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Guilliman vs. Mortarion


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#76
Mellow

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Well Daemon Fulgrim does have 4 swords. That's going to be impossible to block with a single sword. So Guilliman automatically loses any duel. The only chance to defeat such an opponent would be firepower. At a distance. Lots of it.

I'm not sure why Guilliman shows signs of ageing. He's only 200 odd years old by the HH and then another 100 odd by the end of the "failed" Crusade. Which using my incredible odd calculations makes him ... 300 odd.

#77
Ishagu

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It's not age, it's stress.

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#78
Retconned Legion

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Well Daemon Fulgrim does have 4 swords. That's going to be impossible to block with a single sword. So Guilliman automatically loses any duel. The only chance to defeat such an opponent would be firepower. At a distance. Lots of it.

I'm not sure why Guilliman shows signs of ageing. He's only 200 odd years old by the HH and then another 100 odd by the end of the "failed" Crusade. Which using my incredible odd calculations makes him ... 300 odd.

 

To be fair the only Primarchs we've seen that are older are either Daemon Princes now, or perpetuals. Aging at 300-ish could be the norm for Primarchs.


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#79
Caius Tadius

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It's not age, it's stress.

The burden of the Imperium is a heavy one.

 

Think he is showing a bit of age. His hair is losing a bit of its color. The recent artwork makes it a rather starchy, dull, yellow rather than the vivid blonde that he had during the Horus Heresy lol


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#80
Ishagu

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Yeah he's worn out with the weight of the Imperium.
Age and stress have similar effects on the body.

-~Ishagu~-


#81
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Maybe the Primarchs were supposed to get old after a span of time to ensure they were good enough to win the great Crusade, and then after that they would expire. Kind of like what happened with the thunder warriors but with a natural aging as opposed to cancer

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#82
Caius Tadius

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A little off topic but this is actually a pretty interesting subject. So we know that Guilliman can suffer the effects of extended stress as stated above. Makes you wonder what other kind of human characteristics Primarchs are capable of taking on such as psychological disorders and the like. 

 

Vulkan's mind was broken in Unremembered Empire after escaping Curze and Guilliman essentially had to lock him in a medical lab to prevent him from hurting himself or others. 


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#83
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I keep saying this.... as far as a Primarch's age showing... anyone read the HH novel where Horus leads his kin to the cave on a planet that the Emperor took them all to? None of them remember it well, but Horus does. Something in the cave allows Horus to travel to the warp and wail on Daemons.

 

I suspect the daemons allow him to feel like he is the ruler of all things in the warp. He launches a campaign that lasts... a really long time in the warp. When Horus is satisfied he's shown everyone in the warp whose boss, he emerges from the warp in the cave. He is shocked everyone is still there.... because to him it's been a very long time (can't remember how long but it's at least as long as Guilliman's been around). 

 

Horus' people are equally shocked because to them he was only gone a few hours. But they see he has aged... grey hair, wrinkles, etc. 

 

As far as the battle between the Fulgrim and Guilliman I think it's become a silly argument and people are taking too many pot shots at each other. Please stop doing this because it'll force the closure of an otherwise fun discussion. :)

 

My personal bias aside, I don't think Guilliman could straight up beat Fulgrim.... I don't really think at this point anyone save... Angron could? He is well into daemonhood and I believe there is a price for that as well.

 

Phil Kelly had a great segment on the codex discussion last Friday on Warhammer TV on Twitch. He said Guilliman had to be the one they brought back. They weighed this heavily when comparing him to other Primarchs. Even Phil mentions that other Primarchs may have been better at outright annihilating Deathguard and potentially beating Mortarion, but to paraphrase Phil he went on to say they had to bring someone back that could literally turn the burning Imperium around to some degree. It had to be a primarch that could re-invest and add vitality to the Imperium as a whole. He referred to Guilliman as a planner, and a thinker. He referenced the Khan as the one that might have been a strong match for Mortarian, but Guilliman was the obvious choice when the question is: who could turn the Imperium as a whole from the brink of destruction?

 

I know some people won't like that answer. That's fine, but I'm fine knowing that is Guilliman's place in the grand scheme of things.


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#84
Slave to Darkness

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Even though I have a severe dislike for Ultramarines (die hard Word Bearer at heart) I can get behind the idea of Guilliman being the obvious choice to bring back. Dorn would have been a good choice IMHO, but he would probably turn every planet into a fortress lol. 

 

I think Guilliman is the right choice. *vomits*

 

Personally, I would have Russ come back first, just to see him go nuts at the state of the Imperium, gets drunk and storms into the personal chambers of a High Lord of Terra and pisses on his shoes then leaves to kick Mortarions  teeth in! :lol:


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#85
Caius Tadius

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Yeah, the Imperium didn't really need any more warriors to fight for it (they have billions of those). What the the Imperium needed was someone who could competently rule the Empire because the High Lords of Terra, the Inquisition, the Ecclesiarchy and the Mechanicus were all doing their best to run it into the ground.


Edited by Caius Tadius, 17 July 2017 - 11:03 PM.

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#86
DuskRaider

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Guilliman is the most politically minded, the architect as it were. Who else (that isn't dead, poor Sanguinius) can claim that? No one liked Dorn, he was a jerk. The Khan was an outsider (which is why Pre-Heresy he and Mortarion hit it off so well), the Lion was paranoid to the point of destroying his own Legion, Russ was never a politician or statesman, Vulkan... maybe. But his humanity may have gotten in the way of really difficult decisions. That leaves Guilliman. It's the most logical choice.


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#87
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Prot, you forget that after Horus emerged from the RoC he essentially took a deep breath and smiled which removed his signs of "age"

I suspect that whilst he may have been there for example for centuries the effect was more based from exposure to the Warp rather then age.




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