Project Hive Fleet Cerberus

BrassClaw · July 6, 2017

Hey Bug Fans! So with 8th edition here, its time to dust off the bugs and see how they do. When I started playing nids, it was back when Godzilla was in its hay day. I want to see if can be done this time around. This is part wish list part goal for 8th edition.

HIVE FLEET CERBERUS FULL BATTALION

HQ

Hive Tyrant with Wings, 2 pairs of Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal glands, prehensile tail PTS: 221

Old One Eye PTS:140

ELITES

3 Venomthropes PTS:93

5 Zoanthropes with 1 Neurothrope PTS:240

3 Hive Guard with Impaler Cannon PTS:144

TROOPS

5 Tyranid Warriors with scything talons and deathspitter, 1 Tyranid Warrior with scything talons and barbed stranger PTS:175

20 Genestealers with rending claws PTS:240

FAST ATTACK

Harpy with 2 Strangletron Cannons PTS 178

HEAVY SUPPORT

3 Carnifexes with scything talons, 2 deathspitter, Bio plasma PTS:300

Trygon Prime with Bio-electric pulse with containment spines, Biostatic rattle an 3 pairs of Scything Talons PTS:214

ARMY TOTAL:4061

I might throw in a barbed hierodule for a good center piece. I have a Tyrannofex with Rupture cannon laying about but he might be bench warming unless something improves. I would say that I have a good 50% of it already. Will be posting pics and fluff as they come.

Happy Hunting!

Edited July 6, 2017 by BrassClaw

Closet Skeleton · July 8, 2017

I don't know anyone that plays 4061 point games so couldn't comment on the list viability.

I don't think 3 units of Venomthropes are necessary. 1 has done fine for me so far and 2 would be more than enough.

You know 6 strong warriors can take 2 barbed strangers? They're worth it.

20 warriors and no prime is a... serious mistake.

Rending claws are worth it on warriors.

Adrenal glands are worth it on units that are going to 'deep strike'.

Paired clone Tyrants make my skin crawl but I'm sure they'll do okay despite how characterless they feel to some random individual like myself. I think a losing 1 scything talon attack for a gun is worth it.

Impaler cannons don't look as good as the haywire option on paper. -2 save mod on an anti-tank gun is a joke this edition.

BrassClaw · July 9, 2017

Hey Closet Skeleton, thanks for the reply. Most people don't play competitively at 4,000 points, but I do use these units in smaller games so all suggestions are welcomed :biggrin.:

So why so many Venomthropes? So on the battlefield I set these guys like this:

C C

W

V

The Carnifexes [C] are escorted by a unit of Warriors [W] which are then backed by Venomthropes [V] to give the warriors some more survival. With the Venomthropes cloud being so small, that's why I'm running 3 units of them.

A lot of these units are legacy builds (builds from older edition). Like the warriors, back in the day I had them with Scything talons and Rending claws, but an edition change make it illegal and a great arm ripping had to be happen. Now currently I have 18/24 of warriors and ripping off 36 scything talons doesn't seem that appealing to me, but adding the 2nd stranger didn't occurred to me so thanks for that tip.

Yeah I would like to cram a Tyranid Prime in there, and if i was doing a full brigade i would. If I would really want to be cheeky I would take a supreme command detachment with all Primes.

Would it make you feel better that I'm using two different hive tyrants models? One is the current plastic tyrant, the other one is a the pewter boy. I thought about the deathspitters/Monstrous Scything talons on the tyrants. I still might do it.

I don't have any experience with Hive Guard, I think what sold me on the Impaler cannons was the range.

Thanks for your input

Edited July 9, 2017 by BrassClaw

Closet Skeleton · July 9, 2017

3" is small, but its not that small. I found that a single unit of Venomthropes was enough a lot of the time, though two would have been worthwhile. The bases are about 2" and coherency is 2" so;

E V V V E

3-2-2-2-2-2-3

(E is edge of the cloud, V is a venomthrope)

The coverage for 3 Venomthropes in a line is 16" by 8". You'll lose that quickly when the middle one dies and you're forced to move back into coherency but its the first turn when Venomthropes really matter.

Even ignoring that, you can cover 2 units of warriors for each Venomthrope unit easily. Covering 100 gaunts with just 2 units is easy enough.

You've already got a brigade since its just 6 troops and 3 of everything else. That gives you 3-5 HQ slots.

Old One Eye is inferior as a leader than a Tyranid Prime because the Prime covers units while Old One Eye is covering single models who have much smaller footprints which limits their ability to stay in range and have a decent threat range themselves. When I took Old One Eye and 3 Carnifexes I found that it was always going to be tactically necessary to break formation with at least one of them so I doubt keeping 6 carnifexes in range is going to work past the first turn.

1 Prime per 2 warrior units is enough if the warrior units are in the 5-9 model range.

BrassClaw · July 16, 2017

OK Bug fans. I have taken some suggestions and made some changes to the master list. Here we go!

HQ

Hive Tyrant with Monstrous Scything Talons, 2 Deathspitters and Prehensile tail PTS 202

Old One Eye PTS:140

Tyranid Prime with Rending Claws, Deathspitter, Adrenal glands PTS 111

ELITES

3 Venomthropes PTS 93

5 Zoanthropes and 1 Neurothrope PTS 240

3 Hive Guard with Shock Cannon PTS 114

TROOPS

4 Warriors with Scything Talons and Deathspitter, 2 with Scything Talons and Barbed Strangler PTS 182

20 Genestealers with rending claws PTS 240

FAST ATTACK

Harpy with 2 Stranglethron Cannons, scything wings, stinger salvoes PTS 178

HEAVY SUPPORT

3 Carnifexes with Monsterous Scything Talons, 2 Deathspitters, Thresher scythe, Bio-plasma PTS 321

1 Trygon Prime with Bio-electric pulse with containment spines, Biostatic rattle, 3 pairs of Scything Talons PTS 214

LORD OF WAR

Barbed Hierodule with 2 Bio-cannons and Massive Scything talons PTS 440

ARMY TOTAL: 5000 POWER: 266

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I will be using this list to make smaller aka more useful lists from this. Pics will be coming soon

Xenith · July 17, 2017

What is the list for? Competition?

In general, go double scytals, or a bio cannon + claws or swords.

The reroll on 1's is inferior to both the extra attack from swords, and the reroll to wound on monstrous rending claws.

BrassClaw · July 17, 2017

What is the list for? Competition?

In general, go double scytals, or a bio cannon + claws or swords.

The reroll on 1's is inferior to both the extra attack from swords, and the reroll to wound on monstrous rending claws.

this isn't a competitive list, at least its not a hyper competitive. This is also more of a predictive list. My gut feeling says that some of the monstrous bio-morphs will become more restrictive in the upcoming codex (Monstrous Bone swords especially). I could be wrong, and I'm fine if I am.

Xenith · July 18, 2017

In that case I would try to introduce a bit more variety, if you're trying to predict the future. With spam/redundancy lists, a small codex change often sees the whole thing invalidated.

With that many stealers, I'd make sure you have a brood lord.

Don't forget adrenal glands on the tyrants and carnifex.

BrassClaw · July 18, 2017

In that case I would try to introduce a bit more variety, if you're trying to predict the future. With spam/redundancy lists, a small codex change often sees the whole thing invalidated.

With that many stealers, I'd make sure you have a brood lord.

Don't forget adrenal glands on the tyrants and carnifex.

So the reason why I don't use Brood lords is because I'm using the Trygons as my genestealer delivery device to get them close and personal with the enemy. Broodlords wouldn't be able to join in. I usually add adrenal glands if I needing to fill in points.

Anywho here are two 1K lists I'm planing on trying out.

LIST A

Old One Eye PTS 140

Tyranid Prime with Rending Claws and Deathspitter PTS 110

4 Tyranid Warriors with Scything Talons, Deathspitters and Adrenal Glands 1 Tyranid Warriors with Scything Talons, Barbed Strangler and Adrenal Glands PTS 152

3 Carnifexes with Scything Talons, 2 Deathspitters and Thresher Scythe PTS 294

LIST B

Old One Eye PTS 140

Tyranid Prime with Rending Claws and Deathspitter PTS 110

4 Tyranid Warriors with Scything Talons, Deathspitters and Adrenal Glands 1 Tyranid Warriors with Scything Talons, Barbed Strangler and Adrenal Glands PTS 152

10 Genestealers with rending claws PTS 120

2 Carnifexes with Scything Talons, 2 Deathspitters ,Thresher Scythe and Adrenal Glands PTS 206

I have started construction on the Tyranid Primes. Basically I raided my spare parts bin to build these guys. I'm missing the deathspitter for the 2nd Prime, will have to go to ebay to acquire those bits.

Closet Skeleton · July 19, 2017

If you're planning ahead, magnetise.

What is the list for? Competition?

In general, go double scytals, or a bio cannon + claws or swords.

The reroll on 1's is inferior to both the extra attack from swords, and the reroll to wound on monstrous rending claws.

Don't see how you worked that out. Rerolling 1s at -3 AP is way better than +1 attack at -2 AP.

Monstrous boneswords are trash, monstrous rending claws are purely the budget option despite how they would arguably be superior to monstrous boneswords against many targets even if they cost similar amounts of points.

Xenith · July 19, 2017

Oops, thought the MBSwords were AP-3 also.

Rerolling all failed to wound on the claws is better than the rerolling 1's to hit on the talons, purely as the tyrant hits on 2's and wounds most targets on 3's or worse.

House Taranis · July 19, 2017

I agree with you using trygons to get the 'stealers into battle, have you considered mawlocs as there is little more satisfying than seeing the look on your opponents face when his warlord and bodyguard suddenly get nommed from below. Also could soften up units for assault by the 'fexs or the flyrants.

BrassClaw · November 13, 2017

Hello fellow Hive Tyrants,

I'm here to give an update to Project Hive Fleet Cerberus. I have been plugging away at the army and with a new codex means new changes for the swarm. This time I'm going to take a different approach to building my army. Usually I would either set a point goal (2000pts, 3000pts, 4000pts ect.) or set a force organization chart goal (used a full Battalion for example). This time I'm going to build three lists and grow them. One list with be shooty, one will be assaulty and one will be hybrid. Starting at 1000, 1500, and until I finish each list at 2500. Now there will be over lap in the use of units, I'm not made of money but there should be a clear theme for each of them. I'm open to suggestions and recommendations but remember this isn't hyper competitive

1000 PTS

LIST A

Battalion Detachment

Hive Fleet: Jormungandr
+ HQ +
Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 110pts]: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws, The Maw-claws of Thyrax, Warlord Trait: Insidious Threat

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 110pts]: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

+ Troops +
Genestealers [8 PL, 160pts]
. 10x Genestealer: 10x Rending Claws, 10x Toxin Sacs

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 160pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 160pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

+ Elites +
Venomthropes [5 PL, 90pts]
. 3x Venomthrope: 3x Toxic Lashes

+ Heavy Support +
Carnifexes [12 PL, 210pts]
. Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms
. Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms

POINTS 1000

LIST B

Battalion Detachment

Hive Fleet: Kronos
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 198pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord Trait: Heightened Sensess, Wings

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 110pts]: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

+ Troops +
Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 160pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 160pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 160pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

+ Heavy Support +
Carnifexes [12 PL, 210pts]
. Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms
. Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms

POINTS:998

LIST C

Battalion Detachment

Hive Fleet: Behemoth
+ HQ +
Old One Eye [10 PL, 200pts]: Monstrous Crushing Claws, Monstrous Scything Talons, Thresher Scythe, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 108pts]: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws, The Maw-claws of Thyrax

+ Troops +
Genestealers [8 PL, 120pts]
. 10x Genestealer: 10x Rending Claws

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 166pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 166pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

+ Heavy Support +
Screamer-Killers [12 PL, 240pts]
. Screamer-Killer: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Bio-plasmic Scream, Spore Cysts
. Screamer-Killer: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Bio-plasmic Scream, Spore Cysts

POINTS 1000

More to come! let me know what you think

BrassClaw · November 20, 2017

This is the current state of Hive Fleet Cerberus

2 Hive Tyrants

2 Tyranids Primes

1 Old One Eye

20 Genestealers (8 more on the way)

18 Tyranids Warriors (3 more on the way)

4 Zoanthropes

2 Venomthropes

4 Carnifexes

1 Tyrannofex

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Redtoof · November 20, 2017

Your lists look good from my very limited experience with the new book. They do look like they are focused on killing infantry though, I'm not sure if you might be better off squeezing in some venom cannons and/or swapping carnifexes for the Tyrannofex?

BrassClaw · November 20, 2017

Your lists look good from my very limited experience with the new book. They do look like they are focused on killing infantry though, I'm not sure if you might be better off squeezing in some venom cannons and/or swapping carnifexes for the Tyrannofex?

Yeah, the plan is to overwhelm the enemy with deathspitter and devourer shots. I have been debating to myself about venomthropes and there usefulness in the Jormungandr list, I think i might drop them and add another group of genestealers. Its hard to fit the Tyrannofex in at 1000pts, especially the Rupture Cannon. Might add some venom cannon harpies or hive guard going forward.

Xenith · November 21, 2017

I kind of like list A if you swap one prime for another carnifex or something. Venomthropes are decent with Jormungandr, as they would be targeted first.

BrassClaw · December 22, 2017

Ok fellow bug heads

So like i said, I'm slowly building up lists to 2500pts, so here are the 1500pts lists

LIST A:

Battalion Detachment

Hive Fleet: Jormungandr
+ HQ +

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 112pts]: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws, The Maw-claws of Thyrax, Toxin Sacs

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 112pts]: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs

+ Elites +

Venomthropes [9 PL, 180pts]: 6x Venomthrope

+ Troops +

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 166pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 166pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 166pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

+ Heavy Support +

Carnifexes [12 PL, 210pts]
. Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms
. Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms

Screamer-Killers [12 PL, 220pts]
. Screamer-Killer: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands
. Screamer-Killer: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands

ARMY TOTAL: 1498

LIST B:

Battalion Detachment

Hive Fleet: Kronos

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 198pts]: 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 107pts]: Deathspitter, Rending Claws, The Maw-claws of Thyrax

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 107pts]: Boneswords, Deathspitter

+ Troops +

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 160pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 160pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

+ Heavy Support +

Carnifexes [12 PL, 210pts]
. Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms
. Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms

Tyrannofex [11 PL, 238pts]: Rupture Cannon, Stinger Salvo

ARMY TOTAL:1500

LIST C:

Battalion Detachment

Hive Fleet:Behemoth

+ HQ +

Old One Eye [10 PL, 200pts]: Monstrous Scything Talons

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 114pts]: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs

+ Troops +

Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws

Genestealers [8 PL, 120pts]
. 10x Genestealer: 10x Rending Claws

Genestealers [8 PL, 120pts]
. 10x Genestealer: 10x Rending Claws

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 166pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

+ Heavy Support +

Screamer-Killers [18 PL, 342pts]
. Screamer-Killer: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
. Screamer-Killer: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
. Screamer-Killer: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

Trygon Prime [10 PL, 198pts]: Biostatic Rattle, 3x Massive Scything Talons, Scythes of Tyran

ARMY TOTAL:1500

Ok I would also like to discuss some conundrums that I have been having while list building. The first which was brought up before was anti-tank. I know nids have lack ranged anti-tank. So what are the best solutions? My first thought went to Harpies, you can build them with 2 heavy venomcannnons and pump out 2d3 shots, are they any good? and how much anti-tank should i be looking for?

The 2nd issue is the about Carnifexes. I'm spoiled with options. The dakka fex seems to be awesome with the ability of pumping out 24 shots. If you are going to use Old One Eye it seems to be a good idea to run other melee fexes to benefit from the alpha leader. So should I take Scream-killers? or run melee regular fexes? and how to thornbacks fit in this?

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