10 man john woo plasma vanguards

[chapter master 454]

So as of recent I have realised for vanguards, they can take dual pistols and this means for 32 points per vanguard (320 for the squad) you can have a squad drop in when you like and dump 20 odd plasma shots into whatever you like. Against most tanks you will kill them on statistics if you overcharge I believe, though that may include the captain you can back them up with (ether 93pts or get spicey and add a combi-plasma for 15pts? I think for those extra 2 plasma overcharge).

 

The main question is how viable would such a squad be? After all, if you support with captain then overheat is not much of a worry and these guys hit fairly hard considering they rattle out 2 plasma shots a turn at 12" which if we could carry plasma guns we would but sadly can't. These guys can even charge after shooting to continue the attacks then if enemy doesn't fall back then you can to use your fly keyword to unleash more fire power.

 

A quick rundown of the units benefits: Will quickly kill off a high armour target fairly well, even tougher targets and even then will seriously maim them (stats I believe make a full salvo leave even a land raider at deaths door).

 

Thoughts on this rather awesome but odd idea of a vanguard squad.

[Brother Aiwass]

Predators and rhinos are certainly dead, the landraider would take the khornate number of 8,88888 damage, leaving him with about half of the wounds remaining. I'd say go for it, as it looks extremely cool, and have a nice feeling about Destroyer Squads heritage. If you don't take the captain, you'll be losing 3-4 dudes the first turn you overcharge unless you roll for each one separately.

[hivey]

Even better than using fly to fall back and shoot: stay in combat, tying up the enemy unit, and still be able to shoot all those plasma shots at the unit youre fighting

[chapter master 454]

Even better than using fly to fall back and shoot: stay in combat, tying up the enemy unit, and still be able to shoot all those plasma shots at the unit youre fighting

 

Always an option but after 20 overcharged plasma shots then followed by the best part of 21 basic attacks, I believe it follows the adage of 'you shouldn't of been fighting it to begin with!'

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Never underestimate the usefulness of the desperation play.  Charging something you can't possibly kill is a useful tactic for delaying enemy movement, forcing an enemy unit to Fall Back away from an objective, or removing that unit's ability to shoot and/or charge for a turn.

[autek mor]

but then most likely you will be revenge killed afterwards. the idea does sound to play though, i admit that this concept would never have crossed my mind.

[danyboy]

This is amazing! Will certainly test it! :)

[ONDIG]

Yes this sounds GREAT! I will also give it a go just a couple times...till it gets FAQ'D!

Also it appears to me that you could also continue to blaze away in CC w/ the Plasma pistols.YIKES.

Edited August 7, 2017 by ONDIG

[Death Dealer 101]

The funny thing is even at 320 points for the squad they are still better than equivalent number of plasma inceptors as they have more shots, more wounds and better combat ability.

[Alcyon]

I hadn't thought of the comparison, but yes, they do seem better than Plasma Inceptors, which is funny. Current competitive lists are running (much cheaper) Scion squads with 2x Plasma gun 1x Plasma Pistol to deep strike, which is quite good; if we can get 20 Plasma Pistols in someone's backline, that actually does seem pretty strong even at 32pts a pop. I would consider maybe taking some Storm Shields in there to make them a tad more survivable... Or if you're lucky enough to be Blood Angels, Dark Angels or Blood Angels, use a Librarian with jump packs to give them a 4+ invuln or -1 to hit them.

[Death Dealer 101]

Considering fully tooled up expensive marine squads like 20x plasma pistols have never been great due to their survivability compared to points ratio being bad it really goes to show how much inceptors missed the mark and how much cheaper they need to be to be decent

[chapter master 454]

Considering fully tooled up expensive marine squads like 20x plasma pistols have never been great due to their survivability compared to points ratio being bad it really goes to show how much inceptors missed the mark and how much cheaper they need to be to be decent

 

Survivability is an odd beast, because if there isn't anything left to fight back you are infinite durable. A crux of 40k is the ever present 'alpha strike' which is the same for a lot of armies, especially at low point range. The John Woo squad can very easily wipe out of leave remains of ineffective squads with their descent onto the battlefield.

 

However I do agree GW have inflated points to a silly amount for some things. I often understand some decisions but interceptors are a unit type that not anyone has value in: Harass. We don't want to harass units, we want them dead because dead units give KP, don't shoot back and importantly don't have obsec. Their concept is nice, execution is poor which is compounded by their small squad sizes.

 

I suppose at least not all primaris units are strict upgrades over the old (sometimes a good defense is a good offense)