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Codex Space Marines


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#1051
Bryan Blaire

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I'm definitely still building all my standard Marine stuff, Primaris for me will be few and far between from what I've seen due to design and rule choices GW has made, and those I do have are not going to be any of my primary Chapters. DA currently have a good expansive line for kits (although the Company Vets mold has certainly seen better days), so I've been kit bashing my fool head off lately.

I'm glad that GW thought enough to at least allow "old entries" from the Index to still exist alongside the Codex, but I would have rather had them actually in the Codex instead.
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#1052
Winds Of Fury

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I really like the turn rules wise that 8th edition has taken the game, but I must say that right now, based on the small bits and pieces I heard of leaked datasheets from the Codex, I am so discouraged right now. Even to the point of quitting all my projects, put it away in a box or sell it all on eBay.

 

What I'm enjoying the most about this hobby is the creative part of it. I like to model and have my unique miniatures. Sometimes not going for what may be best in game, but still viable options on the battlefield.

 

I have this beautiful Honour Guard unit. A Banner, a Champion with a two handed Thunder Hammer and two Honour Guards with Relic Blades. 3 of 4 models is no longer supported by the rules. Only Power Sword champions and Power Axe Honour Guard is allowed. Just as they come in the Calgar box.

 

I have two Dreadnoughts. Magnetized with different options. Barely a year ago I bought two pairs of Autocannons from forgeworld. Now invalid. Thank's the Emperor that they have that Black Reach dreadnought in the toy store boxes called Battle for Vedros, or else I bet my FW Dreadnought Mulit-Melta would be scraped too...

 

And last, my Master of the Forge. A Techmarine with a Conversion Beamer, bought from Forge World. Love that model, thats why I bought it. Spend £20 getting the base model. Another unknown amount of money on other parts I put on him. No longer supported in the rules on the simple basis that GW don't have a miniature for it. (Never mind the fact that the baseline Techmarine with only a Servo Arm also don't have a model)

 

It feels like that GW really aims to kill of the creativity. Snap Fits, easy to builds and mono-poses seems the new thing; and it's all the sudden reflected in the rules, which bothers me a lot.

 

 

As I started. I am really discouraged... and sad...


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#1053
Tyberos the Red Wake

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I'm glad that GW thought enough to at least allow "old entries" from the Index to still exist alongside the Codex, but I would have rather had them actually in the Codex instead.

 

Given GW's current direction, I think this would only have been possible if they had made actual kits for these units. What this tells me is that GW has zero plans of making kits for them/bringing back the OOP kits. They did say in the beginning that certain units would be supported in the Index although they were OOP or never had an actual model.

 

Maybe in future codex updates they will change their mind and release a model for them and put the datasheet in the codex too. Who knows.


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#1054
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It feels like that GW really aims to kill of the creativity. Snap Fits, easy to builds and mono-poses seems the new thing; and it's all the sudden reflected in the rules, which bothers me a lot.

 

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#1055
DeadFingers

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It feels like that GW really aims to kill of the creativity. Snap Fits, easy to builds and mono-poses seems the new thing; and it's all the sudden reflected in the rules, which bothers me a lot.

 

I know right? How dare they release starter sets of different prices for absolute beginners that don't want to spend a hefty amount of money all at once in a hobby they're not sure they'll get into?

 

How terrible of them.


Edited by DeadFingers, Yesterday, 11:48 PM.

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#1056
Acebaur

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It feels like that GW really aims to kill of the creativity. Snap Fits, easy to builds and mono-poses seems the new thing; and it's all the sudden reflected in the rules, which bothers me a lot.

 

I know right? How dare they release starter sets of different prices for absolute beginners that don't want to spend a hefty amount of money all at once in a hobby they're not sure they'll get into?

 

How terrible of them.

 

 

There's no need to be snarky. He has a point. GW has released several easy fit boxes outside of starters now which they never used to do. Furthermore they've adopted a policy of "if it's modeled a certain way, these are his only options" I'm all for getting more folks into the hobby and having cheap good sculpts, even if they are push fit. But I'm not about removal of customization and opportunities to kitbash 


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#1057
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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Anybody know if Preds or Vindis have the Vehicle Squadron rule in the Codex? Didn't in the Index.

#1058
Zamtro

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It feels like that GW really aims to kill of the creativity. Snap Fits, easy to builds and mono-poses seems the new thing; and it's all the sudden reflected in the rules, which bothers me a lot.

 

I know right? How dare they release starter sets of different prices for absolute beginners that don't want to spend a hefty amount of money all at once in a hobby they're not sure they'll get into?

 

How terrible of them.

 

 

There's no need to be snarky. He has a point. GW has released several easy fit boxes outside of starters now which they never used to do. Furthermore they've adopted a policy of "if it's modeled a certain way, these are his only options" I'm all for getting more folks into the hobby and having cheap good sculpts, even if they are push fit. But I'm not about removal of customization and opportunities to kitbash 

 

I feel his comment is justified... There was a blanket statement about GW killing of creativity etc - And we've already seen that the new models will have different loadout options and multipart kits etc from the codex leaks... They're doing what should be done, get the new edition of the ground and getting new players into the game.


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#1059
Acebaur

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His point may have been justified but that doesn't give him or anyone the right be be snarky about it. Be constructive in your criticism, not needlessly sarcastic and passive aggressive.  

 

Anyway, I disagree. Look at the character options for the new models. All with one pose, and basically no options for gear. Further, while not a rules thing, the Primaris are all basically identical. No variation in their armor at all. I realize they all wear full suits of MkX but surely they would still have icons, different shoulder pads, etc. 


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"There can be no meeting of minds and no understanding with such beings as exist in the dark places of the galaxy.There is simply a choice: defeat them, or be defeated by them. And Defeat them we will"
- Chaplain Emmerich


 

++++ The Jericho Crusade ++++

LRW648G.jpgMu0LNbJ.jpgsZ7h6UF.pngeuJimEX.pngslZakJf.jpgP4U1aFX.jpg

 

"Let our feet, steel clad, pressed into the soils of this alien land, remark on our passing. What need have we of plaudit and praise? No matter the laurel of victory, no matter the glories others may seek. We are the Black Templars. Victory is it's own reward."[/center]
- High Marshal Helbrecht


#1060
RedFox

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I really like the turn rules wise that 8th edition has taken the game, but I must say that right now, based on the small bits and pieces I heard of leaked datasheets from the Codex, I am so discouraged right now. Even to the point of quitting all my projects, put it away in a box or sell it all on eBay.

What I'm enjoying the most about this hobby is the creative part of it. I like to model and have my unique miniatures. Sometimes not going for what may be best in game, but still viable options on the battlefield.

I have this beautiful Honour Guard unit. A Banner, a Champion with a two handed Thunder Hammer and two Honour Guards with Relic Blades. 3 of 4 models is no longer supported by the rules. Only Power Sword champions and Power Axe Honour Guard is allowed. Just as they come in the Calgar box.

I have two Dreadnoughts. Magnetized with different options. Barely a year ago I bought two pairs of Autocannons from forgeworld. Now invalid. Thank's the Emperor that they have that Black Reach dreadnought in the toy store boxes called Battle for Vedros, or else I bet my FW Dreadnought Mulit-Melta would be scraped too...

And last, my Master of the Forge. A Techmarine with a Conversion Beamer, bought from Forge World. Love that model, thats why I bought it. Spend £20 getting the base model. Another unknown amount of money on other parts I put on him. No longer supported in the rules on the simple basis that GW don't have a miniature for it. (Never mind the fact that the baseline Techmarine with only a Servo Arm also don't have a model

What are you talking about? Honor guards can still take relic blades and techmarine can still take a beamer...

Edit: just found the video on dakka....what a joke, I guess we could still use the index entries but whatever. Shame on you if you support GW by buying this codex. I wish HH would translate to 8th edition rules so I could just focus on that.

Edited by RedFox, Today, 03:05 AM.


#1061
Toxichobbit

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 Ok everyone, chill out a bit with the knee jerking and boycott propositions. GW have said that stuff that isn't in the Codex but is in the Index is still legal. See below.

 



I really like the turn rules wise that 8th edition has taken the game, but I must say that right now, based on the small bits and pieces I heard of leaked datasheets from the Codex, I am so discouraged right now. Even to the point of quitting all my projects, put it away in a box or sell it all on eBay.

 

What I'm enjoying the most about this hobby is the creative part of it. I like to model and have my unique miniatures. Sometimes not going for what may be best in game, but still viable options on the battlefield.

 

I have this beautiful Honour Guard unit. A Banner, a Champion with a two handed Thunder Hammer and two Honour Guards with Relic Blades. 3 of 4 models is no longer supported by the rules. Only Power Sword champions and Power Axe Honour Guard is allowed. Just as they come in the Calgar box.

 

I have two Dreadnoughts. Magnetized with different options. Barely a year ago I bought two pairs of Autocannons from forgeworld. Now invalid. Thank's the Emperor that they have that Black Reach dreadnought in the toy store boxes called Battle for Vedros, or else I bet my FW Dreadnought Mulit-Melta would be scraped too...

 

And last, my Master of the Forge. A Techmarine with a Conversion Beamer, bought from Forge World. Love that model, thats why I bought it. Spend £20 getting the base model. Another unknown amount of money on other parts I put on him. No longer supported in the rules on the simple basis that GW don't have a miniature for it. (Never mind the fact that the baseline Techmarine with only a Servo Arm also don't have a model)

 

It feels like that GW really aims to kill of the creativity. Snap Fits, easy to builds and mono-poses seems the new thing; and it's all the sudden reflected in the rules, which bothers me a lot.

 

 

As I started. I am really discouraged... and sad...

 

"While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.



Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army."
 
Source here
 
The way I read that, you can still use your beautiful Honour Guard unit and your quad autocannon Dreadnoughts alongside the new Codex, you just need to use the Index datasheets for them. Same deal for stuff like the Imperial Space Marine, Tyrannic War Veterans and various other stuff that isn't in the Codex. Furthermore, I'd expect to see FW maintain support for the various Mortis Dreadnaughts, including the quad autocannon variant.
 
Granted it's a mess, armies are going to have two different Datasheets for some units (assuming other Codexes follow suit). I don't really mind stuff like the Terminus Ultra or Imperial Space Marine being relegated to the Index as they're not available anymore, but combi-grav Sergeants? (apparently not an option in the Codex according to video reviews*) That makes no sense as the combi-grav is in the Tactical, Devastator and Sternguard kits and if it's true that they aren't in the Codex, you can just use the Index entry instead which adds unnecesary complication to the game.

 

* I'm fairly certain that this is a mistake and that it's certain Sergeants, for example Assault Sergeants, who cannot take combi-gravs. It just makes zero sense otherwise as the combi-grav is in multiple kits specifically for the Sergeant to use it. Could also be a copy paste error that will be erratad in the future.


Edited by Toxichobbit, Today, 03:39 AM.


#1062
Arkangilos

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I really like the turn rules wise that 8th edition has taken the game, but I must say that right now, based on the small bits and pieces I heard of leaked datasheets from the Codex, I am so discouraged right now. Even to the point of quitting all my projects, put it away in a box or sell it all on eBay.

What I'm enjoying the most about this hobby is the creative part of it. I like to model and have my unique miniatures. Sometimes not going for what may be best in game, but still viable options on the battlefield.

I have this beautiful Honour Guard unit. A Banner, a Champion with a two handed Thunder Hammer and two Honour Guards with Relic Blades. 3 of 4 models is no longer supported by the rules. Only Power Sword champions and Power Axe Honour Guard is allowed. Just as they come in the Calgar box.

I have two Dreadnoughts. Magnetized with different options. Barely a year ago I bought two pairs of Autocannons from forgeworld. Now invalid. Thank's the Emperor that they have that Black Reach dreadnought in the toy store boxes called Battle for Vedros, or else I bet my FW Dreadnought Mulit-Melta would be scraped too...

And last, my Master of the Forge. A Techmarine with a Conversion Beamer, bought from Forge World. Love that model, thats why I bought it. Spend £20 getting the base model. Another unknown amount of money on other parts I put on him. No longer supported in the rules on the simple basis that GW don't have a miniature for it. (Never mind the fact that the baseline Techmarine with only a Servo Arm also don't have a model

What are you talking about? Honor guards can still take relic blades and techmarine can still take a beamer...

Edit: just found the video on dakka....what a joke, I guess we could still use the index entries but whatever. Shame on you if you support GW by buying this codex. I wish HH would translate to 8th edition rules so I could just focus on that.

 

Shame on you for telling us what to support/not support. I almost want to buy a codex just to spite you.


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#1063
Firepower

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All this shaming is such a shame.  


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#1064
RedFox

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*point finger* he started it!!

But yeah I am gone, I can hear the hammer falling

#1065
Toxichobbit

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*point finger* he started it!!

But yeah I am gone, I can hear the hammer falling

 

Just take a break, play some HH or something else. it ain't worth getting upset or getting into arguments about what GW do, because even when they're at their best they always do something stupid that annoys people. At the end of the day it's still your models to do with as you like and at least the Indexes give us some leeway for conversions and creativity (for now at least).


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#1066
Crimson Ghost IX

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I really like the turn rules wise that 8th edition has taken the game, but I must say that right now, based on the small bits and pieces I heard of leaked datasheets from the Codex, I am so discouraged right now. Even to the point of quitting all my projects, put it away in a box or sell it all on eBay.

 

What I'm enjoying the most about this hobby is the creative part of it. I like to model and have my unique miniatures. Sometimes not going for what may be best in game, but still viable options on the battlefield.

 

I have this beautiful Honour Guard unit. A Banner, a Champion with a two handed Thunder Hammer and two Honour Guards with Relic Blades. 3 of 4 models is no longer supported by the rules. Only Power Sword champions and Power Axe Honour Guard is allowed. Just as they come in the Calgar box.

 

I have two Dreadnoughts. Magnetized with different options. Barely a year ago I bought two pairs of Autocannons from forgeworld. Now invalid. Thank's the Emperor that they have that Black Reach dreadnought in the toy store boxes called Battle for Vedros, or else I bet my FW Dreadnought Mulit-Melta would be scraped too...

 

And last, my Master of the Forge. A Techmarine with a Conversion Beamer, bought from Forge World. Love that model, thats why I bought it. Spend £20 getting the base model. Another unknown amount of money on other parts I put on him. No longer supported in the rules on the simple basis that GW don't have a miniature for it. (Never mind the fact that the baseline Techmarine with only a Servo Arm also don't have a model)

 

It feels like that GW really aims to kill of the creativity. Snap Fits, easy to builds and mono-poses seems the new thing; and it's all the sudden reflected in the rules, which bothers me a lot.

 

 

As I started. I am really discouraged... and sad...

 

 

I feel your pain. Never lose hope brother. There is always a way forward.

 

I have collected and played this game thru some very difficult times for my forces.

Find new things to get excited about with your game and don't suffer too many slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

 

Always enjoy this hobby on your terms.

Adapt and Overcome is always an option.



#1067
Perry

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What gets me is that this is coming as a surprise to some people. Hello, GW have done this to other model ranges for years.

GW also went through the bother of keeping all old model combinations viable thanks to the index.

Can we just rename the Imperium 1 index to something like the Veterans book for veteran gamers and let it rest.

Edited by Perry, Today, 04:35 AM.


#1068
Plaguecaster

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I don't really see the big deal it was bound to happen eventually I mean just look at certain chaos options like warpsmith or dark apostle which can't have any upgrades at all at least you could give chaplains and techmarines bike in later editions, GW started limiting options ages ago just because they finally got around doing the same to your faction is hardly the end of the world . The end of the day if you are playing Casul games would it really be that hard to talk to your opponent before hand saying your hq has illegal options so is it still fine to use etc I'm sure most people are in the same situation and wouldn't care if your hq has a weapon which it's modelled with but it can't use in this edition

Hey at least the index book isn't so worthless after all now the actual codex is here which heaps of people have been moaning about

Edited by Plaguecaster, Today, 04:55 AM.

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#1069
Kisada

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I don't understand ... GW said in their FAQ that the indexes are still valid because they contain entries that are not in the Codex so if you still want to use those entries you would need the index.

 

So I don't get where people are thinking that mortis dreads or biker characters are gone from.  

 

Or am I missing something?



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#1070
Reinhard

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I don't understand ... GW said in their FAQ that the indexes are still valid because they contain entries that are not in the Codex so if you still want to use those entries you would need the index.

 

So I don't get where people are thinking that mortis dreads or biker characters are gone from.  

 

Or am I missing something?

 

The whole moving them from the codex to the index, while saying the codex is for the "current edition" does suggest that they'll be gone eventually in the long term. I wouldn't bet on it happening until maybe 10th edition or later though. 9th edition codex will probably not have them either but either have new indicies or perhaps more likely, still allow the use of the 8th ed indicies for 'legacy units'. That said your usage of them is guaranteed right now.

 

Do we have complete list of units missing in the codex but present in index? Is it just certain dreads and biked characters?


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#1071
Crimson Ghost IX

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In other news, I hear power fists are around 2/3 the previous points each now.

I am happy to hear that.

 

I am unhappy I decided to go so heavy with the glue on the thunderhammers recently perhaps tho =)

 

I hear sternguard, drop pods, land speeders etc got cheaper also.

 

Excited to see this actual book.

 

It will be interesting to see if BA, SW, DA etc get a PDF or something with updated points to use when this codex drops or if we are gonna just wait for our books next...(year?).



#1072
D3L

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I think as a community we can start a github project and just make rules and codicies ourselves, with a decentralised approval system and an authoritative mod merging in branches.

It will be infinitely better than this hot sticky mess of Codex Space Marines (but only the space marines we sell) and 8th in general

Then GW can give up the ghost even pretending they make rules


Edited by D3L, Today, 05:33 AM.

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#1073
Plaguecaster

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I think as a community we can start a github project and just make rules and codicies ourselves, with a decentralised approval system and an authoritative mod merging in branches.

It will be infinitely better than this hot sticky mess of Codex Space Marines (but only the space marines we sell) and 8th in general

Then GW can give up the ghost even pretending they make rules

I'm a bit confused how is it hot mess???

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#1074
Ishagu

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New Codex is looking pretty great to me.
They are removing a few niche options and for all we know it's for game balancing.

The lack of options on the Primaris Captain is the only thing that I find a bit weird, personally - especially as a Captain with Fist and Plasma Pistol already exists.

Thematically a Librarian on a bike never worked for me, for example.

-~Ishagu~-


#1075
sfPanzer

sfPanzer

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I'm definitely still building all my standard Marine stuff, Primaris for me will be few and far between from what I've seen due to design and rule choices GW has made, and those I do have are not going to be any of my primary Chapters. DA currently have a good expansive line for kits (although the Company Vets mold has certainly seen better days), so I've been kit bashing my fool head off lately.

I'm glad that GW thought enough to at least allow "old entries" from the Index to still exist alongside the Codex, but I would have rather had them actually in the Codex instead.

Yeah I think that's the right way to go for now.

I mean it's very likely by now that Primaris WILL succeed Space Marines in fluff and models over the years but I'm sure it will take quite a while and the change will be fluid so no need to trash all our old Space Marines just yet.


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