 

  Might of Heroes seems less useful to me overall, although casting it on a beatstick chapter master or a dreadnought is definitely the best use. Dreads benefit a lot from the extra toughness and more than a few HQs get a a good benefit out of that extra point of strength.

 

  Given the WHC mention of psychic powers in the codexes it wouldn't surprise me if we end up with 3 new powers for 6 total. Or even a partial resurrection of the 7th edition extra disciplines. The AoS books tended to do this and more than one brought out multiple magic disciplines for the army.

 

To be fair in the two games I've played, only thing with an Invun Save was the Emperor's Champion, and he kinda got turned into cheese by snipers 

 

Wondering what these units are that rely on a ++ save are? What armies should I look out for?


 

Probably heretical due to the Plague Zombie problem springing up in the 41st Millenium.
"What in Terra's name are you doing?"
"Um...gathering tactical data."
"With a spork?"

 

The Leonic Heresy (alternate history): http://www.bolterand...-leonic-heresy/

Salamanders {8th}: W:24{5} D:8{0} L:10{0}


#18
Iron Father Ferrum

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Daemons and Genestealers come to mind.


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#19
Valdr Fell-fist

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#20
Zeratil

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Lots of HQs have very respectable inv saves now, a bunch of Nids have them. Plenty of FW dreadnoughts if you see any of them. Dark Eldar vehicles and assault infantry get them. Honestly there's a lot of stuff scattered around.


"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance."

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"Prospero may burn, but the light of knowledge shall never die."
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#21
olcottr

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I would assume Might of Heroes works on the Librarian himself.



#22
Helycon

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I would assume Might of Heroes works on the Librarian himself.

Yes, but considering he's not great in close combat, it would be if you have nothing else to cast or use Might of Heroes on.





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